Cheltenham Town v Torquay United - 2/2/12

[oxgull]

About the best part of yesterday was seeing my daughter and a cheap pint with Forever and Gloster in the Park End Social Club before the game. We got what we deserved which was jack!! First half was acceptable as we caused a few problems for them but after going a goal down from a corner it was always going to be an uphill struggle. As for the second half WTF was going on??? Sleep walking around and 0-2 down in no time. We really don't have that spark and drive any more so Rene's consolation goal late on really was just that as Cheltenham well deserved the points. Stand out performances yesterday was from Poke and Downes with Howe working tirelessly up front chasing everything. Apart from that??? well I'm down next weekend to see my dad in Kingsteignton so will see how we are at home cause we really need those 13 odd points to get to 50 and, hopefully, safety. Not good at all but hey! we are Torquay so life is never a bowl of cherry's is it?

[bengull]

Yes yes, I get all that, we played crap, some players didn't look like they knew which way they were shooting etc, I was there, I have been all season, it was dismal viewing, I am just at a loss to understand what calling certain members 'f***ing s**t' or whatever is going to do to help the situation at that exact moment in the match, especially when you could use the same amount of effort and energy trying to raise the players.

Openly abusing the protracted substitution of Easton for Lathrope was one of the most shameful acts I have experienced in a long time, I don't know whether the fan's protestations had any real effect on it being halted but even so Easton is not so bad that his arrival should be feared, and the general calls of incompetence and discontent do little to fix the situation of being behind. It may not have been the most innovative of changes had it gone ahead, but the tactical tweeks and nuances may have made a massive difference, we will never know. For what it's worth, in my opinion, with the exception of Aldershot at home, our substitutions have made zero difference to the outcome throughout the season, and it's an area I would be looking to change straightaway.

Criticising the team for me should be saved for the car journey home (and believe me I am not a superfan of some, more or all of our players), on here, and at the very most at the final whistle. Telling the team they are hopeless with 30 minutes to go is completely detrimental, I have never seen a team turn it round when their own fans have turned on them, if anything it makes them want to get off the pitch as quickly as possible.

I get the spending money thing, trust me I do, but to me it's a choice I make when I am budgeting my week. If I want to go to the match, the money becomes irrelevant regardless of scoreline. £20 on monday night felt like a bargain for the joy and pride it made me feel for the rest of the week, the £50 i 'wasted' yesterday is just par the course of supporting my team throughout the season. I realise I am in the minority here, but I have stood in too many terraces throughout the years to know that when the going gets tough, the fans have to stand up and be counted throughout the adversity, even if it doesn't seem like the players share that mentality. We will still be contributing to our club long after the players have left.

As i say, we were awful yesterday; I am not normally so scathing in my reports, but looking at the bigger picture things could be a whole lot worse.

[oxgull]

Ben that is a fantastic post, and I agree with everything that I am in a position to comment on.

I have written a lengthy report on the game on our forum, but I did think 2-1 was a flattering scoreline. You seem to be very reliant on Howe. You were by no means the worst side we have played, and I still back you to reach the top ten, but you hit us on a good day (and I hope we shall have many more of those to come).

Your fans completely out-sang our lot (although I don't really give a damn - alongside attendance comparisons, I am amazed by how much bandwidth is spent on forums discussing these completely irrelevant topics), but I thought the relentless 'I want to go home' chant was pretty lame. Not very witty, and Cheltenham is hardly a 'sh*t hole'.

I like Cheltenham and, as my daughter went to Uni and now lives there, love going there. I wouldn't worry about the singing as it will be done at every away game. You deserved the points and you have a good, well run and friendly club and I hope you go up this term. Better you than Exeter

[Hubert Parry]

Thanks - and I still think you will be the number 1 team in Devon this season. I can't see the nonagenarians of Exeter lasting a full 46 games.

[Colorado Gull]

Wasn't at the game yesterday, I sadly couldn't, even though I usually make the short trip up to Cheltenhamshire. Reading the great posts and reports (forevertufc and ben's especially) I'm glad I didn't go. Sounded like we played woeful and I really thought the City win on Monday would have kick started our season, I was wrong.

