Torquay United v York City - 5/10/13

[bengull]

Hi referee, assuming you have the mental capacity to read further than the first paragraph of my post you will read that I said you deserved the 3 points and your 250 fans were a credit to the club, I can only assume therefore that you were not present.

Well done and all that but you won't get an easier 3 points all season. Play like you did in the first half hour and you may not get another 3 points all season.

[Richinns]

Without wishing to get into a protracted argument with you Rich my point was more the fact that after 10 games we are down to the bare bones at the heart of our defence. Yes there are mitigating circumstances which are unfortunate I don't doubt that, but against Newport we had no defensive cover on the bench, same again today. That lack of foresight after 10 games doesn't wash with me.

ling had no qualms throwing a 17 year Kirtys Mckenzie into the fold last season against Port Vale, why won't Knill do the same with Hutchings? I am not going to blame Cruise for our troubles because he isn't a centre back, and that's my point. Ling built his squad (2 per position) and said he would go with what he had, and only use a loan as a last resort, which he did bringing Aldred and Angus as cover.

Alarm bells should have been ringing when Downes was injured, then should have been the time to bring in a loan defender, instead he signed another attacker. Irrespective of how unfortunate we are to have both Downes and Kirtys absent through illness, Knill's approach has been far too cavalier and our squad is far too attacker heavy (and most of those don't get a game)

Please do not group me in with the Knill out brigade (though I would thoroughly respect and understand their viewpoint) you won't find me booing or dissenting at the management. The tone of my post is that I am just confused at what is happening. Read my previous posts, I have seen potential at what Knill is trying to achieve, I just don't think he is going about getting it the right way. But until I have heard the truth about budget cuts etc how can any of us form a balanced opinion?

bengull - not for one second would I place you with the idiot brigade - you same far more intelligent and I am sorry if my post indicated otherwise.

For me the facts are the third choice centre-back McKenzie (which Ling used) is unavailable through problems with him coping with his diabetes. Hutching is just a kid (he is only 17 and has not fully grown into a centre half's body shape as yet). To throw him now could destroy a player who is thought as of being the biggest prospect we have had since Lee Sharpe.

[Referee]

Hi referee, assuming you have the mental capacity to read further than the first paragraph of my post you will read that I said you deserved the 3 points and your 250 fans were a credit to the club, I can only assume therefore that you were not present.

Well done and all that but you won't get an easier 3 points all season. Play like you did in the first half hour and you may not get another 3 points all season.

Read it all bengull, just can't believe that as you are such a massive club you find it difficult to lose to a little club like York!
You are where you are because you're relatively shit (same reason we're there too) but sometimes you just need to accept being undone by a better team & not belittle them, it's part of football!

[Lloyder5]

I post with a sense of weariness with the expected vitriol that will be present on this board over the next few days. We started well, but paid dearly for not scoring when we were on top. When the goal didn't come and it was through lack of accuracy in the last third, I had a sense of foreboding. Harding had done well but I didn't think his departure was so significant. Mansell was pretty awful and on reflection he has only had 1 season as a decent central midfielder. The defence seemed ok throughout the game. However, you have to think that Downes or Pearce would have sorted the third and maybe the first. Did think O'Connor looked good. The second was dreadful, not a free kick, then a dreadful wall and terrible keeping (did he do any thing other than pick the ball out of the net). Up front Hawley worked hard. Azeez showed his potential, but why people thought he was a threat in the air I don't know, he barely won a header, just seemed to jump into the defender; Hawley won much more. Chappell did well at times although final quality should have been better and he often had tow defenders on him. Overall, Plainmoor lack passion on the pitch and the terraces. I am a rosetinter but I am worried,

[bengull]

I freely admit we were crap, I have no delusions of grandeur. In the second half you were full value for your victory and well done. Sadly, the table rarely lies and we should be giving teams like yourselves a better game than we did. Had you beaten us 3-2 in a pulsating thriller I would have been more inclined to apportion credit in your direction but playing poorly in the most part and taking advantage of our abject surrender leaves me far more likely to use your mob as an indicator at how poorly we performed. Best of luck for rest of the season. Leave your whistle at home.

[brucie]

Richinns- so what are you trying to say? - With Cruise and a rookie at the back it wasn't any wonder that we lost again. Not to mention Rice who it appears is morphing into the keeper we all knew he was last season (did someone say that one of their goals went through his hands and then hit him on the back of the head - says it all really)
Plain fact is though we have fared little better with our first choice defence earlier in the season, and indeed we have failed to score a goal yet again.
Face facts - we are hopeless.

