Port Vale vs Torquay United

[Father Jack]

It didnt affect us against Oxford or Wycombe last season, pretty much playing both teams off the park and I cant be certain, but I think we travelled on the day to Bury as well, also showing them up. Even at the Cobblers, its was only really the referee that stopped us getting all 3 points after the balls up with the traffic !!!

We quite clearly DONT always play in a disjointed manner when we travel on the day and given the cost of an overnight stay, its the sensible option to travel on the day.

[cosmic74]

Just got home to Plymouth after going to the game Friday night as I made a weekend of it in the midlands with my kids!! So many thanks to Port Vale for the game just costing me a fiver, but thanks to my kids I have spent nearly £400!!! But it was worth it!!! However, £4 to park the car right outside the ground, and fairly cheap beer in the bar outside the ground, thanks Port Vale for another away ground ticked off and happy memories of it as well.

As for the game, firstly, great turn out from Gulls fans, don't know how many we took, but I am guessing around 200! Anyone know for sure?? Completely agree with previous posts, it was a point gained, not 2 lost. I think with the cutting edge of Eunan, then maybe we would have created a few more chances and won the game, but the lads did well, a gritty performance, with no outstanding performers, but no-one had a bad game in my eye. Unbeaten run still intact, and a clean sheet to boot!

Andy

[AustrianAndyGull]

Glad you enjoyed the day Andy. Was it just yourself and three little uns about 6 years plus? If so i was stood right behind you first half at the back. I kept on thinking how nice it was to see a dad and three kids at an away game miles away on a cold november night and that it must have took true dedication. I haven't started taking my 2 and half year old daughter yet but when i do i'll be a bit nervous of how she is going to react. I know how hard it is with one never mind three! It may well NOT be you i'm on about Andy but well one for getting the kids involved and COYY!!

[cosmic74]

Yes that was me mate. I take them to all home games that I am home for, which is about 12 a season on average, and try to get them to atleast 2 away games. That was their second after Rovers, so I think I might manage a 3rd in March when I am next home in the UK. They have all been going since they were 2 years old, they are all born and bred in Plymouth, and take a lot of pleasure wearing TUFC atire in Plymouth, especially this season!!!

[SuperNickyWroe]

Yes that was me mate. I take them to all home games that I am home for, which is about 12 a season on average, and try to get them to atleast 2 away games. That was their second after Rovers, so I think I might manage a 3rd in March when I am next home in the UK. They have all been going since they were 2 years old, they are all born and bred in Plymouth, and take a lot of pleasure wearing TUFC atire in Plymouth, especially this season!!!

nice one cosmic!!!

[ferrarilover]

Matt and Dutch:-

You've both got a point. Matt is right that ideally, we should be staying overnight as the players will inevitably be fresher with a good nights sleep and not having to travel. What he really doesn't seem to understand is this thing called money. We don't have much of it and to pay for 16 players plus Manager, Assistant, physio and the rest of the back room team, you're looking at around £50 per person. 20 people would be £1,000 for EVERY away game over a 2 hour drive (which is most of them). On top of that, there are at least 3 meals, coach fuel etc. You're probably looking at closer to £3,000 for each away trip, or £69,000 over a season (just in the league).

No doubt Matt will come back with the only point he'll have left which is that it'll help us win the game so I'll preempt him. Get your chequebook out and pay for it yourself!

Actually, there are two arguments which spring immediately to mind.

The bit highlighted above is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Signing players helps us win games, should I pay for all of those? New training ground helps us win games, should I pay for that? Damien Davy gets us players back fit, which helps us win games, should I pay for him?
Winning football matches is what Torquay United Football Club exists to do, thus, as part of it's operating costs, it should factor in things which facilitate that very thing. If staying overnight in hotels before matches is part of that, then so be it. If the present money men are unhappy with this situation, I can suggest nothing other than their cashing in their chips and finding a different hobby.
Equally, up to this time a month ago, the match was scheduled to be on a Saturday at 1500, therefore necessitating an overnight stay, so the money was already earmarked for that expense (you won't convince me TUFC do not plan financially more than 6 weeks in advance), so it's not as though it's an FA Cup replay which is an extra match to be played and extra money to be found, its money which, but for the grace of God, we would have had to have spent anyway.

