Why so negative?

[Richinns]

We could be in Bristol Rovers position you know!

Seems a lot of people are falling out on here and a lot of people have illusions beyond current realistic capabilities.

We are having mediocre season and at times the style of play has also been this (or worse) but I ask you - what should we expect with the resources available to us and the finances that are provided to the club through attendances?

If truth be told - in the last two seasons - we have over achieved considerably and now it seems a certain proportion of the fans think this is the 'norm'. In actual fact we are probably over achieving being mid-table for a club our size in the division we are in.

Injuries and suspensions have hit hard this season to a small squad (facilitated by our financial spending power) and they are having an affect which we have not seen in previous seasons.

Time to get behind the team and realise we are going along just fine as a club and we are now building a structure for the future from the ruins of a club which Roberts and Bateson left behind.
Think about it - Training facilities, a new impressive stand and changing rooms, reintroduction of a youth system which is beginning to produce, a big screen, a chairman and board who are not knee jerk, a manager who is not irrational and a complete dick etc etc.

Credit where it is due people - we are now stable, and a safe League club. In reality - we cannot expect too much more at this stage.

I think some should stop and think about this and stop all the negative moaning!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Good post Richinns but i strongly feel that people are taking my issues the wrong way. Of course i am over the moon with the all round state the club is in, that is not my gripe.

My gripe isn't even the standard or quality of football from limited league 2 players.

My gripe is that if you are the manager of a kids under 10's team you can at least send them out onto the pitch and get them to get stuck in from the first whistle to the last, even in this day and age of teaching kids to play like Barcelona and retain the ball they could still be encouraged to get the ball forward quick and try and score some goals right from the kick off. It's called ambition and also requires another word that Ling is not familiar with - TEMPO. We always begin games like subbuteo players instead of getting in there and in their faces. It's so moribund that you could read an entire newspaper between attacks, especially away where you could read a bloody encyclopedia!

Nobody seems to accept my theory that a manager does not need a team of Lionel Messi's and Cristiano Ronaldo's in order to get their team to attack and play at a high tempo. It can be done with any squad no matter what their ability, that is why teams from lower divisions knock out teams from higher divisions, because right from the kick off they are at it, they don't give up, they play at a high tempo and they don't let the opposition back into it by dropping off and playing into their hands like we do every week. They pepper the oppositions goal with shots from anywhere, they force things and they want to win the game. We don't do any of this and if we went back to the blood and thunder of the 90's or even 80's then we would win more games than we would draw that is for sure.

I am not negative for the sake of it, i have a valid and genuine reason for it and it is only one reason. You all think i want to moan about the club in any way i can! It's ridiculous! I'm sure many of you are pleased with the playing side of TUFC and the youth set up but hate the catering for example, that's fine. It's just one aspect of the club that you feel you want to complain about. My aspect is Lings management style. The pies may be great, the programme, the matchday catering all great, am i being accused of slating everything TUFC and being negative about all things TUFC?

NO! Ling needs to attack from the kick off. That is my only complaint. There are teams in this league that we could rip to shreds if we played at top speed and confidence but so long as Ling is happy with draws from these then our football will always be tepid to watch and that is the key issue for me. The fact that we will not be able to accumulate enough points to be successful playing Lings style is a side issue. Also we are only about 10 points off Aldershot i believe so if they beat us then we could be sliding towards the bottom with more of a gap between us and 3rd bottom than off the top! Wake up Yellow army! If the unthinkable happened and Ling took us down would you still be saying it's because we had a depleted squad and admonish him of any blame? I doubt it hypocrites! You lot will only come on and complain when things aren't going well which is so predictable. Things are ok at the moment in terms of league postion but i have put warning signs up on here for months about the football we are playing and it will end up in a relegation battle come April.

[coley in stripes]

Fine form today Andy...Honest feelings put well

[Forest gull]

Spot on. Just look at the clubs below us??? Were not doing too bad at all. We all want free flowing sexy football, but can we honestly expect champagne on a fizzy pop budget?

Has Ling made mistakes? Yes Im sure he has. Hands up the person who has stopped learning?????

I coach Boxers at International level, and am constantly learning, because I have to in order to survive.

Give the manager a break, get behind the team, all of the team, all of the time.

[Sexy_Gulls]

I guess Ling could tell the players to kick it long, stampede forward and hope for the best but I'm glad he doesn't want us to go down that root.

The more attacking, gambling options that I could think off are..
1. Playing Yeoman. Could be good, could be bad. He's 19(?) and never had a run in any professional team. Like I've said before all of our wide attackers bar Stevens are very young and inexperienced.

2. Get the fullbacks forward more. Oastler should get forward more but Nicho is very slow so only 1 fullback could be hitting the byline.

3. Play Craig in the middle. Should help us with creating chances, but again don't expect him to run games in his first ever season.

