Port Vale v Torquay United - 1/9/12

[royalgull]

This problem has largely been caused by Ling's re-evaluation on Tom Cruise. Having stated on Cruise's arrival his ability to play at centre-back was one of the reasons he'd been brought in to replace Rowe-Turner, Ling's now decided/realised he can't.

On the 20min showing on Saturday, Cruise can't play at RB, either, nor can Oastler play at CB. Despite suggestions we're working to bring someone in before Saturday, I reckon Ling will stick to his mistrust of loan signings. If that's the case, I, too, would much rather see MacKenzie start than two players play out of position.

Definitely one of Ling's few mistakes for me. When LRT went the reasoning was Ling felt he couldn't play centre back and we needed one that was a left back first who could play CB which he thought he had with Cruise. He's now said Cruise can't play centre back, the irony being LRT has played every game for Luton in central defense so far!!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Definitely one of Ling's few mistakes for me. When LRT went the reasoning was Ling felt he couldn't play centre back and we needed one that was a left back first who could play CB which he thought he had with Cruise. He's now said Cruise can't play centre back, the irony being LRT has played every game for Luton in central defense so far!!

Yeah and look how that turned out!!

They've only kept one clean sheet!

[ferrarilover]

It's one game and it's against fairly average L2 opponents. If we were playing B
Barnet, I'd play MacKenzie anyway. If we were playing Oxford, then I wouldn't. We're playing PV, who sit right between those two extremes.
Bugger it, chuck him in anyway, he's tall, has Brian Saah, Nico and JOastler around him and Pokey behind. It's not like we're replacing the whole back 5. I'd feel a little better if DL was available, but then equally, I'd feel a little better if Jaap Stam was available, so it's a moot point.
He is just 1/11th of the team, even if he has a terrible game, we're still asking the Vale strikers to take advantage. We're also asking our strikers not to be capable of simply outscoring Vale to negate any defensive weakness.
Playing men out of position will weaken us at least as much as having the youngster on the pitch, so throw him in.
With plenty of support from the traveling fans (more 'come on Kyrtis' and less bollocks about seats and rape), he'll come though reasonably well.
Worst comes to the worst, we sub him off and go to plan B.

Matt.

[royalgull]

Yeah and look how that turned out!!

They've only kept one clean sheet!

So have we.

[royalgull]

It's one game and it's against fairly average L2 opponents. If we were playing B
Barnet, I'd play MacKenzie anyway. If we were playing Oxford, then I wouldn't. We're playing PV, who sit right between those two extremes.
Bugger it, chuck him in anyway, he's tall, has Brian Saah, Nico and JOastler around him and Pokey behind. It's not like we're replacing the whole back 5. I'd feel a little better if DL was available, but then equally, I'd feel a little better if Jaap Stam was available, so it's a moot point.
He is just 1/11th of the team, even if he has a terrible game, we're still asking the Vale strikers to take advantage. We're also asking our strikers not to be capable of simply outscoring Vale to negate any defensive weakness.
Playing men out of position will weaken us at least as much as having the youngster on the pitch, so throw him in.
With plenty of support from the traveling fans (more 'come on Kyrtis' and less bollocks about seats and rape), he'll come though reasonably well.
Worst comes to the worst, we sub him off and go to plan B.

Matt.

Agree with Matt. I'd rather specialists in positions and the thought of Oastler playing centre back frightens me. If we don't think he's good enough then there is no point having him involved in the first team squad, we're wasting a place on the bench.

This stage of the season, for one game, lets have a look.

[happytorq]

Could be the making of him. Chuck him in, if he does well then there's some competition, and if he has a bit of a mare, we'll not be too hard on him and coach him to step back in in the future.

What's the worst that can happen? It's the 4th game of a very long season. Even if he scores 2 own goals and we get tonked 5-0 we have plenty of time. And I think it's important to demonstrate to the younger players that the club is willing to give them a chance.

[stevegull]

Anyone thought of chucking Easton in there? Has a good experienced head, seems to know how to tackle and challenge effectively in the air. I realise that creates more holes in our midfield options, but I just wanted to put it forward as an option.

[Plymouth Gull]

Too small for my liking. Vale have an inform Tom Pope up top who's a bit of a brute. He's likely to be partnered by Louis Dodds aswell, so I wouldn't really fancy Easton there. Also, if Easton does fill in, we'll be a midfielder short.

[Jerry]

What's the worst that can happen? It's the 4th game of a very long season. Even if he scores 2 own goals and we get tonked 5-0 we have plenty of time. And I think it's important to demonstrate to the younger players that the club is willing to give them a chance.

I cannot understand this notion that it's early in the season so games aren't as important! It's 3 points for a win at any stage of the season! How many times have we missed out on promotion/play-offs/staying up by a point or 2 (or even goal difference)? If we finish fourth, 2 points shy of going up, any points dropped at this stage of the season will be as much to blame as losing in the last month.

As for the question at hand... I'd go with the young lad, he's got to play his first game at some point so why not now? It's not going to help his confidence if the manager doesn't trust him to do the job he's paid for.

[nicktufc]

I would very much rather see McKenzie play than start shifting other players and having 2 or 3 players out of position. McKenzie is a centre back, and he's been given a deal for a reason. Let's see if he's good enough, there's certainly not much pressure on him, and it will be better for him to play than to watch someone out of position play there. If he doesn't do well, then he certainly can't complain if he's overlooked next time.
It also makes sense as it's only a 1 match suspension, so there is little point in signing someone on loan, as Downes will almost certainly step straight back in next week.

[ferrarilover]

I find it bizarre that people think this game is any less important than the 45 others? Just because it is 4th game in does not in mean there are any less points on offer than other league games.

Regardless of the decision - it is great that we are having this conversation as it shows that this is the first time we a really seeing anybody come through the youth system. Halpin threatened it but has yet to show it and Yeoman has always been on the fringes.
Is it the right time for Mackenzie? - Ling will know better than us so I trust his judgement.

I made this point in another thread earlier in the week, can't remember which one. Absolutely right, you get three points for winning game 1 and you get the same for winning game 46. If we lose to Port Vale through a MacKenzie mistake and miss out on the autos by 2 points, then it will be just as costly as if we lose out by the same margin, but it's an error against Bristol Rovers (the last match of the season).

Matt.

[happytorq]

I was simply saying that it's easier to make up ground when there are 42 games than when there are 2 games left. If we have to give Mackenzie a try I'd far rather it be at this stage of the season when there is sufficient time for the team to make amends if it does goes wrong.

[AustrianAndyGull]

20 quid to get in on saturday apparently. The words Dick Turpin and mask spring to mind.

[Gulliball]

That was Jim Carrey.

[harpenden gull]

Hi Arsene can we borrow a centre half please.

Bonjour Martin le Ling ..........Oui of course how long do you want him for?

Hmmmmmmmm one match please.

phone goes dead