Attitudes to the new reality.........

[AustrianAndyGull]

You won't get dicked 4 or 5 nil, you will most likely lose 1-0 and never look like scoring. Quote from Cambridge fan.

page 12 on the Martin Ling thread when he was appointed.

Sorry but no good at computery stuff!

[SuperNickyWroe]

It's not just the side is boring, the cost of it all is the major thing especially when trying tob uy a house!, but I'd make more of an effort to go if I thought we were worth watching. Barnet and Bristol Rovers were two games I would normally go to despite them both being a pain in the arse to get to. in years gone by I'd make sacrifices (both financial and also people ) to make sure I was there, this year I couldn't be arsed.

250odd at oxford Saturday, think that's the lowest amount of Gulls at Oxford I can ever remember. Worse for those that live in Torquay or like yourself the other end of the country where it's a massive commute to lots of games. I'm situated relatively near to a lot of away grounds in this league. I'll do some more this season for definite but I don't feel as though I really have to be there which I've felt in previous years.

agree royal.
i was stood with andy at chesterfield and to be honest we were bored as hell! i even had two cups of coffee to keep me awake! :Oops: =D
we had a chance 5yrds out in the 1st half and that was missed, went to sleep for their goal and was lucky that their donkey - sorry defender, slipped for our goal - otherwise we'd have lost 1-0. :no:
i was keen this season to get to as many games "ooop north" as possible, but having watched that at chesterfield - well..........
was going to go to york (which I was looking forward to) but wont bother. may go to bradford depending on fellow posters reports of the away performances. As andy said it costs a bit to watch for us for the away games, so god knows how much it costs for the devon gang! :-o
of course will support through thick and thin and as ive said many times if someone offered me 20yrs league 2 football - id take it.

[Gullscorer]

It's a pity the final league positions don't depend upon home results alone. If our away performances were as good, we'd be laughing. But the season is not yet half-way through...

[Neal]

Football fans and hindsight. Who on here complained about Atieno leaving and Jarvis replacing him. mmmm..... from the posts it seems that Jarvis is now not a league 2 player. Hindsight hindsight, Martin Ling doesnt have that convenience, he has to make decisions each day as he sees it. i could say on here and state I think Jarvis is great or his rubbish, make enought statements and one of them will be right. Martin obvioulsy thought Jarvis would do a better job acting the Rene role than he has (on the few occasions i might add that his had the chance) but maybe he doesnt want to mess about with the formation too much. If he changed a number of things becuase Rene is missing and we got slaughtered 5-0, gee watch the hatchets come out then.

I have been to 3 away games, Port Vale (1-1), Wycombe (2-1) and AFC (0-1) Thats a 3-3 aggregate and not bad in my opinion. And we havnt been beaten by more than 1 goal in any away game, pretty good also in my opinion. Cheer up folks and dont start whinging, we are 8th, dont get on the teams back and make it harder for them!

[bengull]

I am delighted with the direction the club is heading in, both on the pitch but most importantly off of it too. I believe we absolutely have the right man for the job.

Martin Ling spent 5 years at Leyton Orient, you do not survive that long under a man like Barry Hearn unless you have something about you. He is clearly an excellent communicator and acts within the best interests of the club that employs him. He took Orient up to League One, not straight away, but when all the pieces of the jigsaw he was building fit. By taking his time, not only did he assemble a squad with the quality to go up, but crucially with the required ability to stay up. I get the feeling this what he is building at Torquay, taking his time to get everything in place, he is looking at the long-term picture. He is building a legacy at this club for years to come, he may not be the one to utilise it fully, but i sincerely hope he is.

Since he took over Ling has had to over-see the builing of a new Grandstand (and subsequent hand-rails) putting in place a new youth system (already bearing fruit through the emergence of McKenzie, Niall and Connor Thompson etc) a brand new multi-purpose training facility, and countless other miscellanies such as new clocks, scoreboards and coats of paint all over the club, all of which is designed to make TUFC a more professional outfit. We are never going to survive in League one with an average gate of 2,500, we struggle to compare and compete in League two as it is, but if Plainmoor becomes a more enjoyable place to watch football (and it is) and the youth scheme unearths young talent in the ilk that has benefitted Crewe, and a multi-purpose training facility harnesses them into exciting first team players, then we have a chance at attracting bigger crowds.

