Ling and his comments - another clanger?

[Gullscorer]

We should get off Martin Ling's back. We're not yet half-way through the season and we're just three points away from a play-off position, perfectly poised to begin a run in the New Year towards a promotion challenge. We have an excellent squad which he will re-inforce as and when required. He's a better manager than any of us will ever be and we're fortunate to have him at Plainmoor!

[gulltastic]

Agreed. Very good manager and has us in a good position with a game in hand.
In ling we trust

[AustrianAndyGull]

[quote="Gullscorer"]We should get off Martin Ling's back. We're not yet half-way through the season and we're just three points away from a play-off position, perfectly poised to begin a run in the New Year towards a promotion challenge. We have an excellent squad which he will re-inforce as and when required. He's a better manager than any of us will ever be and we're fortunate to have him at Plainmoor![/quote]


First of all GS you are right in saying we should get off Lingy's back. I was well and truly on it and voiciferous in my criticism of Ling but at York he addressed the reason why i was so angry with him. His stubborness and refusal to change a limited system which clearly wasn't working. He did this at York and although we were far from spectacular, he did what i wanted him to do and rectified the problem i had been moaning about for weeks and weeks. I can't ask for more than that and so long as he continues to adapt the formation to suit and not play the same way then he has my full support winning or not. There was a valid reason why i was so against him, i wasn't doing it to be a knob. The team had to be changed and the formation had to be changed and at last he has done this so i praise him for this and i just hope he wishes to be more adventurous and not revert back to 1 up top all the time otherwise i would be well within my rights to come on here and start complaining again. I'm not fickle, i've just spotted an issue which Martin has temporarily resolved and so he has my support. Like i said, we could have lost 3-0 at York but at least we set the team up to have a go so positives all round.

[ferrarilover]

Hmmm, while I remain unconvinced that 90% of the criticism ML has received from some quarters (Andy, you prick ) is warranted, I will suggest that Scorer's suggestion that we should leave him (ML, not Andy) alone because of the number of points that we have is equally as unfair on the supporters in general.

We need to separate, in our minds, the outcome with the manner in which it is achieved. Sure, we have a bunch of points this season and for that we should be grateful it could be much worse, we could be Rovers or Aldershot, but the manner in which we have accrued those points, for me, is the issue. For reasons unknown, the standard of football in L2 this year has been so incredibly low that, despite being as utterly terrible as we have been this season, we have scored a decent number of points. I am absolutely devastated that we seem to be playing so badly this year, since if we were playing like we were last year, we'd be top by a dozen points by now, having swept aside just about everybody.

Of all the things which depress me about the Cheaty Town situation, it is the attitude of their God-awful plastic fans which grates the most. All they are concerned with is the result, they aren't bothered what it's like to watch, so long as they win and progress up the divisions. They seem to fail to realise that the point of going up the divisions is to watch better football.

So, all the whole we have more points than last year, or at least, not significantly fewer, we should, of course, be pleased that we aren't anywhere near going down. However, I would add the proviso that I'd much rather we were picking up points on our own merits, like we did last year, rather than simply because the division has gone to pieces this time round.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I have just read a piece on the BBC Sport Football / League 2 page about Ling and Danny Stevens and i find some comments Ling has made on there discouraging. Obviously i said a few posts above that i was pleased with the change in formation and how i will support Ling should he continue in that vein; however, i have just read two excerpts from the interview that have caused me concern.

Firstly he says ( about Torquay United ) "We've got to be careful we don't get above ourselves, we know where we are in this league, we are a hard working team"

That statement for me is a massive worry. I totally agree with it but it kind of inadvertantly admits that the acceptance of mediocrity and lack of ambition is ok for Ling and the Gulls faithful would be wrong in wanting more out of him and the players than mid-table. Please tell me what you guys think of that.

Secondly he goes on to say, "I didn't think the home form was the problem, it was coming out on the road, sticking in and getting some dogged performances like we did last year and this (York) was one of them that's for sure".

