is brucie right??

[bixieupnorth]

a niggle has come to the fore following brucies post this morning in response to the aaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhgggggggggggggg!! topic

are we really simply riding our luck, or is there a bigger factor at work here

i've not been to that many games this season but what i saw in the 2nd half at rotherham and in sections at burton, is that we simply do not know how to stop teams playing? is sounded similar last night, we were bombarded almost the whole game and seemed powerless to stop it

obviously we have a very sturdy defence, who have held firm thru many many hours of football and the best keeper in the 4th division, but what is it about how we go about things that we can let teams dictate the play for such long periods?
luckily, or tactically, no one has seriously breached our back line, but is it just a matter of time?? or are we witnessing a genuine footballing tactic of absorption and snatching winning goals.

its working certainly, but it'd be nice to see us totally outplay a team more regularly? this isnt a moan, as i'm extremely happy with the whole set up. just a tad concerned that one day someone will shoot straighter than barnet did last night, and if we were to get promoted would a new method be employed against better stronger fitter teams next season

yellow army!

[Plymouth Gull]

Genuine football tactic. Let them come onto us, we know we can handle most of it, then sucker punch. Like last night.

It certainly isn't all luck when you win 18 league games out of 25. That's class.

[MidDevon]

It was certainly not that one sided last night, like reports have suggested.

It was purely that the Barnet front two gave Saah and especially Ellis the runaround the whole of the first half. We were more than fortunate that their finishing was poor.

That is just my opinion, I have to say that when voting for man of the match the 3 posters before me all gave Ellis a position in the top 5, perhaps I missed something, but i thought he was shocking and almost cost us the game in the first half.

The second half we coped well, passed the ball around, played at our pace and tired Barnet out. I don't think we have given Lingy and Taylor the credit they deserve for winning these games (and others like it, especially on the road, by changing the tactics at half time and prudent substitutions

[ferrarilover]

Ok, let's get some perspective here. Izale McLeod is million pound striker who is in completely the wrong division for his talents. Barnet have got a manager In Sanchez who has had a pretty good career, on both sides of the white line. He is certainly capable of arranging Barnet into a formation and method which makes the most of the one and only asset they possess.
Barnet have a game plan, and that game plan is to smash it straight down the middle, and hope that their Championship quality striker can latch into something. Their 'football' relies on little apart from the law of averages.

Those who were there last night saw the home side have, maybe, 10 shots, 8 of which missed the goal by account try mile. Two went over that tall stand at the far end. If you've been to Underhill, you'll appreciate that as quite an achievement.
The run for the penalty was, conservatively, three yards offside. Credit really must go to Bobby for forcing McLeod to attempt to round him, rather than simply shooting into the goal. As for the contact, well, every striker in England would have done exactly the same thing, but it really was a case of McLeod hoofing the ball out for a goal kick, then getting within 5 feet of Bobby and launching himself into the air, arms flailing, legs spread wide, a howl of 'pain' and a buck of the head completed the move. Tom Daly would have been proud.
I'm firmly of the opinion that 'getting away with it' involves more than the opposition being wasteful. Missing a penalty is top of the list of footballing sins. It's not lucky for the oppo striker to be so hopeless as to mis-que from 12 yards, it is simply poor form from the forward.
Equally, it is not lucky from us if they can't shoot straight from open play, or miss decent headed opportunities. To suggest this is akin to suggesting we got lucky because Lionel Messi chose to sign for Barcelona, rather than Barnet, because 'he would have had a hatful last night.'

The real story of the matter is that we gave Barnet every opportunity last night to pick up three points, and they simply were not anywhere near good enough to capitalise. They have forced our keeper into one save (from a long ranger which he saw late and pushed wide, excellently). Aside from this, they asked precious few questions of a Torquay side who are happy to play away from home, against a weaker team, after a long journey and at the end of a very tiring season, played after a very tiring last season, under difficult conditions, with no real change to the starting XI (have a couple played every second of this season, Manse, Oastler, perhaps?)

As I opened with, let's get some perspective. If we can play that far below our usual standards and still get a win, taking into account all of the above, do you really not think that is a GOOD thing?

Matt.

[ferrarilover]

Double postage is for winners!

