Attitudes to the new reality.........

[Dutchgull]

O.K OLD FART WARNING !!

I know this is the age of the internet ,twitter etc BUT it really pisses me off big time when everybody these days expects this club to somehow perform like fecking Barcelona every bloody game and has a go as to why we did not perform.

Everybody now has the opportunity to ultra criticise every fecking thing this club does or doesn't do. Every player is under ultra scrutiny. Why didn't he do this why didn't he do that. Its so irrational & boring BUT look at the situation we are in. Crowds (?) of 2000 and we are expected to produce teams of quality and style.

I am sorry BUT get realistic people.

We are so poor in comparison to even our neighbours Exeter who have gates of over 5000 and dare I say our Cornish "friends" who have at least 6500 who turn up to watch that crap. We on the other hand have to make do with half that or less (1800 FA Cup )but Mr Ling & the board are expected to produce a team of world beaters ?? !!!
PLEASE get fecking real and realise what we follow. A team that is situated in the backwaters of the country A place where hardly a fecker in the bay even cares about the club but we are somehow competing and dare I say over acheiving on what we have.
Yes I understand that people can get pissed off if the team doesn't do this or that BUT please just be bloody happy at we ARE doing !!

Years ago the only contact we had with the club was the report in the Herald Express. These days everything in analysed to the enth degree whereas in the past it would be accepted. Do we expect too much in this day & age ? I personally think so.

It may be the way of the world these days BUT before everybody goes loopy and types responses on the forums please people just pause for a second or two before launching into a tirade of abuse. It may stifle debate BUT I hope it may mean some logical sense is stated rather than a load of ill thought through clap trap that is normally posted !!

OUCH !!

[mus1908]

Well said Dutch, i have long since wondered why people expect Torquay to be something special, when everything points to us being average at best.I can see why fans want their team to play fast flowing, and moving football but most on here seem to expect it,and then get annoyed when we don't! But the players we have are only here because unfortunatley they are not good enough to go elsewhere,obviously there is nothing wrong with wanting your team to perform and be the best, but really look at some of the other teams in the league, do we really expect to go up in the top 3 places, what in god's name makes people think that is really going to happen.Do the Wigan fans get the hump because they aren't top of their league, or unlike a lot of our fans who don't seem to be are they just reallists?

[brucie]

Errrr no we just expect our team not to lose to the likes of Harrogate and Barnet - get real.

[Kernowgull]

Yeah, I mean Barnet and Harrogate should have just let us win, shouldnt they. How dare they disrespect the mighty Torquay United by trying to win.

You sound like the fans of other clubs we mock for thinking they are too big to be playing us.

[Neal]

Totally agree with this post. All the time I'm seeing we need another quality striker, or another midfielder, Gee, who's fecking paying for it then. Remember back to the Bateson days, this club actually as a number of strikers now, we used to have 2, and that was it.

Actually Barnet are a good reference point for us, a club that is on a par with us actually. At 8th in the table we are punching above our weight, look at some of the clubs below us, Bristol Rovers for 1.

We will probably end up mid table this year and with the injuries we've had that will be a good effort. We had Poke, Morris, Macklin, Stevens out injured and Howe suspended, that's 5 players who are potential 1st steamers. TUFC cannot afford to just replace these we have to blood the youth players and I'm pleased we do actually as these guys need a chance. They might not immediately hit the heights expected by some of you, they need time and not critism.

Ling has a ltd budget and I would guess he's keeping any little money he has for towards the end of the season where it might more valuable.

[Chris B]

As always, there needs to be a bit of balance. With our gates, 8th at this stage of the season is no disgrace. A couple of defeats and we'll quickly plummet, such is the closeness of the division, but a mid-table place looks probable and would be adequate.

However, we are allowed to hope for more, particularly in terms of entertainment. That can turn into expectation when we know the players are capable of more, e.g. the Harrogate aberration. But, as I've said previously, maybe Manse, as an example, had a golden season last time out, and he'll never regain that form again, despite his undoubted best efforts. It is also a shame as Saah, Downes and Howe are playing brilliantly, and deserve to be in a side challenging.

We are allowed to thank Martin Ling and praise him for his efforts, but also question certain decisions: Three defensive midfielders at hopeless Barnet and low-confidence Oxford? Nathan Craig on the left-wing? A total waste. Ryan Jarvis and Craig Easton – nice blokes, good pros, but absolutely not what we need(ed). They are players Ling already knew, and knowing he'd release Atieno and most likely lose Eunan, these were surely the easy options for Ling as our disappointing end to last season unfolded and the summer holidays were in sight? Those two and Cruise can hardly be considered sensible uses of the limited budget we know TUFC will always run to.

There does, though, need to be perspective. Constantly berating the manager, as if he wants us to play turgid football and pass to the opposition is nonsensical. And claiming players don't care 'because they get paid anyway' is, well, just idiotic. But Ling needs to act in the loan market, and drafting in CB cover as mooted in the Herald is not the answer! What I'd give for Eunan, Zebs and Rendell/Benyon right now…!

