Back and ready to moan

[Fonda]

Some well-intentioned words for the Lingmeister general...

‘We have to be honest, we’re Torquay’ is not the inspirational soundbite the Pop side is looking for. Going on to suggest we don’t have the money to sign 4 or 5 players, when the reason for that is that you wasted budget on average players in the summer also won't wash. Our budget would only stretch to one forward signing in the summer? So why recruit one that isn’t good enough to challenge for a starting berth, and rarely threatens the net when he does? Address the Billy Bodin conundrum. He’s our most talented player, but looks bereft of all confidence (and ability) currently. When you spend the budget that could have funded 3 players on 1, you have to get him playing. Address the Lee Mansell conundrum. He’s a shadow of the player that performed so well last season. He was running games last season, they’re passing him by now. The form of those two players is symptomatic of the struggles facing the whole team currently. They look directionless for the most part. I’m not convinced they’re all ‘on board’ with the 1 up-front, dreary tactics being employed. I know I’m not. Play Nathan Craig in the middle of the pitch. He’s the one midfielder that can pass the ball – he’s wasted on the wing and we create nothing through the middle without him. Sign a striker, and attempt to score more goals than the opposition. It’s more entertaining, and sometimes results in victories. If you’ve lost confidence in Poke, sign a keeper. Because Martin Rice has never been a league quality goalkeeper. I think that’s enough to be getting on with. I’ll get back in my box.

[Fonda]

No real reason mate. Just don't have the time to waste arguing with people on here anymore!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Agree with every word. Is there a reason you have stopped posting Fonda?

Yeah, he's been in a coma since August through watching Torquay!

Agree with Fonda, it is obvious to most bar Martin.

I think the most important aspect to all of this comes down to human psychology. Ok so i'm not Sigmund Freud, who incidentally was a famous Austrian but we've done that thread already! I'm not him but it is clear to me that Martin is so obsessed with NOT LOSING football matches that he sets his side out to do just that most games and it has now become a habit. Anyone who has had addiction problems will testify that breaking habits is extremely difficult. Last season we had some better players and were able to generate more chances to score, we did still play negatively in a lot of games. If we get anything at the other end it's a bonus to him. His mantra is not to go out there and win but to come away with something and this inevitably produces the type of football that we are becoming accustomed to. If we don't have any funds to bring in any new faces then it is up to him to look at what he HAS got and try and change things around a bit to see if anything positive comes of it. There is little point moaning about it and making the excuse that we're little old torquay.

That really got on my nerves and comments like this only serve to antagonise fans who are already concerned at the disturbing level of performances out on the pitch. We need confidence, a leader. I'm sure if he came out and said that he doesn't have all the answers but him and the team are working hard to address the problems because things just aren't working at the moment and that if it's necessary to try something different then we'll give it a go and see if we have any joy then the fans would respect this and get behind him. To be honest, i don't want to hear that just because i support a small club with no money then where we are now in the table is better than expected. The man doesn't have any confidence and he cannot pass this desire and support onto his players because he doesn't have it in him. Take Bodin, the lad is shot to bits and for whatever reason, half down to Ling IMO he is seriously struggling and we would be better if he didn't play for a bit just to get his head right and get some confidence back in the boy. Ling won't drop him because he is one of Lings 'great' signings who cost us a fair bit of money and that would be seen as a failure. I reckon Billy would get more encouragement and support if Roy Keane was the manager!

If we played a different formation and on the front foot then Billy i'm sure would be more involved and the confidence would come back. Sporadic attacking doesn't give him enough of the ball and when he gets it he must feel so under pressure to do something with it before it inevitably gets lost to the opposition. Lingy hasn't got the boll*cks to make a brave decision like dropping Bodin for Bodin's benefit. The ridiculous thing is that the Bodin of old could be the Bodin of old again but it is due to the way Ling uses him and the team that he is having a shocker. Ling can't see it so he'll just continue playing him and he'll just continue struggling. The annoying thing is it isn't rocket science, many of the teams problems are all pretty obvious , common sense ones and with a bit of bravery could be rectified almost instantly.

What does Martin have to lose? Many of us want a change in formation and a change in tactics and tempo so if he accepts this and it doesn't work then he can say i told you so and we can all accept that maybe our players are sh*t after all and a defensive approach may be the only way of accumulating points with what we have. He just won't f*cking try anything and it's so infuriating. On the other hand, if it works and we maul someone 4-0 playing like Barcelona then that may just be the turning point in our season again. As it stands now, Lings refusal to change is not allowing us to see if we CAN be any better therefore the worse the results and performances become the more Ling will get stick and he will have brought it on himself.