Even though I wasn't at the game, reading the reports I can imagine what we played like because it's the same feedback every week, we're so predictable. We need a change in some sort and it needs to get better.

[gullintwoplaces]

Some very sane, rational comments from bengull. Far better to read this than the shooting from the hip nonsense that we see far too much of on here. Football fans as a breed are a whinging bunch of fu**wits, I looked incredulously at Exeweb after we won on Monday. Some of them gave the City keeper 5/10 (what the hell did he do wrong, apart from let in a well taken penalty?), many of them whined on and on and in about how awful Tisdale is (why?). I bet you if I scanned the forums of teams in the top 3 of each division/League I would find the same old whinging cr*p.

I have said before on here that we need to get behind the team no matter what. Complain all you like in the pub afterwards but get behind the team during games, that's what being a supporter is all about. I have heard some folk in Bristow's Bench and on the Pop Side who make Brucie seem sane (imagine that!). God help us, why do these people go to games?

The team is not playing well, we all agree on that. The cause of this is certainly not the selling of Ellis and Bobby, as they have been replaced by very capable players. Eunan we certainly miss, but for me this is much more about key players who played well last season performing well below their level of capability. Berating these players during games is hardly likely to make them improve is it? If they don't improve, I expect movement during the Summer, but until then we should get behind the team. Imagine what a crowd consisting of Brucies would sound like to the players/ Would you want to work in such circumstances?

[gurneygibbs23]

Limp performance yesterday. Fleetwood and Rotherham will come here with no fears at all. We need to change things, please Martin Ling get some courage and shake it up. Lineup and Tactics. ITs not working !!!!

Poke, Downes, Bodin and Howe the only performers. Downes especially. The rest sucked.

Tactically we have a problem, if we dont get a lead by half time then its game over. As we have no plan B.

The fullbacks are out of sorts and have no protection, The centre halfs are under pressure constantly and the defensive midfielders are all over the shop.
And we have no cohesion. The ball is being aimlessley pumped except occaisionally Rene will get a bit of space to hold on to the ball.

Its not working. We need a tactical change. Our 1st half performance vs Dagenham was decent, we had Easton and Craig in centre mid and it worked!
Easton won 50/50s and distributed well, Craig was in his element - in the middle, he got to dictate play. Rene saw plenty of ball and it all worked that day.

I suggest we try that again, I appreciate Lathrope and Manse did well vs City, but yesterday they were hopeless. Manse cant pass and Lathrope is not consistent enough.

We dont keep the ball well enough - the system we play doesnt work apart from 1st 20 mins of games!

jarvis was poor in last 2 games, Yeoman needs a games, hell he deserves it after being excellent on his only start for us.

We need to shuffle the pack give some other players a go. Striker is gonna be a problem with Rene out.

Poke
Leadbitter Saah Downes Cruise
Easton Craig
Macklin Yeoman Bodin
A LOAN STRIKER/ or jarvis if no one comes in!

Fleetwood and Rotherham will not expect that - im sure they will be able to cope with our tactics we use currently so we have to change things.

[Forest gull]

I made the twenty minute journey to Whaddon Road. Wasn't good. The brilliant three points at Sid James park was worth celebrating, yesterday wasn't. :-(

[ROADRUNNER]

did anyone see the idiot from chelteham who was on the pitch near the end who was just ambling along then picks the ball up and kicks it away, perhaps hubert parry could tell us what he was doing on the pitch how come the stewards just let him walk along the touchline, if that was at plainmorr he would have been dropped on by half a dozen stewards and removed to the police room, when i asked a steward at the end he said he would be banned, did he actually get arrested? what a knob

[goodluckgull]

Yeah I saw him and he looked old enough to know better.Even some little kids managed to waste time holding the ball. That five minutes added on seemed to go so fast. It never goes that quick when we are desperate for the final whistle to go!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Great posts Ben but knock it off with the fancy words mate, the fact is it went t*ts up! (Partridgeism there).

