Surely it's time to dip into the loan Market?

[Gulliball]

We need something extra from somewhere, just to give the place a boost and get out of the rut we're in. A win and a player coming in, and it will all look very different, but we have to get that win and at the moment it's hard to see where it's going to come from.

[Gullscorer]

After Wimbledon's visit next Tuesday the Gulls will have played 15 games, a reasonable time to make an initial judgement on the state of the squad for the season. But I'll make my judgement now: looking at this season's record, it's relegation form, and we're now into a relegation battle, only three points above the drop zone, and something needs to be done to turn things around before the end of the year.

But it would be too simplistic to rush into the blame game and call for Martin Ling to go, as a few have been doing. Yes, Ling, like every manager, and like Paul Buckle before him, has signed players who were good and not so good, players who lose form or who don't fit in for one reason or another. Halfway through last season the Gulls were sitting deep into the bottom half of the table, before Buckle began to bring in loan signings in January, and we still made the play-off final.

We are in a similar position now, perhaps even worse, but we shall still be only 15 games into the season, time enough to put things right. And if we end the season around mid-table, with the new grandstand completed, I shall be happy with that as a springboard for a promotion effort next season.

[Southampton Gull]

Ling can only sign players within the budget he's been given, he isn't to blame for that.......................

[royalgull]

We've needed a proper centre forward since Kee left and we've needed another centre half since Branston went. Nothings' changed.

Whilst brucie's view in my opinion is a bit OTT he is on the right lines for me. We have too many players that I am far from convinced about. We are so weak up front it's untrue and also out wide now Morris is injured we really lack any sort of consistency.

God knows what i'd do tuesday. First thing i'd do is be on the phone tot he chairman right now begging and pleading to allow me to sign a couple of loan nees to keep us ticking over until January. At the minute Is eriously don't think it would make any difference who plays Tuesday, it's the major issue with the squad at the minute they are all much of a muchness. There is nowhere you can look and say 'he should be playing instead'. They are all about the same level and whether that level is really good enough is up for debate.

If Howe is injured then that is pretty much the cherry on the cake today. We have nothing else.

[Gullscorer]

Ling can only sign players within the budget he's been given, he isn't to blame for that.......................

Absolutely right. Ling is not a bad manager, and the squad, with a little tweaking, will be a good one. We should all get into Plainmoor Tuesday and support them (may be a tight squeeze!)....

[AustrianAndyGull]

Absolutely right. Ling is not a bad manager, and the squad, with a little tweaking, will be a good one. We should all get into Plainmoor Tuesday and support them (may be a tight squeeze!)....

Saah, Stevens, Atieno, Rice, Lathrope, Morris, McPhee. A good squad? Jesus have mercy on your soul. I cannot believe we lost Kee, Zebroski and Robinson and replaced them with Howe, Atieno and McPhee. We also lost Branston and replaced him with Saah. Bobby is better than Bevan so there is some hope but pound for pound we are much weaker this season. They are his signings and they will help take us down. If this bad form continues we will be in danger of losing players like Mansell, O'kane and Ellis and be left with detritus. Yes we should all get into plainmoor and support them but they also have a responsibility to actually give a shit too.

[Southampton Gull]

Saah, Stevens, Atieno, Rice, Lathrope, Morris, McPhee. A good squad? Jesus have mercy on your soul. I cannot believe we lost Kee, Zebroski and Robinson and replaced them with Howe, Atieno and McPhee. We also lost Branston and replaced him with Saah. Bobby is better than Bevan so there is some hope but pound for pound we are much weaker this season. They are his signings and they will help take us down. If this bad form continues we will be in danger of losing players like Mansell, O'kane and Ellis and be left with detritus. Yes we should all get into plainmoor and support them but they also have a responsibility to actually give a sh*t too.

Andy, I know we disagree but trying to be constructive for a second, Robinson wasn't ours, Kee didn't want to be here and neither did Zebs either once he was offered more money which is the crux of it. We have players that want to be here and were prepared to take the money on offer, that's just how it is and it isn't the fault of Martin Ling. O'Kane will go when we receive a decent bid, Mansell will stay and Ellis will probably go once he's found out he can't hold down a place in the side. The players do obviously give a shit as their various tweets fully show. If the budget constraints are such that players like Saah and Howe are what we can afford then so be it. I still feel we have enough to stay in this division and that's the remit for this season. With crowds starting to dip it's a vicious circle but then most of us knew that before the season started and a poor run of results isn't going to change that. There's still over thirty games to go and plenty of time to sort things out. Whatever gets said by various Cambridge fans has absolutely nothing to do with what we face, no matter how much you'd love to use that as proof for your argument.

