I totally agree with Paul Wotton this afternoon was frustrating in the extreme.
Against a team who have accumulated just 1 point this month we lacked ideas, moved the ball sideways time after time and gave their keeper a very quiet afternoon.
I would like to raise 3 subjects for discussion.
Can I preface my comments by saying 13 points from 18 (72%) is a good haul with a new team.
Does Paul Wotton watch Match of the Day? Every week you see a very clever Set Piece which results in a goal. We are allowed to copy the Premier League guys so why dont we? I see, as in previous seasons, a complete lack of imagination at corners especially, at free kicks and in a game plan designed to appeal to our strengths not our weaknesses.
In the second half after Cody Cooke was substituted every cross from the right was a high ball to Ash and Seymour surely the 2 smallest players in the squad. This does not make sense.
Perhaps Paul would like to invite fans to submit their to best set pieces of the month for his consideration. A free kick as scored by Aveley today is a scoring opportunity. A corner should be but we are too predictable. Even a throw in can be a scoring opportunity high up the pitch.
Certain dead ball specialists like Armani Little score a lot of goals with free kicks but you have to spend a lot of time working on it. Do we? I doubt it.
In sport, any sport, you have to find an edge, that something that gives you an advantage over you opponent.
Discuss.
Set Pieces, Strategy, Game Plan
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UnitedinDevon
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Judging by the moronic comments I heard today I wouldn't want any fan suggestions, I'll leave the tactics to the manager
Our corners are night and day from last season, mussa and Hasani can put a good one in
Pointless discussion regarding free kicks specifically today, we didn't have one in a position like Aveley!
Our corners are night and day from last season, mussa and Hasani can put a good one in
Pointless discussion regarding free kicks specifically today, we didn't have one in a position like Aveley!
What absolute nonsense suggesting fans should submit their free kick and set piece routines. That would just Result in a deluge of fanciful routines with no forethought or tactics with fans expecting more goals. Leave it to the manager. That’s what he paid for.
We must stand in the same area, I heard the same moronic comments and shouts, the worst was when Threlkeld received the ball with his back to the Aveley goal, facing our own goal, with an Aveley player touch tight behind him, so couldn't turn, there was no sideways options , so did the absolute basic thing of playing the way he was facing, only to be met with howls, of 'no, play it forwards' to which my own reaction was, how could he from that position ?UnitedinDevon wrote: ↑31 Aug 2024, 20:20 Judging by the moronic comments I heard today I wouldn't want any fan suggestions, I'll leave the tactics to the manager
Pointless discussion regarding free kicks specifically today, we didn't have one in a position like Aveley!
Your right about their free kick, I'd also add the Aveley player has hit a 1 in 100 inch perfect free kick, if he'd have taken it another 99 times wouldn't get anywhere near.
Formerly known as forevertufc
Portugulls posts and opinions are always heartfelt, genuine and honest, so my post in response is in no way meant to show any disrespect.
There is no comparison that can be made between watching the premier league on match of the day, and being a professional manager in the NLS. For a start your premier league manger has a specialist coach for everything, from those who specialise in set plays, to injury prevention, diet and lifestyle and beyond, PW doesn't have that luxury.
Your NLS manager doesn't have the benefit of working with players regardless of nationality who are at the top of the game, most of the teams in the top half of the premier league are packed full of international players, who've been semi-finalists, finalists, winners of the world cup and continental championships, they are so because, their speed of thought, decision making, technical ability, consistency, athleticism are attributes where they score 7/10 or above, so the coaching staff can work on fancy free kick routines , and take players out of their comfort zones knowing some where along the line during the match they'll execute well, as seen by Aston Villa for their first goal yesterday.
Don't get me wrong all players in the NLS have ability, they are good players, you don't even get to that level with out some form of ability, but they are limited in one or more, in some cases all of the attributes I list above that's why they are in the lower reaches of the game , managers and coaching staff at this level know they have to keep things more simple, trying fancy set plays would be very much like asking a baby to run, isn't going to end well, trying out smart the opposition by switching tactics isn't going to work out either, you have to play to your strengths and hope that's enough to take home the points.
Your right about having an edge, part of the problem yesterday, was crossing into the box was too slow, when it's delayed you give the opposition defence time to hold their shape, and their keeper to get set, for crossing and set plays to be effective, you have to try and force defenders out of sharp/position, or force them to defend facing their own goal, or draw the keeper out. PW will have seen it, will work on it.
