Zebroski

[ferrarilover]

Fletch,

OOOOH, good question...

Honest answer, to your specific question, I haven't a clue. However, It is my understanding that the prosecution are duty bound to provide the defence with ANY evidence which they request. The CPS can lodge an objection to the evidence being presented in open court on the grounds of national security, but in this instance, the Judge would simply close the courtroom to allow the evidence to be heard.

Under English Law, mention of previous convictions (or lack thereof) are admissible as testimony to a defendants previous character. I see no good reason why this rule would not apply to convictions under military law equally as it applies to those under civillian law.

You will recall that under QRs, it is an offence in military law for a serviceman to commit an offence in civillian law, so if there is even the slightest suspicion that the squaddie had been fighting, then I can only believe that the scuffers would have been duty bound to at least question the chap involved. If the Redcaps believe they have sufficient evidence to secure conviction at Orderly Room (or Court Martial), they will procede with the charge.
At a lower level, if the squaddies SNCO thinks he's likely to have been in a punch up, he might well charge him anyway and just hope for the best, this is the Pongos after all, they love a bit of unfair justice.

So, my answer to your question is YES, the defence can ask for the serviceman's record and use it to suggest that the serivceman goaded Zedders into hitting him. Trouble with this is, Zedders has pleaded not guilty, which suggests to me that his brief believes he has a better than evens chance of getting away with it (or indeed, that CZ genuinely didn't do anything). If the case goes to trial (it will unless there is a late change of plea), provocation may only be used in mitigation. It is a specific defence only to the charge of murder. Since he has pleaded not guilty and forced a trial at Crown Court, this mitigation would likely fall on deaf ears and Zedders could well find himself "passing the soap" for 3 months.

Hope this is clear, also watching the Liverpool game and contemplating going to bed rather than going to the pub since its -20 outside.

Matt.

[Helen Frisby]

Lot of fuss about nought - keep him.

[Gulliball]

I'd expect (and hope) that the club will support him through this. Like it or not, football is a different industry to almost any other and it's now almost irrelevent what footballers do outside of their club life. As long as he avoids jail, then it won't have too much of an effect on Torquay United. We knew his history before we signed him (twice), and nothing he's done here changes his reputation. The bottom line is that he's been our best player this season, and we need him.

Very sensationalist from the HE too - he wasn't charged with assaulting a solidier, he was charged with actual bodily harm - your lead line should at least be accurate.

[ferrarilover]

I'd expect (and hope) that the club will support him through this. Like it or not, football is a different industry to almost any other and it's now almost irrelevent what footballers do outside of their club life. As long as he avoids jail, then it won't have too much of an effect on Torquay United. We knew his history before we signed him (twice), and nothing he's done here changes his reputation. The bottom line is that he's been our best player this season, and we need him.

Very sensationalist from the HE too - he wasn't charged with assaulting a solidier, he was charged with actual bodily harm - your lead line should at least be accurate.

In fairness to the HE, it is accurate, moreso than putting simply ABH, they have defined the ABH as an assault (it's a type of assualt) and they have specified the victim by occupation, thus, more accurate. What it is is sensationalist, which one must expect from a local tabloid.

Your gripe should at least be accurate. (< this is supposed to be a laughing smily, since this post may not be entirely serious).

*Toddles off to find hobby*

Matt.

[Rjc70]

Both prosecution and defence can apply to put bad character in. This could include service disciplinary records if e.g. test is passed that they show reprehensible conduct of a probative value in these proceedings. Has Zeb's elected, then?

[ferrarilover]

Not as yet, but, for a very dull reason, I believe he will request a trip to Exeter CC.

Matt.

[Plymouth Gull]

Anyone know of any news?

No news is good news.. hopefully!

[Fletch]

Anyone know of any news? No news is good news.. hopefully!

Nick. It take a long time for the wheels of justice to start moving. 6 to 12 months after charging seems commonplace and there are certainly examples of longer than that (even in the Herald) so I wouldnt hold your breath...

[Kit_robin]

Nick. It take a long time for the wheels of justice to start moving. 6 to 12 months after charging seems commonplace and there are certainly examples of longer than that (even in the Herald) so I wouldnt hold your breath...

I presume Nick was asking as Zebroski had a court date yesterday. on front page of herald today saying he has admitted assault, been ordered to complete 150 hours community service and attend an alcohol rehab programme.

Apparently he stepped in to defend branston (!), and the 'victim' had to be removed from hospital the next day for aggressive behavior.

[CP Gull]

It's all in the Herald today:

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

Zebs pleaded guilty to the assault which rather flies in the face of the statement put out a few days back by Simon Baker about him being "innocent until proven guilty"!

It appears that there were some mitigating circumstances and that he only got involved by sticking up for a mate (Branno of all people - was that really necessary?) but has then clearly gone over the top in his reaction.