The home form isn't a problem, the manner of the performnces by and large is a problem though. In addition, we have had dogged performances on the road this season, far too many of them in fact and it was only the fact that we had more players in and around the danger area on the rare occasions we attacked York that we managed to score otherwise it would have been another backs to the wall 0-0 dogged performance. I had hoped Martin had got away from thinking that a dogged performance away from home and a 0-0 at best was a success but on reading that i'm not too sure. Maybe he WILL go 1 up top against Daggers because he feels safer playing at Plainmoor?

On reading these comments i am disappointed that he couldn't have come out with something more dynamic, more positive after a solid away win and i've got to admit to being worried that Martin hasn't actually learned anything at all. The next few games will tell us i suppose.

NOTE: Please don't reply saying i'm anti-Ling and stuff like that because it will get no response. I am simply pointing out some comments he made, trying to interpret them and asking for your opinion. I'm not saying Ling is this and Ling is that so please just read what i have actually written and any replies would be greatly appreciated.

[LukeGull]

Without a doubt we have had many dogged performances this season, just without the success of last season. I for one would also like to consider ourTeam to be a little bit more than 'hard working'. Anyway, I don't really mind whether Ling comments saying we are just Torquay anymore, as long as we line up against with the same formation as York and with even more attacking intent. Then we can show that we have a little more to our game than just hard work

[bengull]

Personally I think you can read whatever you want into any comment by any manager. They are simply shooting from the hip trying to react to having a microphone shoved in their face, it must be very easy to say something they would instantly regret, or say something that can be misconstrued.

I don't think there is anything sinister in what Lingy has to say, but if you don't like the man you can twists his words to suggest any number of alternative meanings. I find his honesty refreshing (and by reading Lee Mansell's programme notes, so do the players) and the complete antithesis to Buckle who would try and guild a turd whenever possible. Lingy was being lauded for his honesty for much of last season so I don't know what has changed this season apart from the fact that the seas we are sailing on might not be so calm.

If I was to read anything into his comments (and generally I don't) I would suggest he is simply trying to lower expectations from the majority of fans. This is partly his own doing in appearing so gung-ho at the start of the season with predictions of top 3, but in his defence even he could not foresee such a start to the season disrupted by injuries and suspensions. However we are still in a healthy position at a relatively embryonic stage of the season, we are yet to hit our peak and I am sure he knows by now how to get the best reaction out of his players.

I think now is the time to stop looking for reasons to villify the man. I understand he gets some pretty fearful abuse from Bristow's bench and that is unforgivable, if his interviews are getting a bit more tentative, cryptic, negative or unrelateable, it is little wonder when he is probably paranoid of the next bit of bile from an impatient fan. Whilst we are not in danger of being relegated i see little reason why he should be so 'on edge' about upsetting fans, yet seemingly everything he says ends up upsetting someone.

I will back the manager to the hilt, I think he is doing a tremendous job with the resources in house and as I have stated before with the ongoing improvements off the field happening simultaneously. Sometime we expect too much of our managers, but having seen what he did at Orient we have to trust the man to replicate that, IN HIS OWN WAY.

Everyone hated 442 last season, he pulls 451 out of the hat and nearly gets us promoted, everyone hates 451 this season and tells him to go back to 442. He goes back to 442, wins a match and all the fans tell him they told him so. Sometimes he can't win.

[Gullscorer]

I concur absolutely with bengull's post. Don't read too much into what is said in spur-of-the-moment responses in post-match interviews. Lingy's doing a good job. There will inevitably be suspensions, injuries, runs of inconsistency or poor form. Footballers are not robots. But there's no reason why we should not also anticipate a run of good form during the second half of the season to take us towards a promotion challenge. It has happened in previous seasons. If you don't aim high, you ain't going to get very high. And if we do go up and come straight back down again, as Shrewsbury look like doing (which doesn't make Graham Turner a bad manager all of a sudden), at least we will have had a season in the higher division. I back Martin Ling wholeheartedly, along with his backroom staff and the players. Take a look at Plymouth Argyle's and Bristol Rovers' sorry situations in the league, and count our blessings.