4. Buy another striker. Surely this will happen, but who knows who it will be and whether he will work out.

5. Can't really think of much else. It's surely not as easy as just telling the lads to attack more, or all teams would be capable of exerting the kind of pressure Man U manage whenever there a goal down with 10 minutes to go. The above ideas all seem like tweaks rather than strokes of genius.

We have a manager who wants to pass the ball around. Unfortunately with the sale of Eunan we don't really have a squad capable of this. They show glimpses of it, most of the time we do create a couple of excellent chances, but really we can't control a game this way. I don't see what playing more directly will bring us, other than a sore neck. And a team that is still learning a passing game shouldn't be hindered by being asked to do it at breakneck speed either
Ling has shown himself to be a very capable longterm manager. He has trusted in every member of the squad rather than bringing in quick fixes, he hasn't fallen out with anyone, he managed miracles last season with no money, half a ground and a tiny squad. He has fostered a very tight, motivated unit out of a disparate group of players who either hadn't played together or had reputations for being lazy. That in itself is a big part of the manager's role, hence the name. This season he has had to cope with key players leaving, lots of injuries and a home pitch that doesn't help us.
Yes it can be frustrating when we play poorly and struggle to create chances. But there really isn't an easy fix to our attacking problems.

[AustrianAndyGull]

To solve a problem, the person responsible for solving it must at first realise that there is a problem to solve.

I like that quote, it's one of mine actually. I'm not a great philosopher but i'd like to post a return thread entitled:

'WHY SO POSITIVE?'

In it would be examples of misplaced positivity and i'd have a go at members with positive viewpoints constantly praising the team, manager and club. It wouldn't work though as those people are in a majority and it's only us with minority views that get victimised like we have done with threads like this. Don't get me wrong Richinns, it's a good post and i love reading your stuff but i am 'negative' about Martin Ling and i have a reason 'why' so to single me out in a thread claiming i and others that share my views are wrong and should be shamed is unacceptable.

I won't post the WHY SO POSITIVE thread because i'll more than likely be accused of being childish and immature even though it would be a perfectly reasonable question to ask.

Oh and the usual excuses come out again in the above post ( not singling you out sexygulls, there are many that share your view and i respect that ) BUT

1. The players are young and inexperienced? AND?

no excuse

2. We don't have the attacking capability? We have one of the best strikers in the division so all we have to do is get the service to him and it's half the battle. How hard can it be? We have Bodin who is a white elephant and should not be in the side, we have Thommo who is someone we need and can use, he isn't being used properly by Ling. We have Jarvis who doesn't offer a lot but if you give him the right service he will score. We have Stevens who can produce quality service but not enough of it. Jarvis and Howe can score us a shedload but the way we play doesn't suit either.

no excuse

we have had Olejnik heading everyones man of the match votes last season and now it's always Poke up there every game. Why? If you can't work THAT out and not be concerned then i give up.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Oh and also sexy gulls, if you can find the bit where i said knock it long and stampede forward then i'd like to know where it is please. I want us to get more players forward much quicker in attacking moves, that is totally different from hoofing it from back to front ( which is actually what we did for a while when Rene was isolated up top on his own and there was a gap as big as the grand canyon in between he and our midfield. If we throw men forward at pace and with purpose then there is no need for long balls. Again, more of my comments completely skewed and misrepresented.

I appreciate Lings passing philosophy and i want him to continue this and develop it but it isn't quick enough when it really matters and it is so laboured at times that the best option may be just to hoof it anyway!

[Sexy_Gulls]

Players being young and inexperienced means you can't expect them to be brilliant every week. I like how you say this doesn't matter then claim that Thomspon (18) will be an improvement. How do you know this? He's shown on occasion to be a good attacker but hasn't done much other than on his debut, young players often have good debuts as they try and make a name for themselves. Thompson has potential but shouldn't be expected to change games. I agree Bodin should be dropped though so perhaps we will find out, but don't build him up.

I'm not making excuses, I actually agree with you that we are negative. I'm trying to explain why we are though and that we don't have much option other than to play the way we do. We certainly aren't capable of changing immediately, no football team is.

I'd also argue that Ling has been capable of fixing problems in the past (the formation last season, playing Jarvis for example), so why doubt that he doesn't realise our problems? I don't think you are giving the manager anywhere near the amount of time it takes to change teams. Either that or you would rather we were exciting (whatever that means) but end up with less points. In which case I disagree completely.

Oh and also sexy gulls, if you can find the bit where i said knock it long and stampede forward then i'd like to know where it is please. I want us to get more players forward much quicker in attacking moves, that is totally different from hoofing it from back to front

Because at our level it is impossible to get a team to play passing football with pace. Either we kick it long or we pass it more patiently. It's very hard to combine pasisng football and directness, look at Liverpool's problems scoring goals. The style of football you ask for, getting players forward, moving the ball quickly etc is what we all want. I'm sure Lingy wants the same. But clearly it is difficult to do otherwise everyone would be doing it.