[AustrianAndyGull]

OK Dave, points taken although it doesn't matter about the circumstances around the players that left. The fact is they left and we needed to replace them. We replaced them with inferior Ling signings. I don't want to keep re-iterating the point but all i want to see is some effort and desire to attack no matter who plays. If we lost every game this season and went down, but gave our all then fair enough. It is the meek manner of our play recently that makes me not want to part with any of my hard earned money to go and watch players who don't try. I will attend even if we are losing as long as i see the players are trying but at the moment they do not deserve my money. As for the players going on twitter with their bleeding hearts and apologies, it doesn't cut it. Show us players that you are as pissed off as us fans by actually being positive on the pitch and making things happen. Words are hollow when not backed up by actions. We'll agree to disagree on this Dave although i appreciate your comments, a lot of which are good points. I'm an old fashioned kind of bloke brought up with Yorkshire miners and to me trying and striving for something is better than not trying at all. An ideology that Ling would do well to instill in his players. As always Dave i respect your opinions but i feel your faith in Ling is a bit misguided.

[Southampton Gull]

No worries mate, I respect your right to disagree totally and I'm just arguing my own point of view. I don't think it's mis-guided at all, I think it would be worse to sack him and face a situation with a new guy coming in and having to work under the same constraints and with the same players that aren't performing at the moment. I'm as pissed off as anyone with the results but I'm not reaching for the panic button just yet, there's a long long way to go and if we finish third from bottom then Ling has succeeded in doing the job he was asked to do, that's the point I can't forget, it's all the Board wanted and is worth considering by those so eager to blame Ling.

[gullsrus]

all this debate about players trying and being passionate about the club intrigues me.
it seems to me that some players are trying hard because they run round like headless chickens and look busy
it seems to me that some players are giving 100% because thay have one good little run in the match but have no end product
it seems to me that some players are playing well beacause they pass the ball around then give it away constantly but its the fault of the player on the receiving end
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they apologise on twitter
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they wave and clap the fans at the end more enthusiastically than others.
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they talk to the fans more than others

i could go on but every player is different and show passion and effort in different ways. i find it hard to believe that professionals dont want to try or dont care about the club except for the one or two mentioned repeatedly and i dont agree that there are only one or two. my personal opinion is that the players are good enough but aren't being organised or motivated in the right way.they seem to be uncomfortable and lacking in confidence. an example is the way they seem to panic and get rid of the ball as if its a red hot potato.

i am just interested in others views as how they judge a player to be giving 100% on the pitch and being passionate about the club. whats the criteria?

[brucie]

What the players say on twitter is irrelevant nonsensical. Perhaps they ought to get out on the training ground and start earning their money. Our perhaps have some pride in what they are doing ffs. The 9-1 defeat of the reserves told its own story. A shambles,a disgrace. Blame who you like, Ling,Taylor,the board. We are not staying up with the players we have at present. Thats a dead cert.

[AustrianAndyGull]

all this debate about players trying and being passionate about the club intrigues me.
it seems to me that some players are trying hard because they run round like headless chickens and look busy
it seems to me that some players are giving 100% because thay have one good little run in the match but have no end product
it seems to me that some players are playing well beacause they pass the ball around then give it away constantly but its the fault of the player on the receiving end
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they apologise on twitter
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they wave and clap the fans at the end more enthusiastically than others.
it seems to me that some players are passionate about the club because they talk to the fans more than others

i could go on but every player is different and show passion and effort in different ways. i find it hard to believe that professionals dont want to try or dont care about the club except for the one or two mentioned repeatedly and i dont agree that there are only one or two. my personal opinion is that the players are good enough but aren't being organised or motivated in the right way.they seem to be uncomfortable and lacking in confidence. an example is the way they seem to panic and get rid of the ball as if its a red hot potato.

i am just interested in others views as how they judge a player to be giving 100% on the pitch and being passionate about the club. whats the criteria?