[hector]

Now this is a balanced and fair post. Someone who has a grip on reality. We need more of you on the Plainmoor terraces and less of the Hector's of this world.

Because, of course, what we should be doing is sticking our heads in the sand and pretending everything is ok. Some fans are so blinded by their 'love' of TUFC that they cannot accept we are shit. Instead it is all bad luck, it's only been ten games, give them time, when anyone with half a brain can see what lies ahead of us.

You stick you head in the sand...or the oven for all I care, and pretend it is just because of injuries etc but we have a poor team, managed by an even poorer manager.

Pretend, if you like, that we are only a few wins away from the play offs, ignoring the fact we have a 20% win record and at this rate will have 18 pts from 60.

Torquay United are shockingly poor. We are managed by a manager who has an appalling managerial record and only has the job because the half-wits amongst the fanbase were clamouring for his appointment. Ignore this if you like and let the whole sorry situation perpetuate and deteriorate.

Some may suggest it is too soon to change the manager. I would agree, if it was a half decent manager, that ten games is too early. But when you examine the disaster that was Alan Knill's reign at Rotherham and Scunthorpe and now here, there is very little to suggest reasons to be optimistic.

[ferrarilover]

If we're such a poor team, changing the manager won't make any difference.
If you really think the Board make appointments based on what they read on the Internet (as if they actually read this rubbish) then you need to up your medication.
If we sack Knill, we have to pay him off, as well as Brassy. I don't know what they earn between them, but I'll bet it's not less than £120,000. Please tell me where you keep your money tree, because Torquay's is dead, so we haven't got that sort of cash knocking about.
If we let Knill go, who do you suggest we appoint? We are 4th bottom of the FL, the squad is riddled with injury, we have a budget of precisely 40p to rectify this problem and we'll have sacked two managers in 4 months. I imagine the list of candidates would stretch no further than Messrs Bean and Blobby.
No one is sticking their head in the sand, just while some are running about screaming about how shit we are as if the situation is irretrievable, others are offering a more balanced, fair and accurate view of our strengths and weaknesses.
No one is suggesting we were any good today, but some can see that there are positives in the squad and the club generally and that what we really need is practical support to help the club polish the rough diamonds to drag itself out of the mire.

For what it's worth (basically nothing, but better than nowt) Gilbert's re-appearance today and for all future dates is down, almost entirely, to me. I don't like mentioning it, and I certainly wasn't going to, but it's the truth. I saw that we had a problem (quiet spell 1450-1500) and I did what I could about it (suggested Gilbert fill the gap with silliness). Did it achieve anything? Unlikely, but it was a damn sight more help than whinging on the internet about wanting the manager sacked.

Matt.

[nickbrod]

Judge the team after 10 games? This is what we were told. So today was judgment day.
I thought the first half showed we are an attacking team but after York scored their first goal we fell apart in the second half. Why?
After the first home game against Wimbledon I could see that neither Hawley nor Ball are natural goalscorers. To date Hawley has 1 and Ball 2. Hawley really should have buried his chance before York's first.
Benyon, who is a goalscorer gets 10 minutes at most although today longer but his performance shows he's not match fit so it's hardly surprising he's off the pace. Why then was he signed? Towards the end of last season we were told that Yeoman was our best goalscorer but now he's on a three month loan at Bideford.
It looks to me that both Hawley and Ball were 10th and 20th choices respectively to be signed. Hawley's two second half misses were criminal. Ball should return to Derby.
Also after the first game it was perfectively obvious that we have no creative midfield. Both Mansell and Harding can break up play but rarely open defensives. We're not getting the best out of Bodin whilst Cameron's performance was worse than useless; in my opinion Thompson would have done better but of course he's on loan at Worcester.
Why too are our set pieces so awful? Corners seem a waste of time whilst free kicks suggest these are not practised in training.
Clearly Cruise is not a centre-half whilst Nico is well past his sell-by date. To be fair I thought O'Connor shows promise (he had a good first half but needed a Downes type player to help him) and Azeez looks promising if given the right service.
Hopefully scare stories today about Pearce with some heart defect are unfounded but we clearly need some experience at the back to get us through October otherwise the Skrill Premier beckons.
These are challenging days but sadly not new. September yielded few points so an unexpected win at Wycombe next week is a must!

[ferrarilover]

I think it would be prudent for us to act as though we are to be without Pearce for the foreseeable future. It may help avoid disappointment.
Can we also stop mentioning that Cruise isn't a centre half? We all know, he never said he was, he never pretended to be, he's been given a job for which he's neither qualified not experienced and he's doing as well as could be expected.
Judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree and it would live its whole life believing it was stupid.

