Something Odd but Something Familiar

[y_e_l_l_o_w]

I like to not post on a Saturday, always a day full of emotions, sometimes joy, sometimes satisfaction, on occasions dismay and nearly always a day full of envy. Anyway, here it goes after some time to reflect. Firstly I cast your memories back to a piece produced on the club website before the season kick off that included elements from Martin Ling. I think I wasn’t the only one surprised to see him make an early claim for automatic promotion but needless to say it was good to say a Torquay manager brimming with confidence so early in the season; albeit a little premature in my opinion. As with most avid fans I was more than happy to go with the flow and see what happened over the coming weeks...
It has in fact been that statement made by Ling and the coming weeks which came that have led me to believe the statement to be in my own words a bit bizarre. It is easy to make squad size excuses, injuries and the rub of the green to be taken into account but for the fourth game running Torquay (aside from Rochdale) Torquay have been the same old Torquay since the appointment of Martin Ling. I know Ling is developing a name for himself in this neck of the woods with last seasons well employed smash and grab tactics but as I previously pointed out, this is not the way to get automatic promotion.
It is amazing to see the youth finally coming afore but would we be saying the same thing if a loan player had come in and scored the winner.
Finally I cast my mind back to an earlier post I made about Cheltenham being tipped as there or there abouts, I will stick with my prediction of mid table and my view that the 2-2 draw with Cheltenham was a poor result.
What I am wondering is how long we can keep employing these tactics and attitude in view of creating success, I want to see us produce some fantastic youth and am very prepared to wait for on the pitch results but do you not think it would then be sensible to tone down the season ambitions and the expectations on the pitch so that everybody is singing from the same sheet. Including the players! Cheers people, have a good day! YELLOW!

[Neal]

Good post Yellow. I made a point in another thread that I think there are a number of teams who could do well, maybe playoffs and could also be struggling near the bottom. I think the margins this season will be very very tight, a few injuries to key players will make all the difference whether your near the top or bottom. It was said a number of times that last season the division was poor, well I think this year the division will be a good standard on the whole. Look at the results so far, some really odd results, Exeter for example, lost at home first game now they are winning by 3. Have we played the best teams in the division so far or have Exeter, mmmm.... Im not sure we know that yet, Cheltenham were predicted to be a auto prommotion this season, Im not so sure.

IMO our season will depend entirely on keeping our core team fit, it that doesnt happen then palyoffs wont happen. But it will be an interesting season I think with many ups and downs. Njoy!

[Kernowgull]

All he sqid is he is aiming for automatic promotion. Every team should be. What do you want him to say? "We'll try and win some games, but not all of them"

I have only seen the Rochdale game, and up to the red card, we looked every bit promotion contenders. I certainly dont think we're dead certain to be up there, but being resolute and hard to beat, even when not playibg well is definitely a quality champions have. If the resoluteness is always there and we can work on the football we played against Rochdale, while not losing when it doesnt come off, we'll be there or thereabouts

[ferrarilover]

Fleetwood was a typical first game of the season, we were playing a promoted side away from home, almost anything could have happened.
Cheltenham was a brilliant game, some excellent football from both sides, quite why they're likely to finish mid-table I'm not sure. That said, we could and should have won the match handsomely given the chances we created.
Rochdale was similar, except we were genuinely the better of two decent sides, rather than merely the more creative.
Yesterday was as expected for me. We know we have a small squad, but we were missing Danny, Easton, Macklin, Downer, Lathrope, that's 25% of the squad, yet we went to Port Vale and got a point and, but for an own goal, admirably withstood everything the opposition threw at us.

Win your home games, draw your away games, get 92 points, win the league. Simples.

Matt.

[hector]

I thought we played very well in both the home games and looked every inch a team that might challenge. Every team is going to have off days. Look at how accomplished Cheltenham were against us, yet their result yesterday was awful.

Our two away games have been amongst our toughest on paper in my view. Rotherham away will be tough, so will places like Oxford and Southend. But Fleetwood on the first day was a hiding to nothing and Port Vale away, is a tough place to play. The fact that we have come away from those two games unbeaten (perhaps we would have won yesterday if Saah's freak own goal not happened) sort of vindicates Ling's strategy, especially in view of the players we had missing yesterday.