Mid, for my money, Ellis and Saah were both hamstrung last night by an oddly apprehensive Bobby (the goalkeeper, not a member of the Constabulary). There where's number of times when the ball went long and straight and I was waiting for BO (again, the goalie, not the unpleasant smell) to come and collect. Instead, he chose to remain rooted to his line, Bevan-esque.
A little bit of a chat and some better officiating (meaning that McLeod couldn't start his run 10 yards offside!) and the second half was a different affair.

Matt.

[Gullscorer]

Great posts on this thread (except of course for the one you're reading now!).

[the_shredder]

Brucie obviously doesn't like us playing "bad" football - even if we win, because it might be an omen for the future (bad results to come if our luck runs out etc. etc.) So ultimately, losing games is the big fear - yet we're winning now- so why not enjoy the present rather than worry about the future?

We've proven over nearly an entire season that we're at least a better-than-average team, and with our budget, there is not a single damn thing worthy of complaining about. No single individual or team of individuals are perfect, all we ask is for applied effort for whatever job they're being asked to do, and it looks to me that we're getting just that out of the entire TUFC setup.

But who said we're playing bad football anyway? Some commentators and 1 forum poster who may have a lot of experience/knowledge of football, but only tunnel-vision when it comes to the big picture?
If the aim of the sport is to score more goals than the opposition, and we consistantly seem to do so, then why shouldn't it be said that we are playing "good" football, even it might LOOK bad?

Secondly, i think it's obvious brucie either likes to predict a future downfall so he can feel proud of himself if/when he is proved right, OR - alternatively he is the worlds greatest troll who actually is really happy and cheerful, just loves winding us all up. I'm not a psychologist, but i'd personally recommend he sees one

[royalgull]

You aren't 'lucky' after 40 games!

bruice thought we were going down just before Christmas so that's how much our favourite pessimist knows.

What I would say is we don't have the same fluency as last year, generally we were a better side to watch last year but we are a more efficient side this year and we have a Plan B. It's not a complicated plan B but we have another way of playing, we go 2 up top and chuck it at them like we did v Port Vale. Last year we played 4 strikers basically which worked perfectly.........until Old Trafford. When it didn't we were screwed.

We have a fantastic back 5 for this level and the goalkeeper is a lot to do with that. He's won us numerous games, we have a nice balance in midfield and we have a sprinkle of quality in O'Kane, Stevens and Howe, matchwinners.

Defensive quality is the reason we are where we are, I haven't been to as many games as I'd like this year but there's only been 1 performance where I thought we were really good today and that was Argyle...2nd half. Other than that we've been reslute, we've stayed in games and we've nicked them. Those were the games we didn't win last year, it's not luck it's being more organised and having better defensive players than what we had last year.

[yellow]

You aren't 'lucky' after 40 games!

bruice thought we were going down just before Christmas so that's how much our favourite pessimist knows.

What I would say is we don't have the same fluency as last year, generally we were a better side to watch last year but we are a more efficient side this year and we have a Plan B. It's not a complicated plan B but we have another way of playing, we go 2 up top and chuck it at them like we did v Port Vale. Last year we played 4 strikers basically which worked perfectly.........until Old Trafford. When it didn't we were screwed.

We have a fantastic back 5 for this level and the goalkeeper is a lot to do with that. He's won us numerous games, we have a nice balance in midfield and we have a sprinkle of quality in O'Kane, Stevens and Howe, matchwinners.

Defensive quality is the reason we are where we are, I haven't been to as many games as I'd like this year but there's only been 1 performance where I thought we were really good today and that was Argyle...2nd half. Other than that we've been reslute, we've stayed in games and we've nicked them. Those were the games we didn't win last year, it's not luck it's being more organised and having better defensive players than what we had last year.

This is true royal.

Ellis now features, admittedly alongside a better goalie. And we have a proper manager who seems to know what he is doing.

[Cambridge_Gull]

Totally agree with the views on last night's game in this thread. We WERE lucky last night. Barnet played a system that worked well against us but they couldn't finish in front of goal. We didn't play badly though. Sure, there were mistakes. And Saah in particular I thought really struggled to contain the front two in the first half. In the second half, Torquay played some good passing football and we saw out the game pretty well - one of our true strengths. Rene was amazing for the whole time he was on. Danny similarly played well. Morris came on and had a good spell and should start on Friday. This team just works - really well for many of the reasons laid out by Royalgull. It's a perfect example of the sum of the parts combining to create something special. What a season!!!