[Gullscorer]

After Martin Ling arrived at the club last year, people were questioning the signings and the abilities of Saah and Howe; who is doing that now? Every manager will sign players who do not fulfill expectations or potential. Every club will release players who go on to perform well for other clubs. But Martin Ling (and for that matter Paul Buckle) has done pretty well for this club, all things considered.

And, all things considered, we should be content to finish the season in a mid-table position. But it only needs the players to click together as a team, avoiding too many injuries and suspensions, and with Lingy bringing in a new player or two as and when required, to go on a good run in the coming months towards an exciting finish to the season.

[Chris B]

Every manager will sign players who do not fulfill expectations or potential.

And that's fine, but look at the case of Ryan Jarvis. Ling knew him from Leyton Orient, and had him on loan with us for more than two months after consulting close friend and Jarvis' then-manager at Walsall, Dean Smith. It should've been pretty obvious by the time the contract was offered that Ryan simply cannot operate in the lone front-man role (nor on the wing, where we've also seen him!), which is integral to the system Ling resolutely sticks to. It's not a case of Jarvis being a terrible player, but Ling needed to sign someone more suited to his chosen formation.

[AustrianAndyGull]

The new reality is that teams like Accrington under Paul Cook had no money and played attractive football with relative success so there is no need for Lingy to remain so defensive. Next time we play away somewhere away with a lot of travelling involved, paying fuel costs, tickets costs, scrabbling around to try and find a babysitter i now have to consider if it's worth busting a gut to go and watch torquay because i know what to expect. Watching Torquay away under Ling has become a grind, a dull brain-draining experience that saps all my hope and excitement i misguidedly had prior to going to the game. I will try to get to as many away games as i can because i want to support the lads but it's not worth it anymore. I'm tired when i get home, not through travelling but because the performances have been so awful and i castigate myself for going. It's just not enjoyable. Just say we we lost 6-0 at Barnet on tuesday and i went, i wouldn't be bothered too much if we then went to Oxford and got back on track with a great performance and won 1-0. Our away scoring record (Brizzle omitted ) is like binary! 0-0, 1-1, 1-0, 1-1, 0-1, 1-0, 0-0 - IT'S F*CKING BORING MARTIN!! If we had won one of those games 3-2 and lost another two we'd have the same points so what's the f*cking point to it all!!? Other teams manage on no money, teams even poorer than us and manage to go out and get more than 3 men over the half way line.

And the acceptance of where we are as a club and we are somehow overachieving and we should be grateful is pathetic. That might have how it used to have been but nowadays you can't get away with survival and charge £17 a game. Fans are going to come back naturally if we are doing well but we are doing well and the fans stay away, maybe has something to do with the fact that we are dull.

I just think that Lingy is a defensive minded manager and has a blind spot when it comes to attack. He honestly 'hope' that his attackers will score rather than expects or demands and so do we. Bloody great isn't it? We don't score enough goals and never have, this needs addressing and now.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Having said of all of that the overriding value of importance for me is entertainment and enjoyment and if i spend the next 40 years watching Torquay hold their own in league 2 and we get value for money on a regular basis then i'll be a very happy man. I'd rather that than be in the Championship and play like we are doing.

[Dave]

Dutch we know each other and allways have an all things TUFC chat when our paths cross, we are both very positive about our club, however there must be as Chris B says balance and some real time honesty aswell, we all see how much progress has been made and what our club has achieved on and off the field these last few years has been nothing far short of a mircale.

Despite being very positive about the club I have found this season very frustrating and I can fully understand why so many others are finding this season as frustrating as me, yes we are in 8th place with more points than this time last year, can someone tell me how because I have not got a clue, we keep talking about being poor away from home, despite being unbeaten at times we have not been that much better at home, we shouldn't be in 8th and wont be for much longer unless things improve on the pitch.

The reason why I adopt this attitude is simple, our current team is better than last years, half of them are not performing, they are capable of so much more thats the problem, and I think the biggest problem at our club is mentality, we have to get away from this tired we are such a small club with no money argument, Cheltenham get just a few 100 more through the gate than us probaly no bigger size club they don't seem to be doing a bad job of building a side that looks every bit capable of a top 3 finish

Honesty from Martin Ling on match performances is fine and something we all like, but when he goes public with we have not enough talent in the squad and cup run was needed to sign a new player, jeez Lingy thats taking honesty just a bit to far and what sort of mentality does that create around the team.

I dont buy into the we lost the spine of the team argument either, Bobby.o was every bit a championship keeper yes, but Pokey is a top keeper at this level and knows our club so well shouldn't have needed time to settle, lost Ellis,yes throw a high ball at him and he would head it for miles other than that he was so highly over-rated it was untrue, Aaron Downes is a country mile better, ok lost Eunan O'Kane he is now bench warming for a struggling league 1 side..was he really that good ? is Nathan Criag not as good ? And finaly released two forward players Mcphee and Atieno and replaced them with just one Ryan Jarvis , so we are short of money we can't really be suggesting Ryan Jarvis has been given a contract equal two to both McPhee and Atieno, and the H/E is suggesting we are about to bring in another defender on loan, come on we don't have a problem at the back..doesn't anyone see a problem here.