On paper, the opening 4 games against the richest club in the league who walked the conference, last years play-off finalists, a team down from League 1 and Port Vale are tough games. You could compare these to Exeter's games and say they are probably a tougher start but Exeter's team isn't bad and in Aarron Davies they made a great signing, in my view.

I think League 2 is quite tough this year and whilst I would like us to have a further attacking threat when Howe is not playing, we have scored 6 in two games at home and only conceded one (a freakish own goal) away. I would have settled for what we have done so far before these four games. I just hope our first defeat is not on Saturday.

[stevegull]

Fleetwood was a typical first game of the season, we were playing a promoted side away from home, almost anything could have happened.
Cheltenham was a brilliant game, some excellent football from both sides, quite why they're likely to finish mid-table I'm not sure. That said, we could and should have won the match handsomely given the chances we created.
Rochdale was similar, except we were genuinely the better of two decent sides, rather than merely the more creative.
Yesterday was as expected for me. We know we have a small squad, but we were missing Danny, Easton, Macklin, Downer, Lathrope, that's 25% of the squad, yet we went to Port Vale and got a point and, but for an own goal, admirably withstood everything the opposition threw at us.

Win your home games, draw your away games, get 92 points, win the league. Simples.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I speak mainly as someone who watches a lot of away games and the tactics and style deployed by Martin away from home have not changed this season from what it was last. In many games last season we were dominated by the opposition, looked slow and lethargic especially in attack and slow to get men forward. We 'stole' games last season when we should have been out of sight and that is what has happened this against Fleetwood and Vale. I know people will come on here and say if we have one shot at goal all game and it goes in then whats the problem? The problem for me is we NEED to be more adventurous going forward. Midfield and defence are fine, they battle hard and put themselves about left right and centre in the hope that our attackers may get that ONE breakaway which we score from to ease the pressure. We get the goal and then sit back and get battered for the rest of the game. Why don't we push on and go for a second? It is sterile, dull, boring and with the personnel we have lost mid season we will receive a few hefty thumpings this season playing like that. We will be hammered at Rotherham if we play like that because they aren't going to miss the multitude of goalscoring opportunities that Fleetwood and Vale did. Like Matt says, we withstood everything the opposition threw at us which is correct; however, i feel that ironically let us down just at the wrong time last season. At the end of last season we looked totally spent, completely knackered, all those away games hanging on for grim death for a 1-0 with a paper thin squad took it's toll in the end and we had given everything by April. Yes you can play defensive all the time and hope to nick a 1-0 and it worked a lot last season but this season I just can't see us having the same success. Again i only saw two home games which we played with a lot more attacking threat and purpose but i can't really say if we are more gung ho at home as i don't go a lot. I know we have injuries and inexperienced players coming in but we NEED some more at the other end. I believe we have got cracking players in attack but they need to be more confident and direct. The stats say we have not lost away this season but i sometimes have to urge myself to travel because i know the performance is going to be exactly the same with little excitement for us going forward. All the excitement is about seeing us keep the opposition out. Like i said, we're in for it big time when we face the Milles. In Martin i trust though, i'm not having a go at him because he massively overachieved last season, i think this season will see us aroun about where we should really be.

[y_e_l_l_o_w]

Thank you for the replies and responses, it isnt that I don't agree with farrarilover reponse but more so I can't. Firstly lets be honest as many people have reviewed Vale and Fleetwood destroyed us and we got away with a point on each occasion, and yes up until the red card against Rochdale I think I would say we outplayed them totally so the home advantage swang in our favour but lets look at something....

Apart from Wimbledon at home last season can anyone remember us dominating games in the fashion that Vale did on Saturday? It doesnt make them a better team but it does mean than percentages would probably equal to us losing more points at home than they will. A bold statement saying Win all home games, draw away games and promoted when we have already dropped points at home.

I am a very avid TUFC fan but I am also a realist that likes to share my views every now and then and I enjoy the feedback, I know that replies will normally be biased and sometimes I too leave a biased post as I should do being a TUFC fan, these are only my views afterall.

Finally with reference to Cheltenham you asked why I predict mid table for them rather than promotion candidates.... I think they have a lucid attack but that their defence is poor as exploited by Accrington at the weekend. Just a hunch thats all.

Cheers people.

