Begbies Traynor Administrators of Torquay United.

[culmstockgull]

There doesn't seem to be anything unusual about the football creditors and nothing to suggest these weren't paid on time up to the point the club announced the intention to enter administration at which point payment to creditors will generally stop and then simply accrue. Same with utilities and inland revenue, the amounts don't suggest any build of unpaid amounts prior to the plug being pulled.

140K to inland revenue doesnt suggest a bill accrued since we went into administration, its not so much the rationale behind sorting out creditors its the costs themselves, I would love to know from the bistro how they allowed the club to run up a £2900 bill or was that just a boozy lunch for the directors paid for by the club. .

[AdrianC]

Apologies if anyone has mentioned this in any posts which I’ve missed but reading those accounts it’s not just the fans and local population of Torbay that the club needs to re-engage with it’s the (local) businesses who have been left dangling!

I wonder if under the terms of the CVA we could offer advertising / sponsorship as a means of repayment? E.g. we owe ABC Ltd £2,000, would they accept a half way line advertising board for the season?

Just thinking of ways to maximise cash flow.

[Dave]

The Bryn consortium offered for all creditors to be paid in full within 6 months of the takeover, can't see the need to complicate matters.

[exilegull]

140K to inland revenue doesnt suggest a bill accrued since we went into administration, its not so much the rationale behind sorting out creditors its the costs themselves, I would love to know from the bistro how they allowed the club to run up a £2900 bill or was that just a boozy lunch for the directors paid for by the club. .

Usual year end position owing to HMRC is around 100k, so 140k is effectively not a substantial amount more than the usual amount.

£2900 bill payable by account would suggest its for a regular ongoing service - Gary Johnson's fish suppers?

There will always be odd things in these accounts, but nothing in there screams out extravagance or neglect prior to administration.

[exilegull]

The Bryn consortium offered for all creditors to be paid in full within 6 months of the takeover, can't see the need to complicate matters.

Presumably season ticket sales are generating significant cashflow in the period.

[wbw]

The list of outstanding creditors just shows how badly the club was being run and running costs were not only out of control but there was no control, £2900 to a bistro in paignton ( perhaps someone could explain that one), £990 pounds to an embroidery service ( perhaps as part of his ludicrous contract johnson had to have his initials embroidered on his pyjames), 7000 to a accountants company in newton abbot( I thought thats what we had mel Hayman for) over 140K to the inland revenue, water and electricity that havent been paid for goodness knows how long and certainly long before feburary when osborne pulled the plug. Many thousands owed to clubs we took loan players from like colchester and fleetwood, small outfits like ourselves that need every pound that is owed to them, I am surprised with our track record anyone will loan us a player. Torquay United wasnt being run on any business model that I understand but by people who realised these costs could never be paid but continued spending anyway.

To be fair, there is very little in there that suggests a poorly run or extravagant club.
To take a couple of examples;
Limited companies have to use the services of an external independent auditor to submit their annual accounts.
Who did you think does the badge work on shirts for own use and resale to supporters?
HMRC amount is not huge in terms of months, maybe 2 months at most.
Football club creditors are what you would expect. Very few, if any, club to club payments are made up front. Most are scheduled over a season.
Electricity costs for floodlights are horrendous, so don't think that amount is particularly excessive.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Osborne’s tenure, the club was certainly not being run in a way that couldn't be covered by his cash injections, until the plug was pulled.

[brucie]

But it wasnt his money was it

[Southampton Gull]

To be fair, there is very little in there that suggests a poorly run or extravagant club.
To take a couple of examples;
Limited companies have to use the services of an external independent auditor to submit their annual accounts.
Who did you think does the badge work on shirts for own use and resale to supporters?
HMRC amount is not huge in terms of months, maybe 2 months at most.
Football club creditors are what you would expect. Very few, if any, club to club payments are made up front. Most are scheduled over a season.
Electricity costs for floodlights are horrendous, so don't think that amount is particularly excessive.

Whatever the rights and wrongs of Osborne’s tenure, the club was certainly not being run in a way that couldn't be covered by his cash injections, until the plug was pulled.

Losses averaging £20k/week suggest you're talking your usual nonsense. Thank God the accountant has left the building

[wbw]

Strange isn't it? 3 or 4 other posters make similar observations regarding the creditors list, none of which do you chose respond to.

[bobbytanz1963]

Losses averaging £20k/week suggest you're talking your usual nonsense. Thank God the accountant has left the building

The club had an accountant ? Next you will be saying there was a club secretary who monitored emails !!

[Southampton Gull]

Strange isn't it? 3 or 4 other posters make similar observations regarding the creditors list, none of which do you chose respond to.

Nothing strange about it at all. Yours was the only one spouting nonsense

[Southampton Gull]

The club had an accountant ? Next you will be saying there was a club secretary who monitored emails !!

Albeit an incompetent one so an incompetent secretary shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone

[wbw]

There doesn't seem to be anything unusual about the football creditors and nothing to suggest these weren't paid on time up to the point the club announced the intention to enter administration at which point payment to creditors will generally stop and then simply accrue. Same with utilities and inland revenue, the amounts don't suggest any build of unpaid amounts prior to the plug being pulled.

[UnitedinDevon]

Strange isn't it? 3 or 4 other posters make similar observations regarding the creditors list, none of which do you chose respond to.

because yours was drivel

[exilegull]

Accountants account for the figures and prepare the financial statements, they don’t set the budgets and make the spending decisions, the board of directors and management do that.

This should be taken in no way as a defence of Osborne, that is absolutely not the purpose - but there remains very little evidence that on the non-footballing side, there was any substantial extravagance. So the losses of 20k a week mostly came from having a playing budget well in excess of the capacity of the club.