For me mate i am sort of in the headless chicken brigade. I know it doesn't always translate to success on the pitch but it is a necessity for me. For example the strikers should press from the front, if they can't be arsed then it is one more line of defence that the opposition has negated without any effort expended. I hate to see strikers just watch whilst players within reach of a challenge just let them ghost on by. It is pure laziness and its not as if strikers are the hardest worked on the pitch anyway. Workrate and pressure at all times is the very least i expect. Also players who don't want the ball ( like a red hot potato as you say). I want players to be offering themselves and making forward runs not taking the easy option and being static and offering us nothing. If the player bombs forward and gets caught out on the counter if we lose possession then so be it. I'm not gonna be having a go. I'd rather he made an effort to get forward than sit back and play mind numbing pointless passing routines that don't get beyond the half way line. It is basically be positive, try and be positive with and without the ball and when you don't have the ball try and bloody get it back.

[diamondgirl]

There appears, to me, to be zero passion and commitment from a majority of the players. I agree that you cannot take too much notice of what they say on Twitter, and a couple of the players (Manse & Nicho spring to mind) do always apologise for the performance (or lack of) and say they will do their best to get it put right. However, most of the others tweet about what film should they watch, how boring the coach trip home is, how many points have they got on football manager (or whatever!) which nightclub should they go too. Now I do appreciate that they have a life outside of football, but do they find it that easy to just switch off from the job that pays their morgages? Do they just accept that, however badly, or well, they perform they will be paid anyway? If it were me, I would not be concerned about the film/journey/footie manager or nightclub , but how soon I could get back onto the training pitch in an attempt to try and rectify the situation.

I, again, appreciate that "someone" will have to finish bottom of the league and if it has to be TUFC, then so be it, but I would like the team to put up some sort of fight and show some passion and commitment. Lets face it, thats what they ask us, the fans, to do. I travel home (season ticket holder) and away supporting the boys, however last Sat. (Southend) I decided that I really could not COMMIT to spending 8/10 hours DRIVING the 520/550 mile round trip, plus the £100 that it would have cost in fuel/entrance/ programme/ cuppa etc. when the players are not prepared to commit 100%

I really dont think we have a bad squad (or manager) just a lousy attitute to the game. Maybe if their wages were docked for lack lustre performances things would change

These are just my humble thoughts and opinions. One very fed up season ticket holder.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Spot on diamondgirl. It is all about weighing it all up in your head and coming to the conclusion that cost wise and effort wise, going to a particular game is just not worth it when you don't get anything in return. 3 points would be the ideal outcome but if not just 100% commitment, effort and positivity from the players. That is all we can ask of them. I wonder what really goes through a players mind when say he is warming up before a game away at say Morecambe on a cold january day (like last season) and sees 150-200 of the yellow army tucked away in a discreet corner of the ground. Does he look at them and consider that most of them will have got up at the crack of dawn to travel, spent loads and will not get home til about midnight at the earliest. Then be inspired and be amazed that they are there to watch him play, or does the player take a look and pity us as sad losers who should be doing something esle with our lives - like posting banal trivia on twitter or something? This season i wonder?

[Awayday]

I have been talking to SG about this, but for the first time in my 20 odd years of following Torquay, I am finding myself not giving an arse about going to watch Torquay. Southend is one of those games I always go to, but Saturday morning just couldn't be arsed, so I didn't go. Up until Bradford I hadn't missed an away game, but after how badly we played at D&R and Aldershot I have started visiting smaller more local clubs and missing how badly we are playing. I have said before I don't mind losing if we played well and played as a team, but when they play like cr@p I would rather save my time and watch Eastleigh, Sholing or even Worthing the other weekend. Tomorrow night SG asked me to go to AFC Wimbledon game, I can't go due to work, but I would still question myself about wanting to go and watch them beat us 3-0 at home.

Call me a fair weather fan if you want, the friends who know me at Torquay now how commited I have been in the past, but something has to change. For me personally I think the board need to put some money in to the club for playing staff. As a consortium they have contributed a big chunk in the past, but as individuals within the consortium it has been very little. As SG has already said, the club have created a vicious circle for themselves, but someone needs to inject some change into the runnings otherwise BSP here we come again.

For me personally we need 3 keys players, some one to replace Branston as a hard man centre back, someone up front who can hold the ball up and score and someone to sit behind the forwards and create chances or someone who can play a defending midfield role and let Mansell go up front and create more.