Martin Ling

[leetufc]

I never said it was a huge over-achievment, but it was an over-achievment. How many of us really expected to be in the play-offs at the beginning of the season? We had a decent squad, one which was well capable of achieving a good position, but it would never have been one I would have backed to achieve a play-off place. We had a solid defence, and a few young players who were capable of good things who showed their potential (Benyon, O'Kane, Kee as well at times), and managed to get some gem loanees in towards the latter part of the season, but not a squad on a par with some others in our league who finished below us. We had a good season, others didn't, and we took advantage of that. Over the course of the season we did deserve to be in the play-offs, i never said we didn't, but we were probably six places higher than I would have thought at the beginning of the season representing over-achievement, but in a league as competitive as ours, sometimes small margins are all that matter.

[hector]

So, at the start of last season you really thought that we would be in the play offs at the end of it?

Actually, a lot of people did. We were tipped by many to be the 'dark horses' of the division because the way we ended the season before, when we had all of those clean sheets and beat Rochdale 5-0...plus the 4 wins out of 4 at the start of the season merely confirmed those forecasts.

Whilst getting Torquay to the play-offs is not that big an achievement (we have done it often enough), I think in the context of the state of the club that was Bateson's legacy and 4 players starting in the Conference 4 years ago, getting to the play-offs of League 2 was probably an over-achievement in terms of the speed in which it happened from relegation 4 years ago.

Getting to the play-offs is not an over-achievement for Torquay per se...but in the context of the previous 4 years it probably was.

[Fonda]

So, at the start of last season you really thought that we would be in the play offs at the end of it?

How many times...? I thought we'd finish top-half. We finished 2 or 3 places higher. I do not consider that a massive over-achievement.

[basil75]

Maybe people are trying to play up the shock of our achievements last year but I strongly recall many people predicting a top half finish before the start of the season, and a fair number suggesting that a play off push was a realistic aim, although automatic would be a stretch due to the small squad.

I certainly don't remember anyone predicting a relegation battle (maybe 1 or 2 but no more) and considering we don't do mid table, by not expecting a relegation battle, you are implicitly expecting a promotion push.

IIRC the beginning of last season was one of the most optimistic times I can recall for a long time among supporters.

[Scott Brehaut]

How many times...? I thought we'd finish top-half. We finished 2 or 3 places higher. I do not consider that a massive over-achievement.

But.....being pedantic. We over-achieved your aim, which was a top half finish.

Not a massive over-achievement, but an over-achievement none the less.

If the boards excpectations were the same as yours, which was a top half finish then we did over-achieve slightly on the aim, which was exactly what Simon Baker said.

[basil75]

It's incredably pedantic, finishing a couple of places above the predicted position is not overachievement - it falls into the margin of error.

If you finished 17th, but you predicted that you'd finish 18th - you wouldn't call that overachievement.

Plus, if we really want to be pedantic - 68 points would almost always give you a top half finish, not play-offs - so from a points gained perspective we did not "overachieve".

[Fonda]

I would suggest that is pedantic in the extreme.

If we did 'over-acheieve', it's probably because the official aim was to finish 22nd. Which kind of ties in to my 'Little Club' thread...

[Scott Brehaut]

I agree, it was pedantic - and was meant to be.

For what its worth, I hoped for a mid table position last season, so in my opinion we over-achieved the target I was expecting. We have no idea what the Board were expecting, but whatever that was we overachieved it!!

[royalgull]

I would suggest that is pedantic in the extreme.

If we did 'over-acheieve', it's probably because the official aim was to finish 22nd. Which kind of ties in to my 'Little Club' thread...

Was what i was thinking that statement ties perfectly with your thread Fonda.

But I still believe in house they will start the season believing we can do quite well, this is about trying to manage everyone's expectations after last season. 7th in the league FA Cup 4th round, it's not the norm for us. Martin Ling has a massive job now, there will be a smaller or reduced budget. Simon Baker alludes to the other things going on around the club which depsite having grants for some of it we'll still have to pay a wedge, he's inherited a squad of 12 realistic first team professionals. One of which in Stevens is out of contract also.

Similarly to Buckle when he got the job, Ling is going to have to rebuild the first team squad in around 4 weeks to be ready for the opening day. Not easy and if we promote a 'promotion or bust' attitude then what could be a decent season may be looked at as a failure by those terms. For me next season if i was offered 14th place, new stand built, beat Rovers and Argyle and for me Oxford away would you take that, yes please thanks very much.

Having been so grumpy yesterday and perplexed over the managers selection I can sort of see where the board is coming from and for the good of our club i sincerely hope we get the Martin Ling from Leyton Orient turning up here and the cambridge thign was more a case of bad timing on his part.

[AndyC]

Wonder if the press conference is still going on??

Or was Ling that bad the website editor fell asleep at his laptop?

[hector]

Wonder if the press conference is still going on??

Or was Ling that bad the website editor fell asleep at his laptop?

There was a little clip of it on Westcountry News. Did not show much more than about 30 seconds. Ling said that he 'ticked all the boxes' of TUFC directors. He seemed almost apologetic.

I would like to have the Cambridge debacle explained to us, to put our minds at rest but for the time being at least, he is here, I didn't agree with his appointment based on what happened at Cambridge. By all accounts he is a nice bloke so I will support him now and wish him well and hope that he is able to ease my worries.

[Chris B]

Here's that very short clip from ITV Westcountry, starting from 3.20:

http://www.itv.com/westcountry-west/aft ... ines72390/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Not the most illuminating snippet, but I'm sure there'll be more on GullsPlayer later.

[cjp116]

Hi guys,

Orient fan here.

I am not going to comment on Lingy's time as Cambridge manager because I don't have any knowledge of what went on there. Equally don't listen to the Cambridge fans who have come on here and talked about his time at Orient. The idea that "everyone knows" Dean Smith was behind our success under Ling is a nonsense - I have never heard an Orient fan even suggest this. Ling and Smith were an excellent team - I do think it is important that Lingy has a character like Smith as his number 2, but to suggest that all the success was down to Deano is rubbish.

Ling was an excellent manager for us in League 2. I'd put him in the top three managers in my 22 years of supporting the club. He took over unquestionably the worst Orient side of all time - one that was bound for the Conference without a doubt - and in less than three years got us our first automatic promotion in 36 years. He spent very little money doing it and we played some fantastic football along the way.

Of course he made mistakes, of course he does things that frustrate the fans sometimes - what manager, particularly at this level, doesn't?

Lingy took us up, kept us up, and even had us top of League 1 for a while in the 07/08 season until we fell away after Christmas. It became apparent that he'd taken the club as far as he could and that's when he left but IMHO it's well worth a club like Torquay giving him a chance, whatever happened at Cambridge, and I think he could do very well for you.

[Chris B]

Thanks for that assessment cjp.

Out of interest, you say Ling probably needs a character like Dean Smith in his coaching team, what do you think the respective strengths of the two men were during their time at Orient?

[yellowhammer]

Have to say my immediate reaction was like that of many of you, not overly enthused in the slightest.

Having said that, we are expected to be looking at a season of consolidation next year, a lot of us would take that, myself included, nothing wrong with slow and steady progress. And if Ling can deliver that, he can be the man for the job, especially if the reasoning given by Simon Baker on the OS today is to be believed.

Not an exciting appointment by any means, and I have my doubts about him, but he deserves my support until he proves otherwise.

Onwards and upwards.