Dutch, I get your point about Plymouth travelling half the distance etc, but it's not strictly relevant. I'm not interested in what PAFC do, because they aren't TUFC. Yes, we got a decent away, prima facie, it's an excellent result, but the manner of the performance shows that we really could have gone there and scored 3 or 4 and come away with all three points. Playing in the manner we did on Friday in every away match will result in, say, 50% draws and 50% losses on the road, you'd have to playing the local blind school to be as bad as we were and get all three points. Take this over a season, and of a possible 69 away points, we take 12. With this record, we need to win 90% of our home games to make the playoffs, that isn't going to happen. So, to combine both arguments, we essentially sell any realistic hope we have of gaining promotion before the season even starts, for a matter of £69,000. This hardly seems to make any sense at all.
Accordingly, take the hit, serve less fancy biscuits at the AGM and pay for the sodding hotel for a night in order that we stand a decent chance of winning a Friday (or Tuesday) away game.

Matt.

[Dutchgull]

"If the present money men are unhappy with this situation, I can suggest nothing other than their cashing in their chips and finding a different hobby."

Now THAT is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard !!

Face it Matt you do not like the fact that your argument is flawed. If it were not for the"money men" as you ridiculously call our board of directors we would not have a club at all. Get off your high horse and come back to reality. So a point at a fired up Port Vale at their ground minus our star player isn't good enough for you. So in your view staying overnight virtually guarantees a win ? Jeez you have a lot to learn about life football and the universe !!

Football is not an exact science

Less fancy biscuits cat the AGM .....what cobblers.

Paul

[cambgull]

Actually, there are two arguments which spring immediately to mind.

The bit highlighted above is just about the dumbest thing I have ever heard. Signing players helps us win games, should I pay for all of those? New training ground helps us win games, should I pay for that? Damien Davy gets us players back fit, which helps us win games, should I pay for him?
Winning football matches is what Torquay United Football Club exists to do, thus, as part of it's operating costs, it should factor in things which facilitate that very thing. If staying overnight in hotels before matches is part of that, then so be it. If the present money men are unhappy with this situation, I can suggest nothing other than their cashing in their chips and finding a different hobby.
Equally, up to this time a month ago, the match was scheduled to be on a Saturday at 1500, therefore necessitating an overnight stay, so the money was already earmarked for that expense (you won't convince me TUFC do not plan financially more than 6 weeks in advance), so it's not as though it's an FA Cup replay which is an extra match to be played and extra money to be found, its money which, but for the grace of God, we would have had to have spent anyway.

Dutch, I get your point about Plymouth travelling half the distance etc, but it's not strictly relevant. I'm not interested in what PAFC do, because they aren't TUFC. Yes, we got a decent away, prima facie, it's an excellent result, but the manner of the performance shows that we really could have gone there and scored 3 or 4 and come away with all three points. Playing in the manner we did on Friday in every away match will result in, say, 50% draws and 50% losses on the road, you'd have to playing the local blind school to be as bad as we were and get all three points. Take this over a season, and of a possible 69 away points, we take 12. With this record, we need to win 90% of our home games to make the playoffs, that isn't going to happen. So, to combine both arguments, we essentially sell any realistic hope we have of gaining promotion before the season even starts, for a matter of £69,000. This hardly seems to make any sense at all.
Accordingly, take the hit, serve less fancy biscuits at the AGM and pay for the sodding hotel for a night in order that we stand a decent chance of winning a Friday (or Tuesday) away game.

Matt.

The dumbest thing you've ever heard? Firstly, you seem to write this on a fairly regular basis which makes it pretty a worthless statement now. Secondly, I wrote it on a forum so there's no way that you could've heard it. Your statement is just about the dumbest thing I have ever seen.

Back on topic though, without sifting through the club's financial reports, I should imagine we are currently running at a loss. With the building of a new stand and payment of Colin Lee's big, fat cheque, I can't see this changing any time soon either. So if we're already running at a loss, the club aren't going to spend money on something unless it's utterly necessary. Considering we can get a bus up on the day, staying in a hotel is not a necessity and by no means does it guarantee a win.

So consider that we are running at a loss, which means that when spending extra on hotels, we would then be spending money that we don't have on games which we don't make any money on. The only ways we could make this money back is in two ways, guarantee an extra 200 people for every home game of the season (assuming they don't cost any money while they are there) or make cuts elsewhere. Playing budget, definitely not. Already wafer thin backroom staff, err... no. Don't pay our taxes and turn into Argyle, no thank you.

