TUFC Fans Forum - 7pm Monday 5th August @ Plainmoor

[sandowngull]

Thought it was a really good transparent insight into the financials and running of the club from the Bryn group before the share issue info.

The wage bill last year and staff bill slashed and expected income this year higher to hopefully break even. AS youd expect, an empahsis on the matchday experience and eeking out extra £'s from those attending. To be fair to the Bryn group (or Micheal) i think it was not about squeezing every last £ out of everyone attending but offering a longer duration experience that makes everyone come back but you certainly did see the limitations of the stadium crop up in them attempting to do so. Not sure anyone asked about moving to a new stadium!!

At the end of the day though, its what goes on on the pitch that will draw punters in. No point having a great after match band in Boots if youve just got thumped 3-0 and no one ever goes to a match to see what the half time entertainment is. If i understood correctly almost £1M on playing budget last year compared to £500k this year and no doubt (whatever the results) more value for money this season even if only on the effort front.

As for the share issue, I will do it but interested to see the prospectus and how you can invest (basically give it away). Im interested in the £1k option but not up front so hope theyve thought about that. Otherwise itll be half that.

Hi Numpte

I'm Matt Gorman, the chap who was sat at the end of the table at the forum trying to explain the Community Share Issue (CSI)..

It's great to see that you are interested in the CSI. It really is a great way of fans (through the trust) becoming part of the club and providing an important injection of capital at the same time to help the club move forward. Thank you for raising a question on the CSI. As you can imagine, there will be a lot of these and I (together with some of my other TUST Board colleagues) will do our best to answer these as we go along. We also hope to make a record of these on the CSI landing page when launched, by way of a reference so thank you for taking the time to ask this. I will take the opportunity if you dont mind just to provide the TUST email address of [email protected] if you or anyone else has any specific queries on the CSI. Whilst I will do my best to monitor the board (whilst doing my day job!), the email address can also be used if you have any specific or personal queries.

I also want to be open with you and say, those of us involved with the CSI are all on a learning curve, so I will always be honest and say if I don't know the answer to a question, but I will find out.

The simple answer to the question you have posed at the moment is that payment through the platform we are using for the CSI (crowdfunder) will only accept single payments as oppose to a number of regular payments. Part of the issue is the offer will be open for a fixed period of time (we anticipate 4 weeks) and the terms of whether or not it is successful will be dependent on the sum raised within that timeframe. There is the option to extend the offer if necessary, but in reality it will not be to a period of time that will accept regular payments. Also, being completely honest we are trying to keep the administration of the offer as straightforward as possible.

You do raise a good point and it is something we are looking at to see if there are any workarounds. We fully appreciate that not everyone can afford to invest into the CSI or indeed at the levels they would desire due to other pressures on finances at this time.

I look forward to hopefully seeing you name on the CSI subscribers list in due course (although your proper name I guess!!)

Best Wishes

Matt Gorman

[MoxGull2502]

Really goes to show what a disasterous job GJ and co did with assembling that squad over the past few seasons. Must have been far in excess of most teams in this league. How he lasted so long is beyond me. Anyway so fortunate we have been able to start again and rebuild the club properly.

Further proof he took the club we love for a ride…but still some idiots thought he was best equipped to do the Shite job he duly did .

[CornishGull]

It's possible, I suppose, that the trust might attempt another issue in the future, and that could be where your other £500 could be directed, hit as far as I know TUST have not said anything about future fundraising attempt. I hope there's something in the prospectus about this because it'd be a bad look if they get 100k now and then try to get another 200k in a year's time of they don't mention it beforehand.

TUST have said in the recent past (can't remember exactly when but it was around the time of the Bryn take over) that they would need to go back to the fan base to raise funds for future infrastructure projects, so yes I would think this is just the beginning.
Bryn have stated that the long term aim is for them to withdraw leaving TUFC completely fan-owned, that would inevitably mean TUST having to raise funds through their membership.

[sandowngull]

I'd like to understand more about the share issue and why it's shares with TUST and not TUFC itself?

It would be also interesting to know what the £100k would be used for.

Hi Midlandgull

As per my earlier post, I am Matt Gorman (the chap that presented on behalf of TUST at the forum). Great questions and I will try and answer these for you if that helps? Apologies, being concise was never my strong point!

Why is the investment in TUST not TUAFC Ltd

As you may be aware, TUST have been working closely with the Bryn Consortium right from the start of their tenure as owners. Indeed, the relationship with certain members commenced well before Bryn were given the keys to the club. The consortium are all fans and ultimately they are keen to build a sustainable football club which in time they see as being potentially "fully owned" by the fans (using a similar model to Exeter City). Given the status of TUST as a Community Benefit Society, the vehicle for ownership is already in place. Therefore it is envisaged by the Club that the Community Share Issue (CSI) will be the first step on the path to building the TUST shareholding towards achieving that end goal.