Gullscorer was correct in his assertion that we need to attract more people into the ground, but for the majority of Leroy's glorious promotion season our average crowd remained the same, in League One the average gate started off higher, but as the rot set in of a club struggling to compete in a higher division, the woodworkers soon disappeared leaving only the hard-core element once more. I don't think promotion would necessarily benefit us in this regard, especially when you consider how constantly apathetic the local council are to our football club, but I do think steady progress over a number of years and properly advertising and marketing would see our attendance rise.

So, how do we pay for all this off the field improvement? Do we follow the example set by our spendthrift neighbours, spending what we do not have to chase unrealistic ambitions before falling flat on our faces when we realise it's not sustainable? No. We're Torquay United and we're honest, we're doing it properly. We will have to provide it all within our means and that means cutting the playing budget for a season. I am sure Lingy would love to bring down a championship benchwarmer on loan to supplement what we already have, can we afford the travelling and housing costs of this? No. Are we in such dire straits that this move is absolutely necessary? No. If we were bottom of the league I would be supporting this action, but we are eighth, a point off the play-offs, better off than we were last year, and above both of our aforementioned neighbours who not only claim to be bigger clubs on a regular basis, but play infront of much bigger crowds. We have not had a bad start to the season.

We have struggled to gel so far this season. It is no surprise given the enforced lack of consistency in team selection. At various times we have seen disruptions to Poke, Oastler, Downes, Lathrope, Craig, Morris long-term, Stevens, Howe and a resurgent Macklin. Given the perameters of our squad i would suggest it is a minor miracle that we are in a better position this season than we were at the same stage last. We have yet to hit our stride, I would suggest only against Rochdale have we fired on all cylinders at the same time, and we looked like genuine promotion candidates that day. Indeed when we can boast our full-strength line up we have proven we can compete right at the top of the league by beating then runaway leaders Gillngham, we are a match for anyone in the division on our day, it is all about finding that consistency.

Few players can really say they are completely satisfied with their output, you would only say that Howe, Downes, Saah and Craig in large periods have performed to a promotion worthy standard. Once others refind their form and /or confidence this bunch has proved last season how quickly and easy it is to rise up the league by putting together a run of victories. Only this time we are not languishing in the lower eight, we are on the edge of the play-offs and that is having seen off plenty of challenging away fixtures already. We have not been turned over by any team this season, whereas last season Crawley, Southend, and Gillingham had all beaten us comfortably by mid October. Many fans feared we would be relegation fodder and begged Ling to bring in re-inforcements. With trust in what he had already assembled in the building Ling continued to believe in consistency of selection and his confidence in his players was rewarded with an up-turn of performances.

Our home form is excellent, we have not lost in the league so far this season, the best record in the division. Yet fans are still unhappy. I think we have been treated to excellent value for money so far at Plainmoor so far this season, with only the Burton and Argyle games being slightly disappointing, yet fans still moan incessantly. Whether sub-consciously they resent the club for having to pay out £17-20 to attend I'm not sure but the amount of flak directed at our own players is nothing sort of embarrassing and disgraceful. Those calling for the axing of Nico and Mansell are foolish to the extreme. No-one at the club will be working harder to play themselves out of their respective sticky spells, these are two fantastic professionals who lead by example both on and off the football pitch, their experience is vital at this level and their dedication to TUFC should be applauded not compromised. They are struggling to repeat the successes of last season's everest achievements, but rest assured once they find their consistency again they remain key players for us.

Equally moronic is the continued barracking of Billy Bodin. People forget he is playing every game in a season for the first time in his career, he is still coming to terms with the physical and mental demands of a long league two campaign. Added to this he is the only player in our squad to cost money (and a substantial sum for a club like TUFC) so there is additional pressure to perform. He is getting into the right positions to score, but ultimately failing, when he starts hiding away and cutting out the flicks and tricks is when we should be worried, they have made him the player we were all genuinely excited to have signed permanently in the summer. He is only one goal away from going on a prolific run, he proved last season and the beginning of this that he can be a matchwinner, the manager and players all believe in him, and we should too. Rest assured when he comes good the fickle nature of our fans will say that it was never in any doubt.