[Neal]

The so called fans in Bristows bench having a go at Long recently have been doing it for years to every manager we've had. I used to stand in front of them and they pissed me off every game to the point it was ruining my enjoyment.

For me L2 is poor all the way through it. But every team and fan of any team will be saying if only we could improve a tad we can win it. Mmmmmmm.... Not that simple I'm afraid or someone would do it.

[Modgull]

Whilst I agree ML has done a great job with minimal resources I do get worried by some of his public remarks.

There are roughly 1,000 fans sitting on the Bench, another 1,000 standing in the pop and a few hundred at each end of the ground in most games. Having been in all three homes areas of the ground but currently residing in the Bench I can honestly say that the comments can be equally negative and critical from all quarters. Sometimes they can even be justified. Only occasionally have they verged on the abusive and we all deplore that. But criticism will always be heard in a crowd of thousands of supporters. Do we really think that if the dugouts were on the pop side ML wouldn't be able to make the same comments about the support from behind him?

And its not just Gulls supporters - I used to sit very close to the away section in the old grandstand and what I often heard directed at the away team's manager would make anyone blush.

No, sadly it is part of being a manager that you have to put up with negative comments from supporters. I think he was spoilt last year by having no one behind him and suddenly this year any criticism seems to be getting under his skin.

Having said that I think Yellow's comments about ML's private life are bang out of order. We all have a right to do what we want in our private lives.

As for formations, I don't think anyone hates any particular formation. For instance Bengull, we didn't hate 442 in the early part of last season. We hated the fact that teams were running right through the middle of our defence and scoring goals. We didn't have the players in that formation to adequately deal with that threat and ML's response, a very successful one, was to bring in Lathrope as the holding midfielder. This meant going to 433 or 451 to accommodate his best players. This was all very well last year with Mansell having his best ever season and access to O'Kane's skills on the ball but in the absence of both these key components this year we have become turgid and predictable.

Without Howe up front we would have been in serious trouble because the midfield has only stuttered through this first part of the season. This is partly due to injuries (Macklin and Stevens), loss of form (Mansell) and loss of a key talent (O'Kane). It is clear we need to give Howe more support and get more bodies in the box at the right times. This can be achieved either by changing formation or by changing personnel. Since he is limited in the latter surely a change of formation was overdue.

Now that he has made the change I hope we see a more positive approach at home or else I fear that we will see attendances reduce with a knock-on impact on his ability to dip into the loan system later in the season.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Some good responses thankyou. I think Ben has a point in saying that if we literally start taking Lingy's comments verbatim all the time and look for things that aren't there, the more anti-Ling we are the more we are likely to 'find' something we can dissect and twist it to suit our agenda. I simply saw a couple of understated comments when for once, after all the flak the man has had he had an opportunity to come out with something a little more positive. Not that because we won at York we are now going to walk the league, just something along the lines of what a professional performance it was and how it can give us a platform to kick on, how happy he is with the system HE chose to adopt ( which worked ) etc etc.

I have to keep reiterating that my post is not in any way a dig at Martin, i have to point that out now EVERY time as some people never actually read the words i have written and will come on and attack me for having a go. Sadly i may have to do this on most occasions.

Anyway, my observations are not a dig at Ling, he may find it less controversial and more productive to play down good performances and not get carried away. He may indeed have got the players in the dressing room after the game and really told them what a great shift they had put in and how proud he and the fans were of them. I just don't know. At the end of the day it is entirely up to him what he says to the media and like Ben says, we just have to go with it. We just have to take it a game at a time and hope that Martin has got things under control behind the scenes and he knows what he is doing. Admittedly that has been difficult to do these past couple of months with the football we have witnessed and the stubborness of the man but last weekend opened a lot of doors for Martin and the team and if they go through the right one we have nothing to worry about.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Whilst I agree ML has done a great job with minimal resources I do get worried by some of his public remarks.

