Is Ling being found out?

[yellowmonkey]

were all doomed i tell you doomed dooomed doooomed !!!!!!!! :devil: :devil: :devil: :devil: :whip: :whip:
lingy lingy he's our man
appointed by our board oh what a sham
he brought a team thats oh so thin
and not gonna bring any loanees in
maybe its time to buck the trend
and bring his contract to an end!!!

our recent result have the fans on their knees
but he cant see the wood for the trees
we need a few good players good and proper
or mr ling clean out your locker.

[yellow]

Early days.

The only thing that is starting to bug me a bit is that whilst I find Ling’s honesty a refreshing change from his predecessor there are times of late when I think he is a bit too much like a fan having a moan about poor performances. He might as well be brucie...

The drubbing of the reserves is a case in point. The OS article is called ‘Embarrassing’ and features the manager’s thoughts. Meanwhile elsewhere (thanks to stratfordgull, half of the yellow army on the day) we are told that the bench was very quiet during this thrashing.

He is after all the manager. And it is his job to come up with answers to the questions being posed.

I wish him well and Godspeed in this quest.

[Dave]

I think all us Torquay fans most take a proper overview of where our club is right now, in the grand scheme of things, gates are low, poor decisions from our club now would almost certainly send us as a club down the same road that plymouth are on , also our board are not foolish to the point, where they do not understand what relegation to the conference would mean long term to the club, thats why i have 100% confidence in the board to do all they can and more to avoid a return to the bsp.

Martin Ling has come in to our club and has not got the backing in terms of player budget that Buckle once enjoyed, he is however doing a decent job with the tools he has, if there ever was a case in football for a manager to have some patience, and time , Martin Ling at Torquay is it.

As have said on the other thread, the picture can change very quickly, nothing like a couple wins to make things look a litlle rosier, i fully take on board our last 2 away performances have be dire no one need remind me, i get it, however our hme match against Morecambe the team performance was decent enough, the team were punished for one moment of madness which cost us a pricless win.

The team has proved in patchs they can be lethal, coming back from 2 down against Burton/Rotherham etc, bit stating the obvious, stop these soft goals from going in and the team will be up and running again.

[Jeff]

To be honest I don't think Ling has been "found out" - we started too well and we've hit a patch that was always going to happen.

For people to think we aren't in transition is barmy. Clubs like us always go through boom/bust periods, just look at Lincoln, Grimsby, Stockport for example. These clubs have a finite budget and at some point will reach a ceiling on their prospective success. After a few years of constant development on an upward curve, Buckle probably had us as far as we were going to get, particularly faced with this seasons budget reduction, and choose to leave with his stock at it's highest.

This left Ling to come in, having probably not seen us play for a while and with key members of the squad departing. He had to build a squad pre-season based on limited information and assumptions, and I think that is now coming through. He is probably thinking that he shouldn't have given Stevens 2 years, that McPhee can't play wide right and so on, but he had to make these decisions at the time as doing something was better than nothing. We started better than most of us hoped, but now our true colours are shining through. This is something of a cobbled together team who are still gelling, getting used to new surroundings and a style of play, and that some of the squad aren't up to it. A cobbled together squad was always going to hit a rough patch somewhere.

My next point will be, are things really that bad? I had the fortune to not go to Shrewsbury or Bradford, but regardless both are big, well funded clubs at this level. Both have been pro-active in the transfer market, and see their home grounds as something of a fortress. I mean, Bradford had a side containing Matt Duke, Craig Fagan and Andy Davies (for half an hour anyway!), they are recently championship standard players. I can't say I'm that surprised we got beat. And don't forget, in-between those games we held table topping Morecambe to a draw when we could have won, but came across one of the divisions best keepers in Roache and a day when we collectively left our shooting boots at home. That wasn't a bad result, given that Morecambe had spanked Crawley a couple of weeks prior.

And finally, does this run not coincide with Ling making a significant change to our shape? Things were o.k when we were 4-4-2, but now we have this 4-5-1 thing going on with Stevens and Atieno out wide, O'Kane in behind and Lathrope holding. Not saying anything about those particular players, but maybe that formation just isn't working out. Maybe Ling needs to go back to basics, when things worked better

I'm looking forward to Saturday's game now, as that may change my perspective but having seen 4 games already this season I'm in no panic just yet.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Good post Jeff. I promise not to moan anymore about our last two away performances. Overall results have been slightly better than expected and that is having only won 3 league games i think it is so it could be a lot worse. I am aware we are in a transitional period still but part of me still hopes we can be around the play offs come the end of the season. If we have a bad next 5 games then we could be too far behind even by mid November. I know i am expecting too much but you never know. Lets just hope for a positive attacking show on saturday regardless of the scoreline and try and iron out the defensive errors.

[Trojan 67]

The above posts by yellow, forevertufc and Jeff . . .

