Port Vale v Torquay United - 1/9/12

[hector]

Of interest to me are local amateurs (today known as non - contract players) who have made a starting début for the TUFC first team.

In the Dave Webb era (oops, sorry about the four letter words :Oops: ) there were several. Two players who spring to mind are Mark "Smudger" Smith (son of former player Harry Smith) and Gary Wright. In my opinion, two excellent local players who stepped up to the plate to play League football.

I also remember from the early 1970's, centre half Len Jackson (an insurance salesman who played regular in the Western League for TUFC) making a full début.

Mark Smith came into the side under Bruce Rioch and had been at someone like Saltash prior to that.

The really 'local' players (i.e. from South Devon League) that I remember under Webb, were Derek Fowler from STC, Tony Fowler from Foxhole United and Andy Best from Teignmouth (although, even, Teignmouth were possibly South western League at the time, but there is apossibility that he played for Newton Spurs). Derek Fowler arrived with quite a good reputation locally as a prolific scorer at SDL level. I think people had high hopes for him but as a forward he never really did much. It was as a central defender that he fared better (although in that team, it was difficult to fare well). Tony Fowler and Andy Best sadly, were miles out of their depth.

I am not sure there have been many or any, who have come into the team from the South Devon League since then. Obviously there have been players who have come from localish football (Kevin Hill for one) but he was playing Western League standard. Not sure where Karl Baker was playing, but if it was SDL then he could be the first player the SDL have produced for a generation.

When I have played local football and played against some really good players, you often think, they could make, it but they never seem to do. Carl Cliff-Brown was one such player so it makes you appreciate how good players have to be to prosper at Football League level.

[Trojan 67]

Between 1971 and 1973 the Western League Reserves and the Colts Youth Team trained together at Plainmoor Tuesday and Thursday evenings. Don Mills, Denis Penford and Les Pope oversaw the training and seniors like Lenny chipped in too.

The run down to Oddicombe Beach and sprints up and down the prom weren't a problem, it was the run over to Babbacombe Beach and the "run" up that killer hill.

Club apprentices at the time were Dave Pook, Tommy Govan (son of former Argyle player Alex Govan) and Steve Pope. Other Western League regulars I remember besides Lenny Jackson, are Terry Price, Tommy Trankle and Andy Lott.

[Kernowgull]

Other great players from Saltash to represent Torquay include, me, in Torquay fans v Bristol Rovers fans in Bristol, December 2005. My left foot curled thunder bolt from 40 yards (definitely not a scuffed 18 yard mishit lob, as robc would have you believe) was almost as spectacular as Sako's winner if the aftershow.

Anyone else play in that game?

[stefano]

Between 1971 and 1973 the Western League Reserves and the Colts Youth Team trained together at Plainmoor Tuesday and Thursday evenings. Don Mills, Denis Penford and Les Pope oversaw the training and seniors like Lenny chipped in too.

The run down to Oddicombe Beach and sprints up and down the prom weren't a problem, it was the run over to Babbacombe Beach and the "run" up that killer hill.

Club apprentices at the time were Dave Pook, Tommy Govan (son of former Argyle player Alex Govan) and Steve Pope. Other Western League regulars I remember besides Lenny Jackson, are Terry Price, Tommy Trankle and Andy Lott.

Those Tuesday and Thursday night training sessions were a killer after a full day of work at Centrax. No time to eat. From work on to bus to Castle Circus. Walk up the hill to Plainmoor to save money, then a couple of hours of strenuous training that often rendered even the fittest amongst us physically sick! I was just a little bit ahead of you Trojan, doing the Tuesday and Thursday evening routine from 1968 to Christmas 1970 when I moved to Brixham United. A couple of the older pros Doug Clarke and Geoff Cox sometimes used to turn up to assist Don Mills, and occasionally first team coach Jack Edwards would be around.

I think it was four of the Torquay United youth team from my time who made it into the Football League. Both Ian Twitchin (from Teignmouth) and Phil Sandercock (from Plymouth) made their football league debuts in 1969/70 when still youth players. Both played a few hundred games for the Gulls Ian staying at Plainmoor throughout his career while Phil also played for Huddersfield Town and Northampton Town. Goalkeeper Robbie Robbins (from Newton Abbot) played semi-professional for various Western League clubs before having one season with the Gulls in 1976/77 playing 19 games. Another goalkeeper Pat Roche didn't figure in our first team, but after initially moving back to Ireland he then became a regular first team goalie for Manchester United.