If i may pull you up on something though, you say that if we don't like losing then we should be supporting another club. I don't think it's losing football matches that i myself get annoyed about, it's the way we lose them and from what people have said, the second half yesterday was the worst. This season has seen me watch two of the worst Torquay performances i have ever seen clumped together with another batch of assorted rubbish. If i'm honest, Burton away was the only game i have seen out of about 12 that we looked like a team and i was really impressed. So i think it's not the losing but just the incessant turgidity that we get served up that get's peoples backs up.

Myopia?!!

[bengull]

You know you can always pull me up mate, in a strictly non-sexual context of course.

I agree that the standard of football has been hard to bear for large periods of the season, and it is quickly deterring more and more fans by the week. However you can only play as well as the opposition let you, and whilst the first half yesterday was even for large periods, in the second we were poor, but they were also very good. We didn't play badly for the entire 90 minutes, but much of the second half was as bad as anything we've seen this season. My point still remains though that no matter how poorly we are playing, I really don't see how shouting one's mouth off until one's heart is content is going to improve the situation. Although the argument does stand that if you pay your money you have a right to air an opinion, I would always suggest that voting with your feet would be more effective than voting with your voice.

Perhaps I am just an oddball with far too much patience for what I see in front of me. Being a Torquay fan is a stern test of character, but I seem to get more angry at our fans spouting abuse than I do at our lads for playing poorly. Maybe I should join in with the majority and abuse the same players who last week I was worshipping for beating City and see if it makes me feel any better about the fact we have lost. I will tell you now it wouldn't.

For me you have to put up with the bad times because they will make the good times all the more sweeter.

[ROADRUNNER]

well said bengull, there is no place for people like this at our club, only the other week billy bodin was booed by some idiots on the popside when his name was read out from the team sheet, these players need our support, when i hear people slag our players off it makes me so angry, whoever you are you are not needed, support your team or ship out is my response.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Can i just say that i rarely if ever shout abuse or have ago at our players during a game and i hope you would vouch for that Ben, i agree that it is counterproductive and achieves nothing. It shows a certain amount of decorum and self restraint to do this but i am perfectly happy coming on here to air my views, grievences and complaints of players and performances and i think some people think i moan ALL the time and have no brain. I believe it is perfectly reasonable to come on this forum and moan about players if warranted.

So just to confirm - I am not a numpte who hurls abuse at games.

Thankyou and goodnight.

[Dave]

No one in their right minds can justify shouting personal abuse at any player whether it is before after or during the game, It simply is not called for at all. Players do not go out with the intention to make a mistake or play below the level of their ability, with the best will in the world no player is going to hit his best form and produce a flawless performance in every game.

Agreed sometimes the other team is going have full control on the match and it is difficult for any team let alone ours to regain control. Stating the obvious, sometimes a tatical change is needed, the most important thing all though is making sure your team is doing the simple things and getting the basics right .

And that is my gripe on the second half, yes Cheltenham did up their game and there is no doubting they are a very good side. Retain possession, how many times in the second half did one of our players fail to complete a 5 yrd pass, far to many times and unforgivable for a pro at any level, how many times did we take the option to go quick and long to Rene Howe, who was up against two powerful, big centre halfs, bless his cotton socks Rene battled for every thing, but was isolated and he battled in vein, possession lost, Cheltenham forming yet another attack..wrong options.

Decision making, long ball played out wide going straight to Joe Oastler, he had the time to take one of a few options, basic schoolboy defending we all know it "do not let the ball bounce" Bleedin regulation header, what does Joe do, let the ball bounce , how many times has he done that this season, sorry Joe about time you learnt that one.

Their second goal, again basic defending, do not go to tight to soon agreed, however when a striker is back to goal in the box, going touch tight and do not let the lad turn and get his shot away is so important , what we do, not only give the lad all the time in the world to turn and shoot, but then us fans have watch a daisy cutter roll into the back of our net.

Ball crossed in falls to an unmarked Kaid Mohamed, thankfully he completely missed the target from 6 yrds when an average U14 probably would have stuck in the net, where was Brian Saah, do not get me wrong I am a big fan of Saah who has been immense for us, but he was far, far to close to Aaron Downes, again basic defending.

No matter how good or how in control the other side are do the simple thing, get the basics right, take the right options more often than not because under pressure agreed it is easy to get it wrong but surely you expect a pro to get things right more often than wrong, then you give yourself a chance.