I understand your frustrations and agree with a lot of what you say regarding our problems I just don't think theres a magic button that will solve them. Regardless of who the manager is.

[Scott Brehaut]

Oh and the usual excuses come out again in the above post ( not singling you out sexygulls, there are many that share your view and i respect that ) BUT

1. The players are young and inexperienced? AND?

no excuse

Sorry Andy but it is a bloody good excuse.

We have no money and an "ok" youth set up.
We are having to rely on players like Thommo, Yeoman and Halpin et al to replace players like Ellis and Eunan.
It's just not going to happen - they don't have the experience, or indeed the skill level to do that.

However, as said, we have no money so can't replace quality with quality - hence the level of footballing performance will suffer which then result in some people not wanting to attend matches due to the "dross" being shown (not aiming at anybody just stating facts), then, of course, with lower attendances due to people not wanting to go brings lower gate receipts which equals less money to buy players.

The other point, that of Ling not playing to people's strengths - well I can't comment that much as I haven't seen the team play this season.....however he has shown a desire to "muck around" with the formation every so often which would suggest to me that he is at least trying to identify the strongest team to play. Of course he has also had to suffer with key players being injured at just the wrong time - when they were coming into form (Macklin, Jarvis, Thommo for eg) and so has had to compensate for that each time....throw in a striker who is going through a barren spell, a midfielder who hasn't scored anywhere near the same amount as last season and you arrive somewhere near the reason why we are somewhat lacklustre.

Could Ling be doing more? Well, we as fans will always see things differently to that of the manager when we are on a poor run of form - and that is just what football is like....however the only one whose opinion actually counts is Mr Lings - as it is his opinion that makes or breaks him and decides whether or not, ultimately, he stays or goes.

[AustrianAndyGull]

An example of a typical attack which we should be doing. Give the ball to Thommo / Stevens who run with the ball at defenders and whip balls into the area. That is all they have to do, they don't even need to look up at where they are hitting the ball just as long as they attack at pace and whip balls in. If we have Howe, Jarvis and a couple of others in there then we can get on the end of it. I was at the Northampton home game and was not surprised to find that Northampton had loads of men over in and around our penalty area in dangerous attacking situations and when it was our turn to attack we only had a few up top. It was only a crisp precision pass by Craig to Stevens who picked out Jarvis to score that created our only opportunity of note. It was only a matter of time that Northampton scored from one of their plethora of goalmaouth scrambles in the box because they had the manpower in there in the first place! We don't have to play like Barcelona, just give the ball to our quick players to run and cross and so long as we have men over we can score goals. If a fast player like Thommo can't do something as simple as run fast with the ball and cross it and a clinical finisher like Howe can't get on the end of some of the crosses then God knows!

[AustrianAndyGull]

I see what you're saying Scott about Thommo replacing Eunan and the like but if that's the way it is then that's the way it is. Why then would you still try and play the same way when you have totally different players?

[Sexy_Gulls]

Surely the goal against Northampton, where Craig plays it to Stevens who runs down the line, crosses and Jarvis finishes, is exactly the typical move you describe.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I suppose you could see it that way sexygulls but that move was more of a slow build up with pin point accuracy from all players involved resulting in a goal. It wasn't so much a ball slung in the box for loads of our men in yellow to attack. The goal required skill and accuracy from all concerned and that is something that doesn't happen to often and if we relied on that type of goal then we'd be in trouble. We need MORE goals so the more time we spend in the opponents area testing their defenders the more we will score. It's pretty simple.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Is there anyone out there at all that sees things like myself and Coley? Surely there must be? If you are one of them then please post on here and let us know your thoughts, it's not easy firefighting an entire army of Ling lovers on my own!

I need some more recruits. :~D :~D

Whatever, i will go down with this ship and i won't put my hands up to surrender, there will be no white flag above my door. ( there might be a f*cking horse's head there soon though! 8-] )

P.S: May i just take this opportunity to categorically state that the words above are my own and not those of a disastrous female pop singer who has a name which, if you added the letter L in the right place she would be a sex aid. That has to be clarified otherwise you'll just take the p*ss.

[Sexy_Gulls]

oh well.

Stats tell me that away from home we have scored 9 (3rd lowest) and conceded 11 (3rd best)
At home we have scored 21 (joint 7th highest) and conceded 16 (middling bad, cant be bothered)

So we are defensive away from home and get the stats you would expect. It's a pretty accurate reflection on our tactics and results away from home W2D5L5

At home our decent scoring record and not that great defense shows suggests that we are trying to be more attacking but not getting the rewards. Tellingly we concede more goals due to our attacking play at home. Our 6 wins isn't too far behind the highest and our goals scored is only 5 less than the most prolific team.
So really its the defense who are letting us down at home, perhaps due to us being too attacking...