[Trojan 67]

Mark Smith came into the side under Bruce Rioch and had been at someone like Saltash prior to that.

The really 'local' players (i.e. from South Devon League) that I remember under Webb, were Derek Fowler from STC, Tony Fowler from Foxhole United and Andy Best from Teignmouth (although, even, Teignmouth were possibly South western League at the time, but there is apossibility that he played for Newton Spurs). Derek Fowler arrived with quite a good reputation locally as a prolific scorer at SDL level. I think people had high hopes for him but as a forward he never really did much. It was as a central defender that he fared better (although in that team, it was difficult to fare well). Tony Fowler and Andy Best sadly, were miles out of their depth.

I am not sure there have been many or any, who have come into the team from the South Devon League since then. Obviously there have been players who have come from localish football (Kevin Hill for one) but he was playing Western League standard. Not sure where Karl Baker was playing, but if it was SDL then he could be the first player the SDL have produced for a generation.

When I have played local football and played against some really good players, you often think, they could make, it but they never seem to do. Carl Cliff-Brown was one such player so it makes you appreciate how good players have to be to prosper at Football League level.

Steve Carpenter formerly of Hele Rovers and STC ?

Entry into the Football League back in the early 1970's for teams in the south was by election. Southern League Premier (no Conference National back then) would be considered in today's terms as Step 1. Southern League Division One Step 2, Western League (no Western League Division One back then) Step 3, South Western League Step 3/4 with the local district league Premier Divisions being the equivalent of Step 4/5.

Today, the South Devon League Premier is considered to be "Step 8" in the non league pyramid and "Step 12" with the Premiership and Football League included.




I didn't realise the standard of South Devon League Premier had fallen to those depths.

[Trojan 67]

Those Tuesday and Thursday night training sessions were a killer after a full day of work at Centrax. No time to eat. From work on to bus to Castle Circus. Walk up the hill to Plainmoor to save money, then a couple of hours of strenuous training that often rendered even the fittest amongst us physically sick! I was just a little bit ahead of you Trojan, doing the Tuesday and Thursday evening routine from 1968 to Christmas 1970 when I moved to Brixham United. A couple of the older pros Doug Clarke and Geoff Cox sometimes used to turn up to assist Don Mills, and occasionally first team coach Jack Edwards would be around.

I think it was four of the Torquay United youth team from my time who made it into the Football League. Both Ian Twitchin (from Teignmouth) and Phil Sandercock (from Plymouth) made their football league debuts in 1969/70 when still youth players. Both played a few hundred games for the Gulls Ian staying at Plainmoor throughout his career while Phil also played for Huddersfield Town and Northampton Town. Goalkeeper Robbie Robbins (from Newton Abbot) played semi-professional for various Western League clubs before having one season with the Gulls in 1976/77 playing 19 games. Another goalkeeper Pat Roche didn't figure in our first team, but after initially moving back to Ireland he then became a regular first team goalie for Manchester United.

I remember that era well but was still in the Pioneer league with Torre Trojans with Gary, Larry and Kev.

[Plymouth Gull]

Have we ever had a match thread with 110 replies prior to kickoff? Think thats a first!

[bixieupnorth]

yeah, but hardly any of them actually about the game later are they??

tough game but one we're more than capable of winning, i'm gonna go for a 0-1 victory, howe, 176 gulls there

[Trojan 67]

Have we ever had a match thread with 110 replies prior to kickoff? Think thats a first!

yeah, but hardly any of them actually about the game later are they??

:Oops:

[Neal]

what an easy drive that was. lovely sunny day here in the potteries, infact I dont exactly know what town Im in . Parking nice and easy so everything looking good so far, famous last words eh! Nice looking ground from outside too.

[Trojan 67]

I dont exactly know what town Im in .

Potter about and discover the Mother town of Burslem.

[Jeff]

Perfect day for football. Warm and sunny with minimal breeze.

[bixieupnorth]

any team news from those at the game??

[Jeff]

any team news from those at the game??

Haven't read the team out yet, nor have they broken off into the warm up routine where the starting XI do one-touch passing.

However there is no sign of Stevens so obviously he didn't make the bench. Sullivan is warming up so I guess he will be on there. I guess the only question is do we go with Thompson, Cruise or Jarvis

EDIT - BBC reporting both Craig and Thompson are starting. Craig in for Easton, who I've now realised I can't see out there.

[bixieupnorth]

cheers jeff, many gulls about today?