I can not understand this relentless criticism of our players, especially considering our position of eighth in the league. We should be protecting our players from the bile of others, not throwing it at them ourselves. If you can't stand losing football matches I am afraid you are supporting the wrong club. The appeal of being a TUFC fan is the underdog coming out on top, competing against all these so-called bigger clubs and still competing at the right end of the table. Along with our noisy neighbours, we must travel the furthest distances in this division, and utilise the most overnight stays too. This is a hard set of circumstances for any footballer with a young family, yet they still choose to play for our football club over a more comfortable footballing lifestyle elsewhere. This should create an us (TUFC) against them (rest of the league) scenario where will should really be looking to stick together. I have been to too many away defeats and I know that as professionals, they will be spending the long journey home wondering how to put the wrongs right.

Our away form is a concern, but we are still proving hard to beat. Win your home games and don't lose your away games is a blue-print which is the hallmark of promotion and by and large we are keeping to that in so far as we are not getting turned over. Saturday's point at the Kassam was an excellent one in my eyes, we were still in the game after 70 minutes and then tried to win it in the last 20. We didn't quite create the chance to nick it although Yeoman and Thompson's arrival did inject slight impetus. Against Barnet we attacked from the off, played some of the crispest passing football away from home so far but got hit by a sucker punch goal on the counter-attack. I for one would have been pissed off travelling back along the M4 for the second match in 4 days having just wasted £140 on two defeats. A 0-0 draw saw excellent defensive resillience and discipline and the learning of lessons from Tuesday's defeat. Had we had Rene at our disposal we may have been better placed to create a decisive chance. Most supporters were predicting a 0-3 shellacking, I don't see why 0-0 then, was such a bad result and a reason to moan so much? Oh and Martin Rice played excellently too, silencing a few of his doubters in the process too, I hope.

Ling's biggest challenge is managing expectation, expectation he created not only by guiding a hastily assembled squad to the play-offs last season, but by making his pre-season aim of promotion come true. With our squad stretched at the moment we have to accept that some matches are going to be hard-going. Rene being back will give us a massive boost against Southend, and with the Harrogate/Barnet rot stopped with a battling point at Oxford, the slate is wiped clean and perhaps we can start to put together a bit of a run. I have no doubt that players CAN be brought in if needed, but the simple fact is that they are not. We have proved that when at full strength the players in house are good enough to compete with anyone in this league. Where we can not compete however is our off the field infrastructure and that is what is currently taking precedent, and the rewards of doing so will be evident in the years to come.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Again another well thought through, balanced and compelling read Ben and although we agree to disgree on some points you can't really argue with it mate. I have said for me it's all about Lingy assessing the opposition, assessing the players he has available to him and making a decision on how to approach the game and it is his decisions to approach MOST games with a negative mindset which abhorr me. Does it show that he doesn't even DO his homework on the opposition given he plays the same way on a consistent basis? We can accept facts and say our home record is excellent or the cynics inside some of us can say there were mitigating factors to our 1-0 win over Morecambe, they had no strikers, against Gilligham gone off the boil a bit since that defeat, we let Burton in at the death after playing the same way again, we were poor against Plymouth , we couldn't break down a non league side in the cup , we were battered by Leicester who subsequently lost to league 2 opposition in the next round, we gave Yeovil a win in the JPT, we let bottom of the table Aldershot have a three goal lead. Away we lost to then bottom Barnet, we failed to score at Fleetwood, Rotherham and Oxford also and scored from our only two opportunities to bag 1-1 draws at Chesterfield and Vale, all the time playing the same way. As some posters on here have said, i haven't got the slightest clue WHY we are where we are but there you go. One thing am confident on is that if this continues we will foind ourselves slipping down the table quite rapidly pretty soon. Again though Ben, great read and don't forget the sweets for York!