Whilst there are no immediate future plans for a further fundraising, it is likely there will be such opportunities again down the line. As I alluded to on Monday evening, it could be that TUST look to raise capital and invest into the club for a specific purpose i.e. inject capital into the youth set-up or training facilities (purely by way of an example I might add!!). Ultimately the TUST Board will be guided by its members and will be very mindful of the needs of the club which as we have seen very clearly so far, will no doubt be be very transparent.

Indeed, if the club needed a further capital raise for future financing needs it’s easier to allow TUST to follow its money with a further fund raise / share issue vs consultations with a long tail of minority shareholders. Whilst the club continues to be majority owned by the Consortium, TUST provides an efficient and structured means by which the Consortium can ensure that fans are involved in key decisions versus having to consult with hundreds/thousands of small shareholders.

We understand that not everyone is a member of TUST and for whatever reason, certain people do not want to become a member either because of views they have or indeed because of affordability and that’s naturally a personal decision. However, hopefully the current TUST board are (by way of their actions) demonstrating how important TUST can be to the club as we move forward from here. Indeed, our membership is currently at around 875 members and growing which is excellent. The club are seeing the benefits of this enhanced membership as we work with them on various projects which are involving members as volunteers. This is saving valuable resources which can then be better deployed elsewhere such as on the football pitch which is of course the main attraction for all of us as supporters.

Coming back to the question again, the club are offering heritage protection rights if a certain sum of money is raised and this valuable protection would not be available to individual shareholders. Following on from the previous regime, the ability to secure our tenure as a club at our spiritual home of Plainmoor is a huge thing and this together with other forms of protection will be enshrined within the Articles of Association for all to see, but only if we hit our £100,000 target!

A further seat on the club board is being offered to further enhance the voice of the fans with TUST having the honour and privilege to fulfil this through the ultimate appointment of 2 directors. These places will be for an intial fixed period, but the TUST membership will have the ability to nominate and vote on future directorships. Whilst Nick Brodrick as TUST Chairman will rightfully take the first position, the second directorship will follow a nomination process by TUST members.

Finally, the cost and administration involved with issuing shares to individual shareholders directly by the club under company law would be too expensive and impractical for the club whereas Community shares issued by a Community Benefit Society (TUST) are easier to issue and administer.

Ultimately, I guess the answer to this question is perhaps more a matter for the Club than TUST, i.e. it is the Club's decision to support the CSI rather than offering individuals direct shares in the club.
Certainly, if you or indeed anyone else is looking to invest a significant amount of money then we would be happy to pass you on to the Consortium to discuss this directly.

What is now hopefully obvious to all supporters is that TUFC are once again united and all stakeholders are pulling in the same direction again. Ultimately everybody wants the best for the club and there is no desire to compete against each other which is fantastic and I strongly believe we will all reap the rewards for years to come.

What will the £100k be used for?

Another excellent question..

The Consortium have essentially “wiped the slate clean” by dealing with previous creditors and other liabilities. This has utilised a large element of their capital injection and it is therefore prudent (and indeed baked into the cashflow) to generate additional capital from the CSI to assist with ongoing requirements. So, to be frank the funds will be going straight into the TUAFC Ltd cashflow pot to potentially assist Paul and Neil with the football side of things. It may also be deployed in other areas to further stabilise the club financially moving forward such as investment into the commercial side of the club which in turn will hopefully generate further cashflow and profitability.

From a process perspective, all funds raised from the CSI will be paid to TUST and we will then make payment to the club in exchange for shares that will be issued at a set price (correlated to the value used for the Bryn purchase of shares in the club). The amount paid to the club will be the full amount raised less any direct costs encountered with the share issue.

I hope I have been able to answer your questions clearly enough. If not, then please let us know at [email protected]

Best Wishes
Matt Gorman

[sandowngull]

Preface this with "This is what the prospectus is for" but to me it seems fairly obvious. The £100k is being used to buy another seat on the board. So that means that trust will have two seats, and therefore more of a say in the running of the club at boardroom level. It's called a community share issue in part because the community is buying a share; they (we) will pool money in order to have enough to pay what the Bryn Consortium are asking for.

You are probably able to buy shares in the club itself, directly from (or through) the Bryn Consortium; they have the ability to sell some of their holding to individuals - they've alluded to it in the past as the trust spokesman on Monday said the same (in that if you have fifty grand to put towards the club you're better off speaking to Michael W and the crew.

Somebody else (don't remember who and it's hard to see on my phone) asked if there will be the option to pay half now and half later. I'm not involved in this at all (beyond being a trust member) but I strongly suspect that the answer to this will be No, as they need to get the readies in so that they're able to give it to the owners. As reasonable as the consortium has been so far, I cant imagine they'll take it on trust (ah-hah) that well give them £X later on. It's possible, I suppose, that the trust might attempt another issue in the future, and that could be where your other £500 could be directed, hit as far as I know TUST have not said anything about future fundraising attempt. I hope there's something in the prospectus about this because it'd be a bad look if they get 100k now and then try to get another 200k in a year's time of they don't mention it beforehand.