[Father Jack]

Jeff, Bradford may be a big club but VP a fortress? That would be where it was P5 W1 D1 L3 before playing us?
We played Morecambe who had just lost to Rovers (of all teams to lose to!) and then lost to AFCW the match afterwards. As Matt said "we have to ask ourselves how on earth Morecambe are in the top three and not the bottom three". He may be a little harsh with that (but only a little bit).
Im all for putting a positive slant on things but thats a little bit clutching at straws

[Jeff]

Jeff, Bradford may be a big club but VP a fortress? That would be where it was P5 W1 D1 L3 before playing us?
We played Morecambe who had just lost to Rovers (of all teams to lose to!) and then lost to AFCW the match afterwards. As Matt said "we have to ask ourselves how on earth Morecambe are in the top three and not the bottom three". He may be a little harsh with that (but only a little bit).
Im all for putting a positive slant on things but thats a little bit clutching at straws

My point about Bradford was meant to come across as saying that they pride themselves on having a good home record, but they haven't necessarily achieved that! O.k it wasn't a very valid point, but i think what does stand up is they have a very strong squad. Now they have Phil Parkinson in charge, things were only going to get better for them. They have a high calibre of player on that squad, god only knows why it wasnt working out for them but with the players they have, once they clicked they will become a hard team to beat.

As for Morecambe, I think people are being overly critical of them. Yes they did lose to Rovers, but we all know the squad Buckle has up there - they are underachieving but can beat anyone on their day. And losing to AFCW - they are in amazing form and up into the top 3! That's not the hallmark of a bad side!

My point was - and still is - that Shrewsbury and Bradford away were always games we were liable to lose. Sure, it sounds like we played poorly but we may just have been beaten by better sides with far better resources. However, if we are beaten so soundly by the likes of Barnet, Hereford and Argyle then I think we have genuine grounds for concern.

[brucie]

Jeff - you seem to have conveniently forgotten that we played three quarters of the game against Bradford with an extra player and by all accounts hardly managed a shot.
Its nonsense therefore to suggest that its ok because Bradford are a big club.
Plain fact is that we are bloody awful - even the win against Aldershot was a total fluke.
We have too many sub standard players, whether this is to do with the budget,the grandstand,the manager or whatever makes no difference. These players are sub standard just the same.
If you think otherwise then please feel free to defend the 9-1 drubbing by Cheltenham reserves - a team made up most of professional players.
They were either a) not trying or b) bloody useless.

[usagullmichigan]

what amazes me Brucie is that when we were doing well theres not a squeek from you then when we start a bad run here you are.

[stefano]

If you think otherwise then please feel free to defend the 9-1 drubbing by Cheltenham reserves - a team made up most of professional players.
They were either a) not trying or b) bloody useless.

A team, made up entirely of Premiership professionals, called Arsenal recently lost a Premier League game 8-2. Clearly they were either (a) not trying, or (b) bloody useless!

[royalgull]

Feel free to defend the 9-1 drubbing by Cheltenham reserves...why? When in the grand scheme of things it matters not a single jot. individually in the first team when it matters those that played have proven to be capable. Reserve football is a completely different game in terms of standard, mentality and revelance. People prepare and play differently in reserve football than they do in first team football. Sometimes they don't and just treat every game as important, others just don't perform in reserve games. That's just human nature and down to the individual.

I am concerned how the first team does and how the first team does only to tell the truth and on the whole as a collective 15 games or whatever amount we've played I'd give it a pass mark. We've not been great, we're not as good as we were last season but everyone deep down knew that would be the case from the moment the first whistle went against Burton. This season is about consolidation around the middle of the division, the new manager and chairman said the same and we are on course to do that. We need to improve Bodin returning will give us more goal threat but we've still got enough to tick along this season. With the budget/player losses/management change/ things off the field going on that's all the aim can be this season.

[Jeff]

Jeff - you seem to have conveniently forgotten that we played three quarters of the game against Bradford with an extra player and by all accounts hardly managed a shot.

Not really.

When they went down to 10 men, Bradford took off a winger (Jack Compton) and replaced him with Guy Branston - a player who despite some poor form this season we all know his strengths. I wasn't there (just like you), but from looking at the players they had on the pitch they would have maintained 4 at the back, strung 4 across midfield - and a very strong 4 at that of Ritchie Jones, Michael Flynn, Kyel Reid and Mark Stewart - and left Fagan up front on his own. Any side is hard to break down with 2 banks of 4. In the end, they won the game via a set piece and a defensive error.

Having been to infinitely more games than you this season, I stand by my judgement that we're not in dire straits just yet. If we get hammered by the likes of Hereford, then I will 100% agree with you.

[Father Jack]

A team, made up entirely of Premiership professionals, called Arsenal recently lost a Premier League game 8-2. Clearly they were either (a) not trying, or (b) bloody useless!

Having caught some of it, I would say both a & b applied to that one Stef

[stevegull]

I hate this current doom brigade

Brucie, i think we have a solid squad atm, although i won't defend a 9-1 defeat as it is clearly poor, but in the grand scheme of things it doesn't matter at all.

The thing is, it could be showing our squad strength that Ellis, who was linked with a host of League 1 and Championship clubs last season, currently is not in our team and is on the bench. Similarly, Leadbitter has come from a Premier League club and come on some very good reports. Also, believe it or not, Rice was also being watched by scouts of several league scouts apparently, and we managed to snap him up. And people have been bashing McPhee for his last spell at the club, but if you look at it simply it is a very good signing. We have signed a midfield player who notched 18 goals last campaign for free! If you offered any Torquay fan that deal, i'm sure they would sign the player. Bad spell? Yes. Relegation on the horizon? No. Promotion? No. Realistically we are doing exactly as expected, and i'm fine with that.