Your starting 11

[portugull]

eight are guaranteed to start if fit

poke
oastler saah downes nico
mansell bodin
howe
I think Martin will play lathrope and stevens but I am not sure who will be the final name in midfield.
I am pretty sure it will be one of three namely jarvis ,morris or easton.
it is a difficult decision.jarvis is the more attacking option easton the safe option and morris I just dont know with him
the big difference for me is that the bench will be very much stronger than last season and I feel macklin will definitely feature.

[mickyflash]

There is no way Easton will start in front of Lathrope so I wouldn't worry too much about that andy.

I didn't think the thread title said "Who do you think Martin Lings 11 will be?"

As I saw it it asked for posters opinions on there strongest side, and if I were to pick the starting 11 on the 18th against Fleetwood, Easton would be in my side ahead of Lathrope. Putting all loyalties aside Easton is a better player. (This opinion is not formed on "a couple of friendlies", I have seen him play on numerous occasions.

Damo did tremendous for us for the most part of last season, he played above his level and that started to show during the run in. I think its forgotten sometimes that he is still only 22 and this competition for places will be very healthy for his development, but this season I don't feel we need to force it like we had to last year.

Martin may go with Damo, at the start of the season, due to the performances he put in, but in my opinion over the course of the season we will see Manse & Easton form a very good partnership in the middle of the park.

[Richinns]

Yep. Lathrope played nigh on every game for us and we got to the playoffs. He's not going to be dropped any time soon and nor should he on the back of a couple of meaningless friendly games.

If some of these sides were selected I'd give up any remaining hope right now.

Remaining hope for what exactly? You seem very negative at the moment? (overly IMO)

[royalgull]

I'd see myself more realistic than negative.

I think we'll be midtable, i think any better than that with the players we have would be an overachievement, again. Not impossible but IMO unlikely.

I'm also basing my midtable prediction on the fact our goalkeeper won us about 5 or 6 games last season in which we weren't very good in. That won't happen as often this season.

[royalgull]

I didn't think the thread title said "Who do you think Martin Lings 11 will be?"
As I saw it it asked for posters opinions on there strongest side, and if I were to pick the starting 11 on the 18th against Fleetwood, Easton would be in my side ahead of Lathrope. Putting all loyalties aside Easton is a better player. (This opinion is not formed on "a couple of friendlies", I have seen him play on numerous occasions.

Damo did tremendous for us for the most part of last season, he played above his level and that started to show during the run in. I think its forgotten sometimes that he is still only 22 and this competition for places will be very healthy for his development, but this season I don't feel we need to force it like we had to last year.

Martin may go with Damo, at the start of the season, due to the performances he put in, but in my opinion over the course of the season we will see Manse & Easton form a very good partnership in the middle of the park.

Fair point, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how ridiculous some of them are.

[ferrarilover]

Whats bizarre is wanting to replace players that were very good for us last season over 48 competitve league games for blokes that have done ok in a couple offriendlies. Thankfully there is no chance in hell of it happening.

Craig won't be used from the start, he's a young lad with ZERO minutes of first team football under his belt, he'll be introduced to things slowly over the course of the season if they think he's good enough, to have him as a direct replacement for arguably the best creative midfield player in the league last year is laughable. Playing against a half arsed Leeds side where tackling is an after thought is completely different to a proper league game. Same for Macklin, I like Lloyd as a player mainly because he reminds me of an early Carayol who could develop a similar way but he's nowhere near the finished product. Stevens scored 10 goals for us last season and over the course of it probably had his most consistent season in his time here. There is no way he should be dropped either especially not for a player that 3 weeks ago was 100% going out the door. Macklin still has loads to do to get a starting spot, he should be sub and he should be used against tiring legs with 20/25mins to go.

The likes of Lathrope, Stevens, Morris all deserve the first crack at it in the side. They are all experienced, proven players in this league who did well for us last year to want to replace them with unproven kids on the back of a few meaningless matches is like i say, mental.

You know who was good for us over the course of TWO whole seasons? Tim Sills, where's he these days? Last year doesn't matter if a guy who just has more talent turns up. If we sign Wayne Rooney on loan, are we going to bench him (yeah yeah, it's another Americanism) just because Rene played a blinder for us last time out?
To make it mathematical, and therefore easier to follow, let us use some sort of rating system:

Lathrope

Tackling 8/10
Passing 5/10
Heading 7/10
Positioning 6/10
Gooey eyed sentimentality about his performances last year 0/10 because it doesn't count for any points across the season.