Good Evening happytorq

Many Thanks for your excellent post (very early) this morning. You've done my job for me with that response, so thank you!

I am trying to answer some of the questions as they come up, so forgive me if I end up repeating or referring to earlier posts I have replied to. Hopefully the responses I have given to "Numpte" and "Midlandgull" will also add further to your posting.

Thank you again for your support

Matt Gorman

[sandowngull]

A further seat on the club board is being offered to further enhance the voice of the fans with TUST having the honour and privilege to fulfil this through the ultimate appointment of 2 directors. These places will be for an intial fixed period, but the TUST membership will have the ability to nominate and vote on future directorships. Whilst Nick Brodrick as TUST Chairman will rightfully take the first position, the second directorship will follow a nomination process by TUST members.

Having re-read my earlier post, I just wanted to clarify this particular section further by detailing the wording that is likely to appear in the CSI Prospectus around "CAN I VOTE FOR THE TUST REPRESENTATIVE TO SIT ON TUFC BOARD? "

The first Non-Executive Director position on the TUAFC Ltd board representing TUST will be agreed by the elected TUST Board. This is to ensure continuity of the significant work and progress made over the past few months in conjunction with the Bryn Consortium. It is imperative to build on the existing relationships in place and for communication channels with the TUST board to be clear from outset.
The appointment of a 2nd position on the TUAFC Ltd board (assuming the minimum community share issue investment level is met) will be through a nominee and election process. Nominees will be invited and a candidate will be elected by the TUST board based on an objective analysis of the skill set and attributes of each nominee against pre-defined criteria.

The appointment to the TUAFC Ltd board will be for a minimum 1-year period with re-elections made at the time of the TUST AGM each year. The expectation is however that each TUST appointed director will serve at least 2 consecutive terms so they can build a good understanding of the Club’s internal dynamics and decision-making and crucially, build good relationships with fellow Directors and staff members.

I hope that is helpful

Matt Gorman

[numpte]

I look forward to hopefully seeing you name on the CSI subscribers list in due course (although your proper name I guess!!)

Best Wishes

Matt Gorman

Thanks MAtt, you will 100% see my name on it. Interesting on the platform and id suggest somewhat limiting if no other entity has placed a time limit on the fundraising. A while back i looked at the ecfc membership and although its a different model (because they are 100% fan owned) they did have an elevated monthly membership to get to the £1k plus area level of investment and all the things that went with it. (like director of the day). We already have a yearly subscription to TUST, so presumably it could be tweaked or a second subscription opened up to a monthly option. Trying not to be too critical to people doing this voluntarily but id suggest its limiting an alternate and expanded source of £'s. You would get say £100 a month for 10 months from me if that was an option and im sure others might go for £25 a month for 10 months, then at the end of that time period you commit the £100k + to the club. If the club are not imposing the time limit then what is the rush?

Good job though!

[happytorq]

A while back i looked at the ecfc membership and although its a different model (because they are 100% fan owned) they did have an elevated monthly membership to get to the £1k plus area level of investment and all the things that went with it. (like director of the day). We already have a yearly subscription to TUST, so presumably it could be tweaked or a second subscription opened up to a monthly option. Trying not to be too critical to people doing this voluntarily but id suggest its limiting an alternate and expanded source of £'s. You would get say £100 a month for 10 months from me if that was an option and im sure others might go for £25 a month for 10 months, then at the end of that time period you commit the £100k + to the club. If the club are not imposing the time limit then what is the rush?

As you say, ECFC is fully fan-owned, and that means that have more latitude with how they look to bring in money. At that point the £x per month is a funding model rather than a capital raise model, or at least that's how it appears to me. If I had to guess, there may be legal issues with a subscription approach if the club is owned by other entities and that's why we're not doing it yet - it would be hard to say where that money is going. The CSI is simply "Give us this money, please, and we'll do *that* with it"

Long term I suspect continued payments are going to become a more real option for us - you can't imagine that the Bryn Consortium want to own the club forever, and we've seen those people up the road make a good go of full fan ownership. Think I had said when That Other Owner buggerd off that if you have a model whereby you can pay twenty quid a month, and you can find a thousand people to do it, you're well on the way towards a quarter mill a year in 'additional' revenue. It seems to me (somebody viewing this from afar with possibly an inflated sense of my own intelligence ) that this is probably what the current owners hope to put us on the path towards. The presentation from monday was tremendous for a lot of reasons, but chiefly in that we finally had some transparency about what things actually cost and what the plan is to get us close to sustainability. The real numbers show the thin edge that we've been on for so long and it also go a long way to explaining why so many clubs outside of the top two division are only one or two bad decisions aways from a brown-coloured creek.

I've long held that 'sustainability' doesn't necessarily mean profitable; more that you have an amount of money that you can afford to lose, and in a fan ownership model that is more agreeable because you don't have 'investors' expecting a return.

Anyway, I've waffeld on enough- sandowngull/Matt; appreciate the responses that you've dropped in here. I will be getting involved in the CSI even from over here and hope that everybody concerned will continue with the great communication