If we don't embrace change we stand still ( or even worse )

[SuperNickyWroe]

Some well-intentioned words for the Lingmeister general...

‘We have to be honest, we’re Torquay’ is not the inspirational soundbite the Pop side is looking for. Going on to suggest we don’t have the money to sign 4 or 5 players, when the reason for that is that you wasted budget on average players in the summer also want wash. Our budget would only stretch to one forward signing in the summer? So why recruit one that isn’t good enough to challenge for a starting berth, and rarely threatens the net when he does? Address the Billy Bodin conundrum. He’s our most talented player, but looks bereft of all confidence (and ability) currently. When you spend the budget that could have funded 3 players on 1, you have to get him playing. Address the Lee Mansell conundrum. He’s a shadow of the player that performed so well last season. He was running games last season, they’re passing him by now. The form of those two players is symptomatic of the struggles facing the whole team currently. They look directionless for the most part. I’m not convinced they’re all ‘on board’ with the 1 up-front, dreary tactics being employed. I know I’m not. Play Nathan Craig in the middle of the pitch. He’s the one midfielder that can pass the ball – he’s wasted on the wing and we create nothing through the middle without him. Sign a striker, and attempt to score more goals than the opposition. It’s more entertaining, and sometimes results in victories. If you’ve lost confidence in Poke, sign a keeper. Because Martin Rice has never been a league quality goalkeeper. I think that’s enough to be getting on with. I’ll get back in my box.

good points well made.
where have you been?
anyway, never mind that get back in your box!

[Yellowledbetter]

Agree 100%

[ROADRUNNER]

the play has been so negative, we look like a team playing away from home all the time, he has to ditch this formation once and for all and go for an attacking formation with pace, get tommo on the wing with rene and billy as the two strikers, get leadbitter in for joe he has more pace, and craig into midfield, he has to change it before its to late, if he dont change it soon he will be sacked, NO QUESTION! :slap:

[MidDevon]

Fonda makes some good points. Above all that on Nathan Craig

From my point of view Nathan is one of the best players to join Torquay in recent years.

He has made the step up from League of Wales to league 2 almost seemlessly. It took both Elliot Benyon and Euanne O'Kane much longer to establish themselves, so this is a great sign of things to come.

He can make things happen and if given a central midfield role will make things happen. I actually rate him so highly that I think we should build the team around him. My goodness would he create chances if we had more than Rene Howe up front.

My guess is Martin Ling himself has been surprised at how quickly Nathan Craig has adjusted and was perhaps waiting for the opportunity to play him in this role....and with Mansell being a muppet on Saturday surely these 3 games are the ideal opportunity to let Nathan run the game.....if he is given it you have to question if Mansell will get the chance to come back into the team in the position he has been trying to play in?

I

[ferrarilover]

Oh dear oh dear.

Shane, welcome back. Average players? Billy Bodin was being chased by Crewe (promoted to L1 and with the best young squad this side of Manchester United). During the time he was here with us last year, he was dynamite. Unfortunately, Martin's crystal ball is broken and he was unable, therefore, to see just how hopeless Billy would turn out to be.
Poke was, by far and away the best goalkeeper we've had (aside from Bobby, of course). Ok, it was a bit of a punt to sign him after his being inactive for so long, but then, as Martin says, we're Torquay United, those are the sort of scraps from which we must feed. Sometimes we end up with a gem (O'Kane), sometimes we end up with a bit of a lemon (Atieno, Poke perhaps).
Aaron Downes is better than Mark Ellis, and you won't find a bigger Mark Ellis fan than me (perhaps Diamondgirl).
Martin Rice made his League debut just a fortnight ago and kept a clean sheet, despite the ten in front of him doing absolutely nothing to help him. He played his second game in a similar match and was beaten once from 5 yards after kamikaze defending, once from 16 yards after a 1-in-a-million deflection, once from a quarter of an inch after his left back allowed a cross to come in unchallenged on to the head of a Championship striker in good form and once from half a yard having been criminally exposed when his defenders decided to leave the fastest player in England entirely unaccompanied straight through the middle.
In point of fact, we could probably have had Peter Schmeichel in goal for the last two matches and still conceded at least the same number of goals.

RoadRunner. We haven't a pot to piss in, how do you plan to finance the sacking of Lingy and the appointment of a new man?

Matt.

[MidDevon]

Have to agree with you on 2 points Ferrarilover

With Poke in goal on saturday we would still have ended up with zero points, and almost certainly at least 4 goals conceded, but Martin certainly earned us a point at Oxford United. That to me is a perfectly acceptable reserve keeper

Aaron Downes is simply too good for league 2 and Lingy made an astute signing there, risking the fact he has spent many weeks injured at previous clubs....so far he's been fantastic for Torquay...and does not get in the pickles that Ellis does!

