yellowsmiffy wrote:Now that I've calmed down (a bit) after yesterday's aberration - should probably say that Chris Hargreaves will always be a club hero/legend for me.
I stand by any of my criticisms of him as a manager, but I don't want him to "f*ck off" out of our club.... That was disrespectful of me to say that, no matter how much of a mess he has helped get us into. Without him and his goal at Wembley against Cambridge, perhaps we might be exactly where we are now, but without the few decent seasons in League 2 and the derby wins etc in between or maybe even worse off.
He was a fantastic player, who genuinely gave absolutely everything. I don't doubt that he's given this job his absolute all, just as he did as a player, but unfortunately you have the have certain qualities to be a decent manager which he appears to be severely lacking.
Not many players I would have wanted to succeed more, but it sadly just hasn't happened.
It is unlikely that CH would resign. Why should he? I read criticism that he wouldn't resign because he is too worried about his 'pay-off', as if he is greedy for wanting to safeguard his livelihood. If he resigned and therefore was unable to gain compensation, then he is placing his family in jeopardy.
I had a crappy day at work today and drove home thinking I would rather not go in tomorrow. I probably won't sleep especially well but in to work I will have to go because I have a mortgage to pay and kids to provide for, even though there are days when I really do not like my job and I wish that I did something a little simpler and easier, even though it wouldn't pay as much.
I suspect that feeling is magnified hundredfold for CH presently. I bet he absolutely hates being manager at the moment, with fans against him, perhaps players as well, plus some directors. The utter paranoia that probably induces and stress cannot be pleasant and it takes a really thick skin to exist through that. I expect not only CH is suffering but his wife and his family. He probably cannot read his kids a story without his mind drifting and churning and maybe the masochistic side of him, finds himself reading through the forums and it cannot be easy when no doubt he has lost belief in himself. Being a football manager is such a public position, that there is sheer humiliation, no doubt, when it all goes so publicly wrong.
I feel sorry for him really but I just do not see a way out of it.
hector wrote:It is unlikely that CH would resign. Why should he? I read criticism that he wouldn't resign because he is too worried about his 'pay-off', as if he is greedy for wanting to safeguard his livelihood. If he resigned and therefore was unable to gain compensation, then he is placing his family in jeopardy.
I had a crappy day at work today and drove home thinking I would rather not go in tomorrow. I probably won't sleep especially well but in to work I will have to go because I have a mortgage to pay and kids to provide for, even though there are days when I really do not like my job and I wish that I did something a little simpler and easier, even though it wouldn't pay as much.
I suspect that feeling is magnified hundredfold for CH presently. I bet he absolutely hates being manager at the moment, with fans against him, perhaps players as well, plus some directors. The utter paranoia that probably induces and stress cannot be pleasant and it takes a really thick skin to exist through that. I expect not only CH is suffering but his wife and his family. He probably cannot read his kids a story without his mind drifting and churning and maybe the masochistic side of him, finds himself reading through the forums and it cannot be easy when no doubt he has lost belief in himself. Being a football manager is such a public position, that there is sheer humiliation, no doubt, when it all goes so publicly wrong.
I feel sorry for him really but I just do not see a way out of it.
You seriously think Hargreaves is on £2,000 a week? Can't you see how resigning with no payoff might alter his family's financial security even slightly? This isn't the Premier League where people have millions to fall back on.
hector wrote:It is unlikely that CH would resign. Why should he? I read criticism that he wouldn't resign because he is too worried about his 'pay-off', as if he is greedy for wanting to safeguard his livelihood. If he resigned and therefore was unable to gain compensation, then he is placing his family in jeopardy.
I had a crappy day at work today and drove home thinking I would rather not go in tomorrow. I probably won't sleep especially well but in to work I will have to go because I have a mortgage to pay and kids to provide for, even though there are days when I really do not like my job and I wish that I did something a little simpler and easier, even though it wouldn't pay as much.
I suspect that feeling is magnified hundredfold for CH presently. I bet he absolutely hates being manager at the moment, with fans against him, perhaps players as well, plus some directors. The utter paranoia that probably induces and stress cannot be pleasant and it takes a really thick skin to exist through that. I expect not only CH is suffering but his wife and his family. He probably cannot read his kids a story without his mind drifting and churning and maybe the masochistic side of him, finds himself reading through the forums and it cannot be easy when no doubt he has lost belief in himself. Being a football manager is such a public position, that there is sheer humiliation, no doubt, when it all goes so publicly wrong.
I feel sorry for him really but I just do not see a way out of it.