Matt.

[wodger of awabia]

Because, of course, what we should be doing is sticking our heads in the sand and pretending everything is ok. Some fans are so blinded by their 'love' of TUFC that they cannot accept we are sh*t. Instead it is all bad luck, it's only been ten games, give them time, when anyone with half a brain can see what lies ahead of us.

You stick you head in the sand...or the oven for all I care, and pretend it is just because of injuries etc but we have a poor team, managed by an even poorer manager.

Pretend, if you like, that we are only a few wins away from the play offs, ignoring the fact we have a 20% win record and at this rate will have 18 pts from 60.

Torquay United are shockingly poor. We are managed by a manager who has an appalling managerial record and only has the job because the half-wits amongst the fanbase were clamouring for his appointment. Ignore this if you like and let the whole sorry situation perpetuate and deteriorate.

Some may suggest it is too soon to change the manager. I would agree, if it was a half decent manager, that ten games is too early. But when you examine the disaster that was Alan Knill's reign at Rotherham and scunthorpe and now here, there is very little to suggest reasons to be optimistic.

Time to realise that we are well on our way to the Conference with this clown in charge, & the poor team he has signed,

[ferrarilover]

Again, loadsa criticism and bugger all of it constructive. From now on, a rule, only criticism with a valid and realistic solution will be accepted.

Matt.

[Alpine Joe]

Ferrarilover

Can we also stop mentioning that Cruise isn't a centre half? We all know, he never said he was, he never pretended to be, he's been given a job for which he's neither qualified not experienced

Because Cruise confidently stated in the last home programme (v Cheltenham) that "I do know I can play the position", when questioned about playing as one of the two centre-halves, and also "I feel comfortable anywhere across the back four", I can't see a lot of harm in fans giving their opinion as to whether they agree with him or not. Cruise was a centre half in his youth, and obviously a very good one to be selected in that position for England at Under-16 level.

The fact that he said he would "relish" the chance to play as a centre half was also a good sign, although he was obviously foreseeing at the time that he'd have an experienced teammate alongside him, which just at present is sadly not the case.

[hector]

Again, loadsa criticism and bugger all of it constructive. From now on, a rule, only criticism with a valid and realistic solution will be accepted.

Matt.

And who are you to determine what is posted and isn't.

So, essentially because we can't pay off Knill we are stuck with him. And if the board went with Knill because they felt he was the best man for the job, then more fool them for failing to undergo a thorough recruitment process.

Sticking with Knill increases our chances of relegation. As for alternatives? Are we saying there was no one else available at all, anywhere, in the summer?

So why wouldn't there be now?

[tomogull]

Well, the tenth game when all was supposed to gel but the only gel we've seen all season is on Harding's hair. Today's game was almost a re-run of the Hartlepool game (cept York scored three and 'Pool didn't score). We played well for 20 minutes - good passing and good tempo - and then we got slower and slower and more and more predictable as we did against Hartlepool. For all our so-called attacking play, we didn't trouble their keeper once in the first half and I can only remember two shots on target in the second half - a good long range effort from Damon Lathrope which the keeper tipped away for a corner and a close range shot by Hawley which was well saved. Hawley was well shackled by his marker as he has been in all five home games and although Azeez looked dangerous, he didn't achieve much.

At 2 - 0 down, it was obvious to everyone in the ground that the system (whatever the system was) was not working and it needed a change. So what happened? Bodin was replaced ..... with another winger, Cameron. Nothing constructive was coming through midfield. Why not bring on Craig? What was there to lose? I don't know if Craig is the answer but give the lad a chance. If he doesn't play, how will we. or Knill for that matter, know what he can do? Martin Rice has gained us a few points and saved us from a couple of drubbings this season, but it has to be said that he was at fault for the second and third goals today.

Positives from today? Well I'll try ..... apart from Rice's second half nightmare, I thought the defence did reasonably well. I liked the look of Anthony O'Connor - he looked assured and was marshalling the defence as well as he could. Cruise had a solid game. Obviously, they're not Downes and Pearce but they couldn't be blamed for today's fiasco. Nicholson was fired up as if he had something to prove, and he did. He had a pretty good game. Bodin and Chappell played okay, but neither created much.

So what does Knill and Brass have to do? The first thing is to try to instil some team spirit into this bunch of players because it is very apparent by the body language that this is missing.

Finally, I'm alarmed to hear that Pearce's illness could keep him out longer than expected because I've also been told that Downes' injury could keep him out for several weeks. Two central defenders who have probably been our best players so far. Very worrying.