Football fans are knowledgeable when it comes to football, but to a point, we have a professional manager and coaching set up, with the qualifications and experience of playing the game professionally, there's nothing we as fans can teach or add to what they know already, thankfully in PW we have someone who does respect our knowledge, often says there is lots to work on and fans can and will see it, unlike GJ who had a smug arrogance, of I'm the professional manager, I'm the dog that wags the tail , what do you know, I'm grateful for that.
We as fans have to recognise, our squad only met in late June many haven't played together before, there's in-experience in this squad, they will grow, they will get better, we as fans just need a bit of patience and to stick with it, would it surprise any of us, if our team is anywhere near the promotion picture in the new year if some more money was been available to help over line ?
There is no comparison that can be made between watching the premier league on match of the day, and being a professional manager in the NLS. For a start your premier league manger has a specialist coach for everything, from those who specialise in set plays, to injury prevention, diet and lifestyle and beyond, PW doesn't have that luxury.
Your NLS manager doesn't have the benefit of working with players regardless of nationality who are at the top of the game, most of the teams in the top half of the premier league are packed full of international players, who've been semi-finalists, finalists, winners of the world cup and continental championships, they are so because, their speed of thought, decision making, technical ability, consistency, athleticism are attributes where they score 7/10 or above, so the coaching staff can work on fancy free kick routines , and take players out of their comfort zones knowing some where along the line during the match they'll execute well, as seen by Aston Villa for their first goal yesterday.
Don't get me wrong all players in the NLS have ability, they are good players, you don't even get to that level with out some form of ability, but they are limited in one or more, in some cases all of the attributes I list above that's why they are in the lower reaches of the game , managers and coaching staff at this level know they have to keep things more simple, trying fancy set plays would be very much like asking a baby to run, isn't going to end well, trying out smart the opposition by switching tactics isn't going to work out either, you have to play to your strengths and hope that's enough to take home the points.
Your right about having an edge, part of the problem yesterday, was crossing into the box was too slow, when it's delayed you give the opposition defence time to hold their shape, and their keeper to get set, for crossing and set plays to be effective, you have to try and force defenders out of sharp/position, or force them to defend facing their own goal, or draw the keeper out. PW will have seen it, will work on it.
Football fans are knowledgeable when it comes to football, but to a point, we have a professional manager and coaching set up, with the qualifications and experience of playing the game professionally, there's nothing we as fans can teach or add to what they know already, thankfully in PW we have someone who does respect our knowledge, often says there is lots to work on and fans can and will see it, unlike GJ who had a smug arrogance, of I'm the professional manager, I'm the dog that wags the tail , what do you know, I'm grateful for that.
We as fans have to recognise, our squad only met in late June many haven't played together before, there's in-experience in this squad, they will grow, they will get better, we as fans just need a bit of patience and to stick with it, would it surprise any of us, if our team is anywhere near the promotion picture in the new year if some more money was been available to help over line ?
Formerly known as forevertufc
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Taelee73
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Sometimes it’s speed of though.
I think I posted on here that players are thinking of the pass to make rather than just passing, and by then the moment has gone. Hopefully in time the passing and the players movement will come naturally as they understand each other better. We have to remember these players have still only been together for 2 or 3 months, some fans need patience.
We sit a couple of rows behind the dugout, Wotton sees what we do, he was exasperated at some of the decision making.
The 2 free kicks that were frustrating to me were one where we had two players standing over the ball just outside the box, not an opposition player within 20 yards and they didn’t play the quick short one. Wotton stood shaking his head as he had seen it, like I say, quick minds. The other was Mussa, I like him, but that free kick miles over was frustrating, as it was all rushed and no one talked about the options. I was watching Wotton as Mussa lined it up, he wasn’t giving instructions or watching, he was actually looking the other way and talking. He was obviously happy to leave it to them, and I just felt so near the end and a decent position he could have tried directing things. Not a dig, as I really like him, he is passionate, he talks and organises constantly, such a difference to Johnson and Downes who just stood there, he sees what’s not working. It must be frustrating when you’ve played 600 odd high standard games and see things the players don’t, yet.
It’s still early days, we are overachieving in our points tally in my opinion so far as this season, as this season could be seen just as one of building and stability. I would take our points total so far, I was disappointed like most others when I walked out yesterday, however it feels this team will only get better.
I think I posted on here that players are thinking of the pass to make rather than just passing, and by then the moment has gone. Hopefully in time the passing and the players movement will come naturally as they understand each other better. We have to remember these players have still only been together for 2 or 3 months, some fans need patience.
We sit a couple of rows behind the dugout, Wotton sees what we do, he was exasperated at some of the decision making.