Total - 26/40

Easton

Tackling 7/10
Passing 9/10
Heading 7/10
Positioning 8/10

Total - 30/40

Huzzah, so with Easton in the side, we are a better team, which is what I am interested in, not 'giving the bloke a chance' because he was here last year and did ok. This isn't Starbucks, it's not first come first served, it's Starbucks in Russia, the most powerful get served first.

Regards NC, I (and others) have already mentioned that we have seen him in competitive and non competitive games and he is absolutely brilliant. He is a natural successor to Eunan, both in style and ability. Flash passing and playmaking is not Billy Bodin's strength. If we play him in the Eunan role, we will waste his talent for goalscoring and be a lesser prospect going forward than if we have NC pulling the strings and Billy on the end to apply a deadly finish (see Stoke for evidence of his finishing). This football marlarky can be a really simple game, if you have a manager who puts the right players in the right positions.
We have a playmaker, a Paul Scholes, in NC. We have a Roy Keane, in Manse. We have a Ryan Giggs, in Billy Bodin and we have a Dennis Irwin, in Craig Easton. To either swap them around on the pitch, or to leave them out altogether in favour of last year's clique would be to suggest that Sir Alex Ferguson was wrong about that Man Utd team.

Matt.

Yes, I know it won't happen, I know ML will stick with what he knows and that Royal, ultimately, knows this too, but it doesn't make it right.

[cambgull]

Craig Easton is Dennis Irwin? I'd say Nico was more like Irwin, what with him being a left back 'n' all.

[Richinns]

Fair point, everyone is entitled to an opinion no matter how ridiculous some of them are.

Very condescending. Truth be told - you are coming across of a bit of a dick at the moment

[royalgull]

You know who was good for us over the course of TWO whole seasons? Tim Sills, where's he these days? Last year doesn't matter if a guy who just has more talent turns up. If we sign Wayne Rooney on loan, are we going to bench him (yeah yeah, it's another Americanism) just because Rene played a blinder for us last time out?
To make it mathematical, and therefore easier to follow, let us use some sort of rating system:

Lathrope

Tackling 8/10
Passing 5/10
Heading 7/10
Positioning 6/10
Gooey eyed sentimentality about his performances last year 0/10 because it doesn't count for any points across the season.

Total - 26/40

Easton

Tackling 7/10
Passing 9/10
Heading 7/10
Positioning 8/10

Total - 30/40

Huzzah, so with Easton in the side, we are a better team, which is what I am interested in, not 'giving the bloke a chance' because he was here last year and did ok. This isn't Starbucks, it's not first come first served, it's Starbucks in Russia, the most powerful get served first.

Regards NC, I (and others) have already mentioned that we have seen him in competitive and non competitive games and he is absolutely brilliant. He is a natural successor to Eunan, both in style and ability. Flash passing and playmaking is not Billy Bodin's strength. If we play him in the Eunan role, we will waste his talent for goalscoring and be a lesser prospect going forward than if we have NC pulling the strings and Billy on the end to apply a deadly finish (see Stoke for evidence of his finishing). This football marlarky can be a really simple game, if you have a manager who puts the right players in the right positions.
We have a playmaker, a Paul Scholes, in NC. We have a Roy Keane, in Manse. We have a Ryan Giggs, in Billy Bodin and we have a Dennis Irwin, in Craig Easton. To either swap them around on the pitch, or to leave them out altogether in favour of last year's clique would be to suggest that Sir Alex Ferguson was wrong about that Man Utd team.

Matt.

Yes, I know it won't happen, I know ML will stick with what he knows and that Royal, ultimately, knows this too, but it doesn't make it right.

This is fun, I now get to dissect this absolute LOL of a post bit by bit.

The Tim Sills bit, horses for courses he was good in the division below with the style we employed. He wasn't good enough for the Football League he had to be replaced along with others after he was given a chance. Lathrope proved last year he was more than good enough for a team that finished 5th in League 2. If we had more decent forward players we would have gone up. Lathrope was a little unsung hero last season and I see no reason why we are all adament he should be dropped from a position he made his own not just last season but the back end of the year before as well.

Signing someone like Wayne Rooney or a better example would be Billy Bodin who clearly improves the side from last year of course changes things. I expect bodin to start on one of the flanks because he's better than any of our current options. This is not the case for Craig Easton or Nathan Craig. Easton was on trial for quite a bit before he signed, if he was that much better or a clear improvement on what we had at the time, don't you think Ling would have signed him immediately? As it happens, we signed Easton when it was clear Eunan was off to give us some cover, experienced cover for this current season.