Regarding the budget, well the club never allow supporters to know the finincial situation, believe me I've asked, and I guess only the senior directors know that, but what we do know is that the playing budget is around 16th in division 4 (higher budgets than the likes of Dagenham but far lower than the likes of Gillingham), so that is where we should probably finish...., compared to my early days watching Torquay thats a result!....and I never forget that

[Fonda]

Billy is not useless, and at no point did I suggest he was. I believe I referred to him as ‘our most talented player’. The fact remains if you spend the budget of 3 men on 1, you have to play in a manner that gets the best out of him. At the moment, he cuts a frustrated figure, devoid of confidence. He’s being wasted, and his signing limited our other options in the summer. Downes is more than adequate at this level. Poke was superb when last here, and I was happy enough when he returned. I hope to see him restored to the team next week, but if he’s not, and Ling has lost some confidence in him we need a replacement because Rice never has been and never will be the answer.

Where was money wasted? Considering what he cost and as explained above, Bodin has taken the place of 3 men in our squad. Are we getting our money’s worth for that outlay? Jarvis is no more a goalscorer than I am. If we really had to enter this season with two strikers, he shouldn’t have been one of them. Craig Easton does what Lathrope does, only not nearly as well.

Ling has done some decent business, and some average business. Much as all managers do in fact. It’s not so much the quality of his signings that is the issue, rather the way he uses them. We look a pretty dysfunctional unit at the current time. With a squad as small as ours, with no way of strengthening it, he needs to find the answers from within. It’d be a start to play in a manner that benefits our best players.

[MidDevon]

Jarvis has only made 4 starts by my reckoning, plus a dozen 15 minute run outs as subs and has scored 4 goals

I would estimate that is 1 goal for every 2 full matches

You can prove anything by statistics I know, but that is not too bad a return for someone who is not really given a chance of regular 90 minutes

[Fonda]

As you rightly say, you can't prove anything with statistics. I'd be interested to know how may of those goals were mere consolations? Personally, i'm not a massive fan of stats - they can 'prove' some pretty questionable things. I prefer to judge footballers on the evidence in front of my eyes. And my eyes tell me he's non-league.

[MidDevon]

I actually said you CAN prove anything by statistics !

I think we should bear in mind that Javis only really gets a look in when things are bad and we need to bolster our attack....I do not think he is always the prettiest player to watch but he does get one hell of a lot of the ball when he comes on

[Fonda]

I just don't rate him. When i compare him to some of the others we've had here in recent times - Benyon, Zeroski, Kee, Tomlin, Rendell he looks amateur.

[ferrarilover]

FGS to the rescue! Over the course of this season, (remember, lower scores are better, I've included cup games and the first set of results are taking one appearance, no matter how brief, to be one appearance)

Rene scores: 2.00, two dead is pretty good.
Ryan scores: 4.00, so he is precisely half as deadly as Rene.

However, if we take minutes on the pitch and aggregate them to form the number of complete games played, then we see a different story.

Rene scores: 1.88
Ryan scores: 1.37

This makes Ryan 1.37 times as deadly as Rene over the course of 90 minutes. Given also the fact that, due to the sheer number of chances which one is afforded when playing 90 minutes as opposed to mere bit parts, Ryan's record is vastly superior to that of Rene. It should be noted also that Ryan's longest single spell yielded him his greatest return of goals AND that was against L1 opposition in Yeovil AND that Rene takes the penalties.
Let us assume that each player is presented with a chance every 15 minutes. The chances are all equally as easy as one another and the anomaly of either player not getting 15 consecutive minutes is ignored.
Rene, in his 1698 minutes on the pitch has been afforded 113 whole chances. For his 10 goals, that's a chance conversion rate of 8.83%. Ryan, in his 495 minutes on the pitch has been afforded 33 chances, giving him a 12.12% chance conversion rate. This is without considering the factors such as playing in time, the fact that Ryan, by and large, comes on with seconds to go and gets zero bloody chances.

I will grant you that, for all the extra that Rene brings to the team, he is a much better player, but I want my forwards to score goals, and Jarvis, as we have seen here, is at least as adept at that as Rene.

Give Ryan a chance, and stop playing boring, negative 4-6-0 shit and see what happens.

Rice very much could be the answer, in a number of key areas he is superior to Pokey. I'll stick my neck out and suggest that with Rice in net instead of Poke, we wouldn't have conceded either the Rotherham or the Port Vale away goals and we'd have 3 points more now that we have.

Matt.