As said I am very thankful that our board have not just steered us back to the league but as an established top end league 2 club, we can all see the new stand, new training ground, gulls nest, no10's but this will all be for nothing unless we start to see performances improve, it is not allways about winning, yes that is nice, but fans want to see there team at home more than away control the game press our style on the other team atleast dominate large periods of play, not watch our midfield and defence on the edge of the box hanging on for dear life as we have seen a few times at home and in most away games our low gates will just get lower and lower as fans will not pay to be bored out of there minds.

Yep we are a small club with limited funds and there is plenty to be cheerful about, performances have to improve though.

[Plymouthgull]

I do not expect Torquay to play like Barcelona but I am concerned that our away performances have seemed to be so dire. I have not been to any away games and rely on reports on this forum and listening to the radio and it seems that we spend the vast majority of time defending. Even at home games we have been guilty of sitting too deep and giving far too much possession to the away team. I do not expect us to beat everybody in the league but I would like to be entertained away from home now and again but, we seem to be a very boring team who, without our main striker, have little chance of scoring at all. I am entitled to criticise both the players and Ling if I believe it is justified. This does not make me less of a supporter of TUFC.
I have high expectations of our club and am a little concerned that some say 'remember we are only Torquay surviving on crowds of 2,000 and should be grateful we have a professional football club at all'. This might, in the last analysis be true, but how will such an approach attract more people through the gates? Unless we dream how will we ever grow and challenge the apathy amongst so many in the Bay? Personally, I hate it when I hear people talk of 'little Torquay' which I get a lot of given where I live. I find it patronising at best and at at worst in my opinion, it fails to recognise the highly professional football club that we are.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Dutch we know each other and allways have an all things TUFC chat when our paths cross, we are both very positive about our club, however there must be as Chris B says balance and some real time honesty aswell, we all see how much progress has been made and what our club has achieved on and off the field these last few years has been nothing far short of a mircale.

Despite being very positive about the club I have found this season very frustrating and I can fully understand why so many others are finding this season as frustrating as me, yes we are in 8th place with more points than this time last year, can someone tell me how because I have not got a clue, we keep talking about being poor away from home, despite being unbeaten at times we have not been that much better at home, we shouldn't be in 8th and wont be for much longer unless things improve on the pitch.

The reason why I adopt this attitude is simple, our current team is better than last years, half of them are not performing, they are capable of so much more thats the problem, and I think the biggest problem at our club is mentality, we have to get away from this tired we are such a small club with no money argument, Cheltenham get just a few 100 more through the gate than us probaly no bigger size club they don't seem to be doing a bad job of building a side that looks every bit capable of a top 3 finish

Honesty from Martin Ling on match performances is fine and something we all like, but when he goes public with we have not enough talent in the squad and cup run was needed to sign a new player, jeez Lingy thats taking honesty just a bit to far and what sort of mentality does that create around the team.

I dont buy into the we lost the spine of the team argument either, Bobby.o was every bit a championship keeper yes, but Pokey is a top keeper at this level and knows our club so well shouldn't have needed time to settle, lost Ellis,yes throw a high ball at him and he would head it for miles other than that he was so highly over-rated it was untrue, Aaron Downes is a country mile better, ok lost Eunan O'Kane he is now bench warming for a struggling league 1 side..was he really that good ? is Nathan Criag not as good ? And finaly released two forward players Mcphee and Atieno and replaced them with just one Ryan Jarvis , so we are short of money we can't really be suggesting Ryan Jarvis has been given a contract equal two to both McPhee and Atieno, and the H/E is suggesting we are about to bring in another defender on loan, come on we don't have a problem at the back..doesn't anyone see a problem here.

As said I am very thankful that our board have not just steered us back to the league but as an established top end league 2 club, we can all see the new stand, new training ground, gulls nest, no10's but this will all be for nothing unless we start to see performances improve, it is not allways about winning, yes that is nice, but fans want to see there team at home more than away control the game press our style on the other team atleast dominate large periods of play, not watch our midfield and defence on the edge of the box hanging on for dear life as we have seen a few times at home and in most away games our low gates will just get lower and lower as fans will not pay to be bored out of there minds.

Yep we are a small club with limited funds and there is plenty to be cheerful about, performances have to improve though.

Perfectly summed up better than i could and exactly what i wanted to say myself but without the moans and swear words!

Agree with Plymgull too, we don't want the earth, just a buzz from going to football again.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Sorry, meant Plymouthgull not Plymgull.

[Plymouth Gull]

Yes it can be dull at times, but would we rather get smashed 6-2 because we can't defend to save our lives, or lose 1-0/draw 0-0, because we can't attack?

This system was a proven success last year, we lost key personnel and the replacements haven't quite met the standard just yet. Looking at the bigger picture, we're in a better position than we ever have been in my time supporting them, we've had 3/4 years of solid improvement, so I can't say I'm too surprised to hit a lull. Unfortunately I still get the impression the board don't really want a promotion though.