YELLOW

[brucie]

Yes we are midtable at best. Lets be honest we are ok with our full team out but basically after that we are stuffed. Having seen both the two home games we will score more goals than last year - thats a dead cert. Bodin and Howe are a potent threat, and with the emergence of Thompson,Stevens to come back, Macklin if he morphs into a footballer. We look ok.
We look ok ish defensively as well, but really are a striker and a centre half short. Midfield we look a little lightweight.
We did well to get a point yesterday but if wqe go on parading that line upo for very long we will get found out.

[Dave]

Yellow with the dashs, you were not wrong to post your concerns, I do agree, however only in part, was not at the game however I do go to every home match and get to about 2-3 away games every season, I stated in the match thread that we can at times be far to defensive and I stand by that, I also said going away to Vale is tough game for any team, and we must not forget we went with a very young makeshift side which made the task that much harder.

Not just away, there was a few games at home I thought the team conceeded to much possession however won the matchs, was it down to luck, not sure, sometimes when you come under pressure it takes a bit of bravery, push an extra body or two forward, speed up the passing, nobody need tell football isn't that simple or clear cut I know, however if we had tried that against Vale, you never know, we may just have got Tompson into the game more, got him running at there full back, which in turn would have forced them to drop a player out of midfield to double up on Tompson thus relieving some of the pressure, not saying that would have worked, it may not, that said I fully realise that Martin Ling knows a hell of lot more than I do, also knows the abilty and limitations of the players.

To pick up on what your saying about expectation, as said above Lingy was only saying promotion was what he is after, and after two play-off seasons he in my view is not wrong to expect that , and as for him and the player lowering the expectation, that would on the whole be a massive mistake, you want new people who like football moving into the bay to be excited about TUFC, you want stay away and floating fans to re-discover their passion for Torquay united , thats not going happen if Lingy and the players are talking about a tough league thats going to be a struggle.

I know that every set of three points are just as important whether its game 1 or 31, however its far, far to early to panic about our own situation, or to judge other teams as promotion contenders or not as the case may be, promotion was never won in September, and as we found out lasts eason its not allways won in March either, look at Crewe, look at where Crewe were in the table at christmas and their now a league 1 side.

There is no doubt in my mind the likes of Cheltenham and Fleetwood will be knocking on the door in May, and Vale won't be to far away either, couple that with the fact so far we not been able to play our strongest side and are unbeaten think we don't have to much to worry about its all good, would like to us be a bit expansive in our play though.

[Kernowgull]

But we wont play that line up for long, Id wager thats the only time we'll see it all season. Ling will add one or two more, as he has said, but he has never rushed signings, and he should continue with this ethos. If we finish mid table, not the end of the world, but Id wager with Ling at the helm we'll be troubling the top of the table a few times over the next few years.

We are in a very good position as a club, regardless of where we ultimately finish this season (thats 42 games away, by the way!)

[AustrianAndyGull]

I'm pleased that he has signed Bodin and we've got Thompson and Macklin when he's back. Pace and trickery that we should start using to our advantage.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Yellow with the dashs, you were not wrong to post your concerns, I do agree, however only in part, was not at the game however I do go to every home match and get to about 2-3 away games every season, I stated in the match thread that we can at times be far to defensive and I stand by that, I also said going away to Vale is tough game for any team, and we must not forget we went with a very young makeshift side which made the task that much harder.

Not just away, there was a few games at home I thought the team conceeded to much possession however won the matchs, was it down to luck, not sure, sometimes when you come under pressure it takes a bit of bravery, push an extra body or two forward, speed up the passing, nobody need tell football isn't that simple or clear cut I know, however if we had tried that against Vale, you never know, we may just have got Tompson into the game more, got him running at there full back, which in turn would have forced them to drop a player out of midfield to double up on Tompson thus relieving some of the pressure, not saying that would have worked, it may not, that said I fully realise that Martin Ling knows a hell of lot more than I do, also knows the abilty and limitations of the players.

To pick up on what your saying about expectation, as said above Lingy was only saying promotion was what he is after, and after two play-off seasons he in my view is not wrong to expect that , and as for him and the player lowering the expectation, that would on the whole be a massive mistake, you want new people who like football moving into the bay to be excited about TUFC, you want stay away and floating fans to re-discover their passion for Torquay united , thats not going happen if Lingy and the players are talking about a tough league thats going to be a struggle.