Good post, Hector. In these depressing times at Plainmoor, we overlook the effects they could be having on Hargreaves and his family. I bet he had an awful drive back home last night. On the other hand, he will be well aware of the pitfalls facing him as a football manager in what most surely be the most insecure jobs of all. He will have seen countless managers axed in his time in football. Take Gus Poyet - a hero at Brighton but then somehow couldn't do the same at Sunderland. In any job, except if you're an MP in a safe seat, you know what happens if you're messing up at work - you're fired. But I think we should stick with him for at least the rest of the season to see if he can salvage some respectability from the mess he has got us into. His target now should be a top half of the table finish. After taking one point from Telford, Chester, Nuneaton and Braintree, that's going to be a tough ask.
You are right there is a stress to the job of football manager yes, and yes its a tough one.
But CH is not a child, he knew very well what he was getting into, and what pressures might fall on his family. He should have considered all that before he accepted the job. So although I have some sympathy on a human level I don't on a professional level.
The problem with football management it is a "public" results business. Most of our jobs are as well, mine is a results business (not public), my job is not being monitored by 2000 people, only about 3 for me.
I really do hope we stop paying stupid wages and giving rolling contracts. We have been here before with this argument and some of you think if we wont get quality if we don't give contracts like this. I disagree, look at the record, we have paid of the last 2 managers and more than likely will have to do the same again. A club like Torquay cant keep on doing that! If you advertised the job at 50k with a normal contract (like most of us have) with a 3 month payout if you get sacked. You will get a host of people applying. AND do you really think some of these will be any worse than what we have had, I don't!
Thinking about it, It was muted that CH was in the running for a job at Northampton. Good luck to them if they were willing to pay 100k for a 2nd in charge, youth coach or whatever job it was.
Good point Neal. Most of us the real world have some form of performance targets built in nowadays, if not met its goodbye. Why can't our managers have that? E.g. Top half finish etc etc.
No doubt I will get slaughtered on here for merely suggesting it.......
I, like everyone else am feeling delighted with the win today, I do not want to seem as if I'm trying to detract or taking anything away from the win, but come on, as said in the match thread, Kidderminster were one of the few teams in worse form that us, they hadn't scored in 601 minutes prior to this game, their players apparently haven't been paid for a few weeks now. If Chris Hargreaves couldn't get it right today, he never would, ever.
Win at Woking this Tuesday, now that would be a stand up take notice type of result, wouldn't it.
There really is some rubbish posted on here. Firstly I very much doubt that the posters who quote £100K per year have the first idea what CH actually earns but it almost certainly is nowhere near that. Secondly the nonsense about a rolling contract is just incorrect. He sighed a two and half year contract that runs out June 16. Lastly, the absolutely ludicrous idea that football managers could have a contract the same as us in the rest of the working world is laughable. Firstly employyment law does not just allow for people to be sacked on a whim and secondly, notice periods work both ways. Had he been a rip roaring success would you really be happy for him to hand in his 3 months notice and leave with us getting next to no compensation? Buckle got slaughtered for leaving us but the compensation we recieved was pretty welcome as I remember it. Football does not work the same as other jobs but it's much more fun to post inaccuracies than try to understand that I guess.
eddyh wrote:There really is some rubbish posted on here. Firstly I very much doubt that the posters who quote £100K per year have the first idea what CH actually earns but it almost certainly is nowhere near that. Secondly the nonsense about a rolling contract is just incorrect. He sighed a two and half year contract that runs out June 16. Lastly, the absolutely ludicrous idea that football managers could have a contract the same as us in the rest of the working world is laughable. Firstly employyment law does not just allow for people to be sacked on a whim and secondly, notice periods work both ways. Had he been a rip roaring success would you really be happy for him to hand in his 3 months notice and leave with us getting next to no compensation? Buckle got slaughtered for leaving us but the compensation we recieved was pretty welcome as I remember it. Football does not work the same as other jobs but it's much more fun to post inaccuracies than try to understand that I guess.
No he didn't. He left our best striker, who scored both our goals, On the bench. Hargreaves got lucky - I've seen nothing from Campbell to suggest he can put in a performance anywhere near the level of Bowman's today.
Kit_robin wrote:
No he didn't. He left our best striker, who scored both our goals, On the bench. Hargreaves got lucky - I've seen nothing from Campbell to suggest he can put in a performance anywhere near the level of Bowman's today.
Yet another example of fans never being prepared to give any credit. I suspect you were one of the many who were happy to see Bowman dropped after a recent dip in form (to put it mildly). Maybe dropping him to bench was exactly what he needed to turn things around. We will never know but the churlish sniping at CH after an improved performance just looks petty in my view