What would you suggest Matt?

[drummergull90]

I went to the game on Friday, sorry its taken me all weekend to post my thoughts but I've been busy turning 21 all weekend!

In truth it was a poor game from two poor sides. The number of misplaced passes from PV must have reached double figures, and we carried no attacking threat whatsoever. Very cold up there too. Damo had a good game, tackling well and his distribution is rapidly improving. Olejnik made a couple of very good saves. We just lacked that cutting edge that Eunan gives us.

Only player of real quality on the pitch was their number 36, who looked a real threat all night. Had Nicho countless times, but failed to finish with anything threatening. Point gained rather than two lost and crucially another clean sheet in the league.

[royalgull]

I don't know about Friday but they have been staying overnight pre match at away games, in fact I think they did for Friday's game I'm sure they travelled up on the thursday. I can double check.

Sounds as though we weren't at our best, didn't lose so that'll do. We arent' going to be good every week because we aren't THAT good, simple as. We're competitive good on our day and we've had some excellent results recently, Friday included. Still convinced Port Vale will be nearer the top 7 come May than we will be so you have to take it as a solid point.

[Dave]

Sorry just to switch this one back to the , why do we travel up on the day debate, i would imagine the decision to go on the day of the Vale match was martin Ling's.

The one thing the board have allways, allways done is back there the manager to the hilt, they did above and beyond the call with Buckle, and as far as i have heard/seen they are doing so with Lingy, had Martin Ling asked for an overnight stay for the Vale match i am sure are club would have found the money, despite the obviuos need to control the club's costs more than ever.

Would traveling up the night before made a difference, i doubt it very much, it was allways going to be a tough game, and Vale were boosted by a number of loan signings, i would take a 0.0 at Vale every time to be honest, even tough the team won there the year before.

[Plymouth Gull]

Matt,

You'd be happy for the club to spend tens of thousands of pounds on hotels for every away game, just so we stay over night and have a slightly better chance of winning? That money could buy some more players, or go to the Grandstand fund, or whatever. I don't think it's necessary to stay overnight - it's just an unneccesary cost, in my opinion. Do you think every team that comes to us stays overnight? No, I doubt it.

[cambgull]

Matt,

You'd be happy for the club to spend tens of thousands of pounds on hotels for every away game, just so we stay over night and have a slightly better chance of winning? That money could buy some more players, or go to the Grandstand fund, or whatever. I don't think it's necessary to stay overnight - it's just an unneccesary cost, in my opinion. Do you think every team that comes to us stays overnight? No, I doubt it.

I think Matt should start his own business, spend frivilously on unnecessary things, go to a tonne of trade shows then look at his stock levels and bank balance. He'd be bankrupt within 6 months on his current showing of total lack of business acumen!

[ferrarilover]

There is far too much nonsense representing a complete and absolute failure to understand the simple points I am making for me to even begin to respond to you all individually, so a generic reply it'll have to be...

Why is it hard for you guys to understand that when we don't stay overnight before away games, we are, largely, garbage.

Sadly, paying for hotels is an expense which we the board should reasonably expect to face. If I were suggesting that we stay for a week, in 5 star luxury, every time we play away, and that the team eat nothing but caviar and lobster in that time, then I could understand the cries on here that we haven't got money to burn. Since I'm suggesting cheap 'n' cheerful, exactly the type of place teams up and down the land spend their nights in, it's not wastage, its a perfectly valid business expense.

If you are happy for us to throw away lots and lots of away points for the sake of a few quid, then that's your look out. Me, I prefer winning matches to saving money, since winning matches makes money, lots of money, because it gets clubs promoted to bigger and better divisions.

As for the idea, Dutch, that I am unhappy with an away point at Vale, I'll say it again, just one more time, since you obviously didn't see it the last two times I wrote it. I AM HAPPY WITH AN AWAY POINT AT VALE, BUT NOT SO MUCH WHEN IT COULD, SO EASILY, HAVE BEEN THREE IF WE HADN'T BEEN CRAP!

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

I think Matt should start his own business, spend frivilously on unnecessary things, go to a tonne of trade shows then look at his stock levels and bank balance. He'd be bankrupt within 6 months on his current showing of total lack of business acumen!

And there, right there, demonstrates perfectly your absolute and total failure to understand the point I am making, and have made very clearly, twice, if not three times now.

Matt.