I know that every set of three points are just as important whether its game 1 or 31, however its far, far to early to panic about our own situation, or to judge other teams as promotion contenders or not as the case may be, promotion was never won in September, and as we found out lasts eason its not allways won in March either, look at Crewe, look at where Crewe were in the table at christmas and their now a league 1 side.

There is no doubt in my mind the likes of Cheltenham and Fleetwood will be knocking on the door in May, and Vale won't be to far away either, couple that with the fact so far we not been able to play our strongest side and are unbeaten think we don't have to much to worry about its all good, would like to us be a bit expansive in our play though.

Thats all i want too. Not to play like Barcelona but to just have more impetus and confidence in attack and give the opposition something to worry about for a change.

[Plymouth Gull]

I thought we played very well in both the home games and looked every inch a team that might challenge. Every team is going to have off days. Look at how accomplished Cheltenham were against us, yet their result yesterday was awful.

Our two away games have been amongst our toughest on paper in my view. Rotherham away will be tough, so will places like Oxford and Southend. But Fleetwood on the first day was a hiding to nothing and Port Vale away, is a tough place to play. The fact that we have come away from those two games unbeaten (perhaps we would have won yesterday if Saah's freak own goal not happened) sort of vindicates Ling's strategy, especially in view of the players we had missing yesterday.

On paper, the opening 4 games against the richest club in the league who walked the conference, last years play-off finalists, a team down from League 1 and Port Vale are tough games. You could compare these to Exeter's games and say they are probably a tougher start but Exeter's team isn't bad and in Aarron Davies they made a great signing, in my view.

I think League 2 is quite tough this year and whilst I would like us to have a further attacking threat when Howe is not playing, we have scored 6 in two games at home and only conceded one (a freakish own goal) away. I would have settled for what we have done so far before these four games. I just hope our first defeat is not on Saturday.

Thanks for saving me from having to write what I think, Hector.

[bengull]

Yesterday for me was shrouded in extenuating circumstances. At no point for the rest of the season will we start with 3 youngsters with one professional appearance between them, not to mention the least experienced 7 man bench in the history of TUFC. To that extent yesterday's point should be celebrated and not sniffed at. In normal circumstances you could replace the pedestian Bodin and Thompson with Macklin and Stevens and their fresh legs and fresh minds would be far more fruitful than Leadbitter or Cruise who were the only viable options open to the manager at the time.

A series of unfortunate events have left us with Lathrope and Macklin crocked only 10 days ago, Easton pull out on the day of the match and Downes foolishly ruled himself out of yesterday's game too. This would test the limits of any lower league squad. Lingy (as he did for all last season) remained loyal to those he had 'in the building' and we came away with a very creditable point in the face of a complete onslaught for the entire second half. That experience will be vital to the youngsters we were forced to put our trust in.

There is no way we should expect Vale to roll over and die for us just because our manager reckons we will be near the top of the league all year. They were completely ordinary in the first half and Adams obviously read them the riot act at half time and they came out to give their fans something to shout about.They were excellent in the second half at everything but their finishing. I defy many teams to withstand the bombardment that they threw at us, it was a performance full of character.

2 points from 2 very loseable away games represents good value to me. Infact the game i am most fustrated about is Cheltenham where we played expansively, very expansively infact, but squandered too many chances to finish the game off. I don't think we would be having this conversation if we had beat CTFC 4-1 like we should have done, and had 8 points to our credit instead of 6. As our car loving friend said, 'win your home games, don't lose your away games', well we haven't lost an away game yet. Also we are unbeaten.

There is a very fine balance between playing expansively and trying to win the match, and making sure you do not lose that same match . Indeed the blueprint for away games should be making sure you aren't losing after 70 minutes, and then see if you can go on and win in the last 20. With the options available to us on the day it was always going to be a tough ask against Vale, but put back into the squad the 5 we are currently missing and we may have had a better chance.

I have no problem with the cautious approach away from home, I would much prefer to travel home with a well earned point than going home with nothing because we tried to outscore the opponents. A team who is well drilled, disciplined and organised will gain more points over the season than a team that plays with reckless abandon. We are extremely close to being a very good League two side, the players who came in yesterday showed me they are more than handy replacements for the first team players we are missing. But not all 5 in the team at the same time.

Once we get all our missing bodies back and get into our stride it will all come together like it did late October last year. I am adamant Lingy's comments referenced in the OP will ring true. We are looking a lot better and stronger than we did at this stage last season.