The 2 free kicks that were frustrating to me were one where we had two players standing over the ball just outside the box, not an opposition player within 20 yards and they didn’t play the quick short one. Wotton stood shaking his head as he had seen it, like I say, quick minds. The other was Mussa, I like him, but that free kick miles over was frustrating, as it was all rushed and no one talked about the options. I was watching Wotton as Mussa lined it up, he wasn’t giving instructions or watching, he was actually looking the other way and talking. He was obviously happy to leave it to them, and I just felt so near the end and a decent position he could have tried directing things. Not a dig, as I really like him, he is passionate, he talks and organises constantly, such a difference to Johnson and Downes who just stood there, he sees what’s not working. It must be frustrating when you’ve played 600 odd high standard games and see things the players don’t, yet.
It’s still early days, we are overachieving in our points tally in my opinion so far as this season, as this season could be seen just as one of building and stability. I would take our points total so far, I was disappointed like most others when I walked out yesterday, however it feels this team will only get better.
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culmstockgull
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I hope and believe that the set pieces, strategy and game plan are disussed and practised during training, there is no requirement or need for our input ,we cannot play by committee , besides putting ten of us in a room to discuss tactics and we would still be there until doomsday and still not reach an agreement becuase we all see the game differently that is why we have a manager who has one invaluable advantage over most clubs in this league in that he can seek advice from warnock if he so requires. I personally dislike a back three which I believe only works when those three are big, super fit,
classy ball players which would be as rare as hens teeth in this league.
Yes ,our team has been thrown together late by circumstance, but you can see players in the squad that regardless of events could turn it on anywhere and in any starting eleven, I suspect our best starting team will be differnt by the new year because certain players cannot play the managers way or consistently enough even at this level.
classy ball players which would be as rare as hens teeth in this league.
Yes ,our team has been thrown together late by circumstance, but you can see players in the squad that regardless of events could turn it on anywhere and in any starting eleven, I suspect our best starting team will be differnt by the new year because certain players cannot play the managers way or consistently enough even at this level.
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Brewers boy
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Got to agree with Portugull. Our set pieces are very frustrating and unadventurous. As he says, there are many Ideas on MOTD which we could try. Yes our players are not premiership superstars, but then neither are the opposition defenders at this level. To me it seems that the set pieces are the same old thing time and time again, players in the box waiting for the cross and no running off the ball to draw defenders out of position, or time and time again high balls into the box for our two smallish strikers that are just headed out by six foot six centre halves.
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leetufc
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Have to agree, heard lots of moans yesterday when we were passing the ball around and ridiclous shouts from the stand to get it just get it forwards. Too many times last season we just aimlessly pumped it forward and lost possession, its refeshing to see us pass around from the back. Part of the problem yesterday was the passing was a bit slow, and there were times that we did go sideways rather than take the available forward option. Hopefully as the season progresses that will get improved upon.Dave wrote: ↑01 Sep 2024, 07:15 We must stand in the same area, I heard the same moronic comments and shouts, the worst was when Threlkeld received the ball with his back to the Aveley goal, facing our own goal, with an Aveley player touch tight behind him, so couldn't turn, there was no sideways options , so did the absolute basic thing of playing the way he was facing, only to be met with howls, of 'no, play it forwards' to which my own reaction was, how could he from that position ?
Your right about their free kick, I'd also add the Aveley player has hit a 1 in 100 inch perfect free kick, if he'd have taken it another 99 times wouldn't get anywhere near.
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leetufc
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We tried a corner routine against Dorking - I think it was Hasani playing it on the ground to Hayfield outside the box. It didnt come off but it looked pre planned, so clearly something they work on.
Some of the corners yesterday I actually think there were times they did try something planned. First half corner Palmer clearly had a deliberate plan to lose his marker and make his way to the back post, where the corner was delivered to.
We are 6 games in, I trust Wotton knows what he is doing based on the improvements I have already seen, with planning set piece routines being one of them.
Some of the corners yesterday I actually think there were times they did try something planned. First half corner Palmer clearly had a deliberate plan to lose his marker and make his way to the back post, where the corner was delivered to.
We are 6 games in, I trust Wotton knows what he is doing based on the improvements I have already seen, with planning set piece routines being one of them.
Yes the defences we're coming up against aren't full premier league superstars but nor are we here at TUFC, so when it comes to attacking set plays and free kicks it's still NLS V NLS in terms of quality.
I watched the Newcastle v Spurs game, Spurs tried a number of fancy corner routines, one where a player made a darting run from the near post to come short and laid the ball of to another player on the edge of box for instance, they also tried a number of weird and wonderful free kick routines, the point is none ended up in goal for Spurs or in fact troubled Pope in the Newcastle goal.