[bengull]

...and last season we got turned over by Crawley, Gillingham twice and Southend, couldn't beat ten men at Bradford, hardly created a chance at Shrewsbury or Northampton, drew 0-0 in the most boring game ever at Port Vale, lost to relegated Hereford, wouldn't have scored in 1000 minutes at Wimbledon, let Bradford deny us 8 straight wins at Plainmoor, barely put up a fight at Swindon etc and still finished 5th. That is the nature of a football season and the reason it lasts 46 games and not 20.

There are going to be peaks and troughs, we have played most of our games this season without the luxury of putting out our strongest team. You were stood next to me at Port Vale when we put out the most inexperienced line-up of all time and we came away with a very creditable point. I have sympathy with you only being able to see the away games, most of them have been drab affairs, I can not disagree with you. However as I previously stated my mindset of away games is to still be in the game after 70 minutes and try and win it thereafter, It is not much fun to watch but it has proved mightily effective for the top teams over the years.

Do we continue this approach, or do we back ourselves to exert our authority on supposedly weaker opposition and end up losing 5-0 to a team like Dagenham? I know which approach I prefer. Had we been able to choose from all of our 22 man squad for every game this season we would not being having this conversation, I am sure of it. But whilst it isn't the case we have to appreciate the limitations in which our club is operating and see the positives of our situation. People might suggest I am a relentless optimist, and perhaps I am, but I think it goes a long way when you support a club like ours.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Alright, alright!! God! Do you slow down for car crashes?! Just 'coz i've got a sh*t table! Look, if you gonna be angry then could you do it down the centre of the table please?

[AustrianAndyGull]

I'm missing Morris.

[royalgull]

Football fans and hindsight. Who on here complained about Atieno leaving and Jarvis replacing him. mmmm..... from the posts it seems that Jarvis is now not a league 2 player. Hindsight hindsight, Martin Ling doesnt have that convenience, he has to make decisions each day as he sees it. i could say on here and state I think Jarvis is great or his rubbish, make enought statements and one of them will be right. Martin obvioulsy thought Jarvis would do a better job acting the Rene role than he has (on the few occasions i might add that his had the chance) but maybe he doesnt want to mess about with the formation too much. If he changed a number of things becuase Rene is missing and we got slaughtered 5-0, gee watch the hatchets come out then.

I have been to 3 away games, Port Vale (1-1), Wycombe (2-1) and AFC (0-1) Thats a 3-3 aggregate and not bad in my opinion. And we havnt been beaten by more than 1 goal in any away game, pretty good also in my opinion. Cheer up folks and dont start whinging, we are 8th, dont get on the teams back and make it harder for them!

i wasn't overly happy with Atieno being replaced by Jarvis. I was happy enough with Atieno going as I didn't think he was good enough to be a regular, but having seen Jarvis on loan I was hoping we'd sign someone else as well. Jarvis is worse than Atieno at the role Ling wants him for imo and was when he was on loan.

[royalgull]

Alright, alright!! God! Do you slow down for car crashes?! Just 'coz i've got a sh*t table! Look, if you gonna be angry then could you do it down the centre of the table please?

you've got to laugh when you fall off a sofa

[AustrianAndyGull]

[gullintwoplaces]

Excellent post above from Bengull, well argued, and based on EVIDENCE. The Brucies and Coleys on this forum would do well to read such a well balanced, sensible comment, and perhaps then the vicious invective might stop. I doubt that some of the uneducated morons that I have heard shouting their bile at Lingy and the team from the PopSide and Bristows Bench can even read, so they won't be able to benefit from reading Bengull's well written comment.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Excellent post above from Bengull, well argued, and based on EVIDENCE. The Brucies and Coleys on this forum would do well to read such a well balanced, sensible comment, and perhaps then the vicious invective might stop. I doubt that some of the uneducated morons that I have heard shouting their bile at Lingy and the team from the PopSide and Bristows Bench can even read, so they won't be able to benefit from reading Bengull's well written comment.

Well I'VE read it so............ :na:

8/

[Richinns]

Well I'VE read it so............ :na:

8/