From the playing side of things it's clear that the Club (i.e. the Board) are taking the matter seriously and I suppose a criminal convinction would probably be grounds for dismissal and certainly if he was an underperforming and overpaid player who the club wanted rid of then I'm sure they have sufficient grounds to sack him if they wanted to! That said he is such a hard working and valuable member of the squad that such action would not do the player or the club any favours. The fact that he has given up drinking and is taking advice/counselling from the PFA should all count in his favour. Clearly the fact that he has avoided a prison sentence and will just have to knuckle down and do his community service will count in his favour when the club decides what they are going to do about this. But that said for a "family" club that prides itself on its professionalism these days this is precisely the sort of headlines that they would want to avoid.

Personally, I hope the club leave it at that - hopefully the player has learned his lesson, but given his history (he was remember sacked by Argyle for a similar indiscretion, albeit provoked into it) I doubt he would be given another chance by the club should he ever transgress again!

[tommyg]

We can't afford to cut our nose off to spite our face on this one. Simon Baker is obviously angry as this time last week he said Zebs was pleading not guilty. But there is absolutely no way we will release him from his contract. He is (or was*) one of our most saleable assets, cost us £25,000 and has been our best player this season. All we can do his slap his wrists, fine him a couple of weeks wages and warn him that he will be sacked should he cross the line again. I'm not condoning Zebroski's actions. To punch and then kick/knee someone when they're on the ground is a cowardly act. But he's been punished by the courts and now we must move on.

Looking ahead to tomorrow, I can't see Buckle not picking Zebs. If anything his head should be cleared with the weight of not knowing his punishment lifted off his shoulders. This whole saga hasn't affected his performances to date, so I don't see why he shouldn't play. Financially, it's out most important game of the season. Lining up against Walsall without Benyon and Zebs would seriously hampen our chances of a potential money-spinning tie against one of the big boys.

My biggest concern is the 150 hours of community service. Will this mean him missing training/matches or are they flexible with the times he will have to work?

* And as selfish, inconsiderate and mistimed as this may be, one positive is that this news will probably warn off any potential suitors who have been tracking Zebroski's excellent form this season.

[Plymouth Gull]

I presume Nick was asking as Zebroski had a court date yesterday. on front page of herald today saying he has admitted assault, been ordered to complete 150 hours community service and attend an alcohol rehab programme.

Apparently he stepped in to defend branston (!), and the 'victim' had to be removed from hospital the next day for aggressive behavior.

Indeed I was, kit_robin.

Cheers for clearing that up

[ferrarilover]

It's all in the Herald today:

http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/ ... ticle.html

Zebs pleaded guilty to the assault which rather flies in the face of the statement put out a few days back by Simon Baker about him being "innocent until proven guilty"!

It appears that there were some mitigating circumstances and that he only got involved by sticking up for a mate (Branno of all people - was that really necessary?) but has then clearly gone over the top in his reaction.

From the playing side of things it's clear that the Club (i.e. the Board) are taking the matter seriously and I suppose a criminal convinction would probably be grounds for dismissal and certainly if he was an underperforming and overpaid player who the club wanted rid of then I'm sure they have sufficient grounds to sack him if they wanted to! That said he is such a hard working and valuable member of the squad that such action would not do the player or the club any favours. The fact that he has given up drinking and is taking advice/counselling from the PFA should all count in his favour. Clearly the fact that he has avoided a prison sentence and will just have to knuckle down and do his community service will count in his favour when the club decides what they are going to do about this. But that said for a "family" club that prides itself on its professionalism these days this is precisely the sort of headlines that they would want to avoid.

Personally, I hope the club leave it at that - hopefully the player has learned his lesson, but given his history (he was remember sacked by Argyle for a similar indiscretion, albeit provoked into it) I doubt he would be given another chance by the club should he ever transgress again!

I'm not absolutely certain this is strictly correct.

Matt.

[gullinhert]

I am amazed by some peoples attitude on here; we all know what that area is like at night time ; a virtual no police go area and its inevitable that most nights someone will suffer being there. The fact that the 'victim' was having a go at Guy and Chris stepped in and all he got was a bit of a thumping is hardly amazing; weve all seen what the police have to do to some idiots to restrain them at all.
Chris has pleaded guilty and been given a suitable punishment. Pleading guilty was the right thing to do in that he did hit and hurt the lunatic. At that point the story ends; why some poeple should now wish retribution from TUFC amazes me. Chris trains well and behaves like a model professional. He is outstanding on the football field under intense pressure and often goaded by opposition and 'fans' alike.
This should be accepted and let the guy move on ..........................

[CP Gull]

I'm not absolutely certain this is strictly correct.

Matt.

Sorry Matt, but I think you will find that this was the case.

On a pre season tour of Austria, the story goes that Paul Wotton (captain of PAFC at the time) was "winding Zebs up". Zebs took offence to the micky taking and wrapped a glass pitcher over Wotton's head. The local police decided not to take criminal proceedings - deciding that it was best left to the UK authorities to take any action that was deemed appropriate.

On the return from Austria, no criminal proceedings were pursued, but Zebs was sacked by PAFC. Like I say, by all accounts he was heavily provoked by Wotton, who as captain should have known better than to take the pee out of a young pro, but those are the facts as I understand it.