There are roughly 1,000 fans sitting on the Bench, another 1,000 standing in the pop and a few hundred at each end of the ground in most games. Having been in all three homes areas of the ground but currently residing in the Bench I can honestly say that the comments can be equally negative and critical from all quarters. Sometimes they can even be justified. Only occasionally have they verged on the abusive and we all deplore that. But criticism will always be heard in a crowd of thousands of supporters. Do we really think that if the dugouts were on the pop side ML wouldn't be able to make the same comments about the support from behind him?

And its not just Gulls supporters - I used to sit very close to the away section in the old grandstand and what I often heard directed at the away team's manager would make anyone blush.

No, sadly it is part of being a manager that you have to put up with negative comments from supporters. I think he was spoilt last year by having no one behind him and suddenly this year any criticism seems to be getting under his skin.

Having said that I think Yellow's comments about ML's private life are bang out of order. We all have a right to do what we want in our private lives.

As for formations, I don't think anyone hates any particular formation. For instance Bengull, we didn't hate 442 in the early part of last season. We hated the fact that teams were running right through the middle of our defence and scoring goals. We didn't have the players in that formation to adequately deal with that threat and ML's response, a very successful one, was to bring in Lathrope as the holding midfielder. This meant going to 433 or 451 to accommodate his best players. This was all very well last year with Mansell having his best ever season and access to O'Kane's skills on the ball but in the absence of both these key components this year we have become turgid and predictable.

Without Howe up front we would have been in serious trouble because the midfield has only stuttered through this first part of the season. This is partly due to injuries (Macklin and Stevens), loss of form (Mansell) and loss of a key talent (O'Kane). It is clear we need to give Howe more support and get more bodies in the box at the right times. This can be achieved either by changing formation or by changing personnel. Since he is limited in the latter surely a change of formation was overdue.

Now that he has made the change I hope we see a more positive approach at home or else I fear that we will see attendances reduce with a knock-on impact on his ability to dip into the loan system later in the season.

You're not wrong there mate! Having just read the article on the BBC sports website / league 2 published today about Martin saying Torquay must have a death wish i felt i had to come on here and point a few things out as i am so disappointed and p*ssed off by some of the things he has said.

Whilst most of you on this thread are defending him and calling for positivity and how close we were from a play off spot at the time he doesn't really deserve your optimism after this in my opinion. A few of you have suggested that sometimes it is silly to take what he says after matches verbatim and get concerned over it and i understand that but on this occasion there was absolutely no need for it and he could have said something else or kept his bloody mouth shut!

"It's no use talking about the play offs, we've got to start looking over our shoulder a little bit if we don't start getting wins soon"

So with nearly 3 FULL MONTHS of the season still to go and slowly getting players back from injury and suspensions AND being 7 points off a play off spot which would become 1 if we win our games in hand he is already looking downwards, apparently giving up on achieving anything and accepting mediocrity as though we will all be happy with that as we support Torquay and we are a small club!!!! Makes my f*cking blood boil some of the crap he comes out with. I'm bad but he's getting worse! :~D

Martin, if you concentrate on improving on our great performance at Burton then we can win those games in hand and be in a much healthier position mate. Why must he always come out with negativities? Saying complete bullsh*t like this automatically assumes a negative stance and that can have an adverse effect on the players around him, especially the youngsters. There is no pressure to finish in the play offs and we are in a decent enough position as it is. We're 7 points clear of Wimbledon with a game in hand on them so stop looking at them and start looking at Southend in 7th for Christ's sakes!!! Saying things like "if we don't start getting wins soon" will only prohibit the younger inexperienced players from going out there and free from pressure.