[ferrarilover]

Totally agree with the views on last night's game in this thread. We WERE lucky last night. Barnet played a system that worked well against us but they couldn't finish in front of goal. We didn't play badly though. Sure, there were mistakes. And Saah in particular I thought really struggled to contain the front two in the first half. In the second half, Torquay played some good passing football and we saw out the game pretty well - one of our true strengths. Rene was amazing for the whole time he was on. Danny similarly played well. Morris came on and had a good spell and should start on Friday. This team just works - really well for many of the reasons laid out by Royalgull. It's a perfect example of the sum of the parts combining to create something special. What a season!!!

Blue bit contradicts red bit.

The opposition being shit at shooting is not lucky on our part, it's their own fault for not being better. They had three on target to our one. For all their good play and what not, they managed three shots on target, and only a single one of note. This is not luck, it is a poor show from the opposition. Having 20 shots on target, finding a keeper on blinding form (think Bevan against us at home, he will NEVER play that well again if he plays the game for another 50 years). Hitting the referee with half a dozen shots, having 5 stonewall penalties turned down or being flagged offside every time you come forward, THAT is unlucky. Singly failing to muster a meaningful shot in an hour and a half of football is not 'unlucky' Barnet, it's rubbish Barnet.

Have posed this to them (in friendlier terms) on their board, just to see what they'll say.

Matt.

[Cambridge_Gull]

I see your point completely and agree to some extent. The two statements don't really contradict each other though, in-fact if you join them to make a sentence they make perfect sense: "we were lucky last night they couldn't finish in front of goal". Mcleod has scored twenty-odd goals this season. He should have added to that tally last night but he didn't due to unusal incompetence on the night - which was lucky for us.

[Cambridge_Gull]

PS how do I change my favourite player on here?

[Southampton Gull]

In your user control panel mate. Select the Profile tab and scroll down.

[EmetEdadsBeard]

Ok, let's get some perspective here. Izale McLeod is million pound striker who is in completely the wrong division for his talents. Barnet have got a manager In Sanchez who has had a pretty good career, on both sides of the white line. He is certainly capable of arranging Barnet into a formation and method which makes the most of the one and only asset they possess.
Barnet have a game plan, and that game plan is to smash it straight down the middle, and hope that their Championship quality striker can latch into something. Their 'football' relies on little apart from the law of averages.

Those who were there last night saw the home side have, maybe, 10 shots, 8 of which missed the goal by account try mile. Two went over that tall stand at the far end. If you've been to Underhill, you'll appreciate that as quite an achievement.
The run for the penalty was, conservatively, three yards offside. Credit really must go to Bobby for forcing McLeod to attempt to round him, rather than simply shooting into the goal. As for the contact, well, every striker in England would have done exactly the same thing, but it really was a case of McLeod hoofing the ball out for a goal kick, then getting within 5 feet of Bobby and launching himself into the air, arms flailing, legs spread wide, a howl of 'pain' and a buck of the head completed the move. Tom Daly would have been proud.
I'm firmly of the opinion that 'getting away with it' involves more than the opposition being wasteful. Missing a penalty is top of the list of footballing sins. It's not lucky for the oppo striker to be so hopeless as to mis-que from 12 yards, it is simply poor form from the forward.
Equally, it is not lucky from us if they can't shoot straight from open play, or miss decent headed opportunities. To suggest this is akin to suggesting we got lucky because Lionel Messi chose to sign for Barcelona, rather than Barnet, because 'he would have had a hatful last night.'

The real story of the matter is that we gave Barnet every opportunity last night to pick up three points, and they simply were not anywhere near good enough to capitalise. They have forced our keeper into one save (from a long ranger which he saw late and pushed wide, excellently). Aside from this, they asked precious few questions of a Torquay side who are happy to play away from home, against a weaker team, after a long journey and at the end of a very tiring season, played after a very tiring last season, under difficult conditions, with no real change to the starting XI (have a couple played every second of this season, Manse, Oastler, perhaps?)

As I opened with, let's get some perspective. If we can play that far below our usual standards and still get a win, taking into account all of the above, do you really not think that is a GOOD thing?

Matt.

The bits in red completely contradict the bits in blue Matt. McLeod is playing for Barnet for one reason, and that is despite being able to do 100 metres in about 11 seconds he couldn't hit a cows arse with a banjo.