No mickey mouse opinion based scoring system makes Easton a better player. He's 33, had a few clubs recently who have all moved him on and he's coming into a squad that finished 5th last year. It's your opinion that makes us a better team with him instead of Lathrope, based only one can assume on some friendly games. So completely dismissing 48 competitive matches in this league, because Easton has possibly outperformed Lathrope against Exeter and a jetlagged Stoke side we are now bringing him in for one of our stalwarts of last season. While we're on this theme, Ricey has been better than Poke so far, do we play Ricey? Or how about Tom Cruise I've heard nothing bad about him, lets drop Nicholson as well.

With regards Nathan Craig you haven't seen him in a competitive match because since his time at Torquay united he hasn't played a single minute of first team football. FACT. Again if Martin Ling thought we had the next Eunan or somebody who is this superstar head and ahoulders outr best player etc, I am very surprised he never turned to him at the back end of last year when our legs were going and we were chasing a few games. He's a very young player who clearly must have some talent but he's come from a mince league, will be very raw and needs slowly bringing through into the side. Which is what will happen, I am certain in exactly the same way Buckle did with Eunan when he first arrived.

There is no clique about it, it's about rewarding players that have proved over the course of a season/2 seasons or more that they are our best players and best team for the immediate future. That may well change over the course of the season, players will get injuries, suspensions and some will lose form, this is when these other lads will get their chance and that's when they have to take it and put a marker down.

Had we finished 3rd bottom and mass change needed I'd be in favour of change. When you lot spat the dummy out and wanted to sack Buckle for daring to get rid of Todd, Sills and Hargreaves some of us could see the bigger picture. That was the time change of personell and philosophy was absolutely needed. Right now after finishing 5th it's small details that are required not wholesale change. We need to find the right partner for Damo and Manse, it might be Easton it might be Craig it mmight be Morris or somebody not here yet, we need Aaron Downes to stay fit and we need Michael Poke to get to somewhere near his best form. We don't need to be mending things that aren't broke.

[royalgull]

Very condescending. Truth be told - you are coming across of a bit of a dick at the moment

Couldn't care less, it's an opinion and no amount of insults/scoring systems/other opinions will change it.

i don't think we'll win the league which makes me negative apparently
i don't think our overall squad is better than we had last year, it's at best a par
I don't agree we should change the good things within our team like some do

That's all it is, how you percieve it is up to you.

[Richinns]

Couldn't care less, it's an opinion and no amount of insults/scoring systems/other opinions will change it.

i don't think we'll win the league which makes me negative apparently
i don't think our overall squad is better than we had last year, it's at best a par
I don't agree we should change the good things within our team like some do

That's all it is, how you percieve it is up to you.

Correct - your opinion which is fine. The question is who are you to judge that anyone else's is ridiculous if it does not happen to agree with yours?

[royalgull]

I just said anyone is entitled to an opinion even if it's ridiculous

People can disagree with me, no problem most probably will do. Although if most disagree with me with my point of us not replacing the good already in our team I'd be actually a bit worried. I find the notion of that idea completely mental

[ferrarilover]

This is fun, I now get to dissect this absolute LOL of a post bit by bit.

The Tim Sills bit, horses for courses he was good in the division below with the style we employed. He wasn't good enough for the Football League he had to be replaced along with others after he was given a chance. Lathrope proved last year he was more than good enough for a team that finished 5th in League 2. If we had more decent forward players we would have gone up. Lathrope was a little unsung hero last season and I see no reason why we are all adament he should be dropped from a position he made his own not just last season but the back end of the year before as well.

Horses for courses, DL was good enough for a team finishing 5th last year, but not good enough for this year's team, containing Easton, which will finish third. If we had had the same forward players and a better covering midfielder, someone like, say, Craig Easton, we would have gone up. The argument works both ways.

Signing someone like Wayne Rooney or a better example would be Billy Bodin who clearly improves the side from last year of course changes things. I expect bodin to start on one of the flanks because he's better than any of our current options. This is not the case for Craig Easton or Nathan Craig. Easton was on trial for quite a bit before he signed, if he was that much better or a clear improvement on what we had at the time, don't you think Ling would have signed him immediately? As it happens, we signed Easton when it was clear Eunan was off to give us some cover, experienced cover for this current season.