It doesn't matter how much you work on the training ground it's down to the players on the day, if your players are stood there like tree stumps while the corner taker can't get the ball past the first defender, or drops the ball straight into the gloves of a very grateful opposition goalkeeper your not going to threaten much.
Doesn't need over complicating, a lot of teams have a couple players stood away from the defensive line, who make a run into the box attacking the space behind the defence as the corner kick is taken, can be very effective if the ball breaks loose.
And it is totally laughable to suggest someone of PW's stature with over 500 professional games mainly at Plymouth and Southampton, playing under various managers and coaching staff, also someone who holds the UEFA 'A' coaching licence needs help from us fans, or to use Match of the day as a coaching manual, he's going to know how to coach structured set plays and free kicks.
I watched the Newcastle v Spurs game, Spurs tried a number of fancy corner routines, one where a player made a darting run from the near post to come short and laid the ball of to another player on the edge of box for instance, they also tried a number of weird and wonderful free kick routines, the point is none ended up in goal for Spurs or in fact troubled Pope in the Newcastle goal.
It doesn't matter how much you work on the training ground it's down to the players on the day, if your players are stood there like tree stumps while the corner taker can't get the ball past the first defender, or drops the ball straight into the gloves of a very grateful opposition goalkeeper your not going to threaten much.
Doesn't need over complicating, a lot of teams have a couple players stood away from the defensive line, who make a run into the box attacking the space behind the defence as the corner kick is taken, can be very effective if the ball breaks loose.
And it is totally laughable to suggest someone of PW's stature with over 500 professional games mainly at Plymouth and Southampton, playing under various managers and coaching staff, also someone who holds the UEFA 'A' coaching licence needs help from us fans, or to use Match of the day as a coaching manual, he's going to know how to coach structured set plays and free kicks.
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Blame Sky Sports and their need to produce content to keep viewers tuned in after the match has finished. Thanks to Andy Gray and his tactics truck everyone thinks they are expert now.Dave wrote: ↑02 Sep 2024, 11:23
And it is totally laughable to suggest someone of PW's stature with over 500 professional games mainly at Plymouth and Southampton, playing under various managers and coaching staff, also someone who holds the UEFA 'A' coaching licence needs help from us fans, or to use Match of the day as a coaching manual, he's going to know how to coach structured set plays and free kicks.
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portugull
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Dave thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.
I do not see it as PW needing help from us Fans but it is all about finding an edge over our opponents.
Brian Clough was great at exploiting weakness in the opposition. I do think we need to work on Free Kick and Corner routines because they do work but as you say even at Premier League level they are no guarantee of a goal.
I am going to see during September if I can spot my favourite and send it to Paul Wotton and see if he responds.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. It is worth a try.
I do not see it as PW needing help from us Fans but it is all about finding an edge over our opponents.
Brian Clough was great at exploiting weakness in the opposition. I do think we need to work on Free Kick and Corner routines because they do work but as you say even at Premier League level they are no guarantee of a goal.
I am going to see during September if I can spot my favourite and send it to Paul Wotton and see if he responds.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. It is worth a try.
No problem, as long as you realise no diss respect was meant to you, if see something I don't agree with I'm going to nothing less than honest in my response to it.portugull wrote: ↑04 Sep 2024, 21:45 Dave thank you for your comments. Much appreciated.
I do not see it as PW needing help from us Fans but it is all about finding an edge over our opponents.
Brian Clough was great at exploiting weakness in the opposition. I do think we need to work on Free Kick and Corner routines because they do work but as you say even at Premier League level they are no guarantee of a goal.
I am going to see during September if I can spot my favourite and send it to Paul Wotton and see if he responds.
Nothing ventured nothing gained. It is worth a try.
It would worth looking back at how all 3 goals v Chippenham were scored, would suggest being more threatening from corners, set pieces and crossing into the box is something PW and his coaching team have already worked on.
And best of luck, if you get a response lets us all know.
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leetufc
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Two things I noticed from the Chippenham game that seemed deliberate tactics:
Corners - Palmer was starting far out the box and running in on several occassions. Second goal was clearly a corner aimed at Palmer at the back post.
We played noticably more long balls first half than we did against Aveley, particularly aimed at Cooke on Chippenham's left hand side of defence. I am assuming PW identified a potential weakness we could exploit.
Corners - Palmer was starting far out the box and running in on several occassions. Second goal was clearly a corner aimed at Palmer at the back post.
We played noticably more long balls first half than we did against Aveley, particularly aimed at Cooke on Chippenham's left hand side of defence. I am assuming PW identified a potential weakness we could exploit.
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