Nobody is talking about the play offs Lingy and if they are then they need to get a reality check but we MUST be aiming for them at the very least and have something for the players to try and aim for. We probably won't get there but why start looking down when there is still 3 months to go? What is the priority now? Keeping above Wimbledon?

He also says,"We'll end up in a relegation fight if we're not careful". Er yes, i think we are aware of that Martin but we if the time comes then it comes. It hasn't come yet. Beat Exeter tomorrow and we are 10 clear of 2nd bottom and 4 off a play off spot with a game in hand. Everything will look rosier, he should be praising the lads for a much improved comitted performance at Burton and saying forget about Burton, it's done with and i'm concentrating all my efforts on beating Exeter.

Why get bogged down by making negative comments when he doesn't need to? I'm not inspired as a fan so i don't know what the players are getting. I feel some of the things he says ( like my signature at the bottom of my profile for example ) are kind of a personal dig because i'm a Torquay fan and i can be placated by comments of 'realism' well all i can say is that he should bloody well not forget who pay his wages!

He also says the better side got beat on the day. Howe missed a glorious chance and Bodin steered a volley wide. Poke meanwhile had to make numerous saves, blocks, catches under pressure and we certainly were NOT the better side Martin. I'd say it was just about equal but Burton being the home side had more clearcut chances to score. We deserved a point and that would have been a fair result on the balance of play.

I'm really concerned now having read this as we have some extremely difficult games coming up. Cheltenham, Exeter, Rochdale away and home to Exeter, Rotherham, Chesterfield, Fleetwood and Port Vale in the next 7 or 8 weeks. Looking at that lot and the belief that Martin has accepted a relegation battle already i think we could be in a spot of bother.

[Chris B]

I disagree completely, Andy, I think it's about time Ling faced up to the fact we've won just 2 in 11, and are sliding down the table whilst those below us win. Personally, I don't think 50pts will be enough to survive this season. Instead of burying our heads in the sand, we need to come to terms with the severity of our current situation and scrap our way out of it, particularly with the difficult fixtures ahead.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Fair enough Chris. I probably just like to look for negatives in errr, negatives. :~D

[AustrianAndyGull]

What i find bizarre is that if we get dragged into a serious relegation scrap and we manage to somehow get out of it at the death will Ling be a hero? I'm not saying that will happen but i fully expect double standards if that happened and people who fully supported him throughout the obvious appalling stuff we have had earlier on this season would come on and want him out. Likewise if he got us relegated i'm sure the same people would come on here and want to keep Ling as manager in the BSP yes?

This site is surreal when it is I who is calling for some positivity and everyone else is being negative ( or realistic ) and accepting defeat already!! I can't get my f*cking head around it! I'm the negative one not you so can i join you over there? I don't like it over here in the positivity corner, it's lonely. If anybody else thinks Martin should be looking up instead of down then please come and join me. I'm sure if we beat the Greeks and Aldershot and suddenly were catapulted into the play off fringe then you'd be coming out then and saying we can go for it and you'd be p*ssed off then if we got into the play offs but suddenly played crap for 6 games and dropped out . What is it you want? Up, down, back up again make your minds up. I can just see it now, Martin suddenly playing defensive again and grinding out points enough to comfortably keep us up and then all of a sudden everyone is happy. Then next season kicks off and we get the same standard of football, we come on here again saying we aren't happy etc and it's a vicious circle. If none of you want Torquay to go for it and be success or are indifferent to it and are happy with mid table so long as you don't get relegated then why bother moaning about performances or losses. It shouldn't matter because so long as you get enough points to achieve mediocrity then surely you don't want any more and you will be happy. "Torquay lost again today, third loss on the spin" said a bloke, "oh i'm not bothered because we are well clear of 2nd bottom anyway so the result and performance doesn't matter to me because i am happy where we are" said fan. There is no point coming on here and complaining about getting gubbed against Southend or going out of the cup to Harrogate because it doesn't matter. So long as we don't get relegated all is well. If you are happy to think that way then that is absolutely fine but just don't moan about anything.