The first half of this is pure opinion, Bodin is better than our current wide options, I'll agree, but then it's my opinion that Easton is a better bet than Lathrope and I'm really not sure how anyone could possibly contest that Morris (who is surely the only one capable of consideration for filling the Eunan role) could be a better bet than NC in the middle.

Neither of us is privy to the thoughts of ML, the state of play at the club, or any of the million and one other considerations surrounding the timing of the Easton signing, so it's a meaningless argument. I know from speaking to him at reserve matches involving Easton that ML was absolutely delighted with Easton's form.

No mickey mouse opinion based scoring system makes Easton a better player. He's 33, had a few clubs recently who have all moved him on and he's coming into a squad that finished 5th last year. It's your opinion that makes us a better team with him instead of Lathrope, based only one can assume on some friendly games. So completely dismissing 48 competitive matches in this league, because Easton has possibly outperformed Lathrope against Exeter and a jetlagged Stoke side we are now bringing him in for one of our stalwarts of last season. While we're on this theme, Ricey has been better than Poke so far, do we play Ricey? Or how about Tom Cruise I've heard nothing bad about him, lets drop Nicholson as well.

It's not Mickey Mouse just because you don't happen to agree with it. I wouldn't necessarily disagree with playing Ricey ahead of Pokey, and am considering a thread on the very subject. Not hearing anything bad about a boy isn't the same as seeing with your own eyes a player that could well be better than what we already have.

With regards Nathan Craig you haven't seen him in a competitive match because since his time at Torquay united he hasn't played a single minute of first team football. FACT. Again if Martin Ling thought we had the next Eunan or somebody who is this superstar head and ahoulders outr best player etc, I am very surprised he never turned to him at the back end of last year when our legs were going and we were chasing a few games. He's a very young player who clearly must have some talent but he's come from a mince league, will be very raw and needs slowly bringing through into the side. Which is what will happen, I am certain in exactly the same way Buckle did with Eunan when he first arrived.

Reserve games are competitive. He comes from that well known 'mince' league, the Premiership, where he spent a number of years with Everton before being released and heading home to find some regular football. I am, of course, referring here to Eunan O'Kane, but if you can think of anyone else to whom this applies, you be sure to let me know...

What will happen and what should happen are a couple of completely different things. Chuck the kid in at the deep end, he'll flourish.

It doesn't matter that ML didn't think he was better than Eunan, Eunan isn't here anymore, so he only has to be better than Morris, which he is.

There is no clique about it, it's about rewarding players that have proved over the course of a season/2 seasons or more that they are our best players and best team for the immediate future. That may well change over the course of the season, players will get injuries, suspensions and some will lose form, this is when these other lads will get their chance and that's when they have to take it and put a marker down.

Football isn't about reward, it's about the best XI available at the time. Do it the other way round, shake the tree, put Easton and NC in for the first few matches, if we tank, then so be it, if we don't Lathrope and Morris will work double hard to get back in the team. Either that, or they won't bother and they can happily be shown the door.

Had we finished 3rd bottom and mass change needed I'd be in favour of change. When you lot spat the dummy out and wanted to sack Buckle for daring to get rid of Todd, Sills and Hargreaves some of us could see the bigger picture. That was the time change of personell and philosophy was absolutely needed. Right now after finishing 5th it's small details that are required not wholesale change. We need to find the right partner for Damo and Manse, it might be Easton it might be Craig it mmight be Morris or somebody not here yet, we need Aaron Downes to stay fit and we need Michael Poke to get to somewhere near his best form. We don't need to be mending things that aren't broke.

I'm not mending, I'm tweaking. Tweaking us up from 5th and playoff disappointment which was absolutely the best that last year's mob could offer, to 3rd, which will require a mild mannered change of personnel.

As an aside, there was no dummy spitting from me over Sills et al, I wasn't amused, but I wasn't THAT upset. For someone who can see the bigger picture and doesn't appear to appreciate people hung up on sentiment, you seem to be hung up on an awful lot of sentiment.

We, between us, clearly differ in our approach to management. We'll never know which system would carry more success, because we can't play both in the real world.

Matt.

[gullsflyinghigh]

Poke
Oastler---Saah---Downes---Nico
Mansell---Lathrope---Easton
Bodin---Stevens
Howe

Subs: Rice, Cruise, Craig, Macklin, Jarvis, Morris, Leadbitter

Plenty of options and healthy competition for places which can only be a good thing

[royalgull]

Matt, you and I disagree in method but in the words of Belinda Carlisle, we dream the same dream we want the same thing.