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Getting more worried by the game.

Losing, like winning is a habit, and this group of players have got used to losing - it seems we no longer have the fight to overcome our defensive frailties.

The next two games, I feel, are season-defining. Lose them and we are firmly in a relegation scrap and can't see we could turn it round

It doesn't quite feel like the relegation season because we don't have the same problems behind the scenes but we still have fewer points at the same stage this season than then. I truly fear for our league safety.

tufcbrett wrote:Im just glad there are some teams below us in the league who are playing just as bad if not worse for the moment. This will turn around, but two home games next week. If we fail to win any of them then i feel Ling should go. Saying that two draws wouldnt be enough.

I agree that some of us, including myself said 1 game ago this isnt our worst run ever. But its not like were losing out by the odd goal 1-0 or 2-1. Were getting stuffed and i dont know much much more we can take. A few wins next week would change everything but are we going to win them?

My birthday is next tuesday Lingy, win for me so you dont ruin my birthday haha

In the game at Bradford which i said at the time it was one of the worst performances i have seen from a torquay side, we didn't get stuffed but we looked like relegation fodder even against a team who played 3/4 of the game with 10 men and who themselves are low on confidence . We didn't even have any shots of note! It was glaringly obvious that we just didn't have a clue what we were doing and had we been playing a team near the top of the league who had 10 men for 3/4 of the game we would have been looking at a 2 or 3 nil defeat and we had the extra man!! Performances and results have got worse since. Ling HAS been found out and confidence and ideas have now gone. The honeymoon period is well and truly over and although i recommend we support Ling and the players, if us the fans aren't seeing any efforts or improvements within the next month then we need a change. We must all remember that Ling wasn't even on the radar when we were interviewing candidates so his appointment was met with a certain amount of shock AND worries about his credentials. I think because of that we have been giving him the benefit of the doubt thus far but i went to Shrewsbury and Bradford and saw what unfolded in front of my eyes and it was inexcusable. We ship goals for fun and our strikers are s**t. If it weren't for Manses goals and Nico then we would be below Plymouth probably. Bodin is good and has scored a couple of individual efforts (due to a lack of quality around him he has to do things himself). Dear God we are just bloody awful at the moment and we going to get worse. We are in serious trouble.

We have a worse team than when Roberts was here

austrianandygull wrote: In the game at Bradford which i said at the time it was one of the worst performances i have seen from a torquay side, we didn't get stuffed but we looked like relegation fodder even against a team who played 3/4 of the game with 10 men and who themselves are low on confidence . We didn't even have any shots of note! It was glaringly obvious that we just didn't have a clue what we were doing and had we been playing a team near the top of the league who had 10 men for 3/4 of the game we would have been looking at a 2 or 3 nil defeat and we had the extra man!! Performances and results have got worse since. Ling HAS been found out and confidence and ideas have now gone. The honeymoon period is well and truly over and although i recommend we support Ling and the players, if us the fans aren't seeing any efforts or improvements within the next month then we need a change. We must all remember that Ling wasn't even on the radar when we were interviewing candidates so his appointment was met with a certain amount of shock AND worries about his credentials. I think because of that we have been giving him the benefit of the doubt thus far but i went to Shrewsbury and Bradford and saw what unfolded in front of my eyes and it was inexcusable. We ship goals for fun and our strikers are s**t. If it weren't for Manses goals and Nico then we would be below Plymouth probably. Bodin is good and has scored a couple of individual efforts (due to a lack of quality around him he has to do things himself). Dear God we are just bloody awful at the moment and we going to get worse. We are in serious trouble.

Sorry disagree, the change must happen NOW, another month will leave us a mountain to climb.

Ling is not good enough, ow much proof of that do we need.

I really cant see anything changing. Whether or not sacking Ling will solve anything I don't know, but we must act NOW! A couple more thrashings and I really cant see us surviving

Plain fact is that the players we have are not up to it. Our defence is a shambles. O'Kane has gone missing. Danny Stevens is our best winger and Atieno and Mcphee look like our staring two up front on Tuesday.
Ling seems to be blaming Ellis on the radio but surely Ling could play him and Robbo and drop Saah on Tuesday - it could surely make the defence any worse. i am even thinking we should put Mansell back at right back.
Kee has now scored four in six for Burton - even he is in a different class than what we now have up front.
Morris/Howe/Atieno/Saah/Mcphee/Rice - half a dozen crap signings to go with Halpin/Stevens/Rowe-Turner/Macklin - is it any wonder taht we are destined for bottom place.
We are just not going to turn this around with the personnel we have got. i can seldom remeber such a terrible list of players than those we have at the moment.

tufcbrett wrote: two home games next week. If we fail to win any of them then i feel Ling should go. Saying that two draws wouldnt be enough.

Exactly my thoughts, Brett. 4 points needed from these - anything less and it's not good enough IMO. We've taken 4 points from a possible 24, which is awful.

Brett, why do you think Ling should go? It's not like he has the money to go out and buy decent players that could make a real difference is it? He took the job on knowing it would be tough, once the proposed budget was known Buckle couldn't get out of the door quick enough and it's not like we were inundated with suitable applicants to take over from him. Ling was and still is the best man for the job, I'd have thought that you of all people would resist saying something that fickle. Out of interest, who do you think could take over and do a better job? Any new manager coming in would have to raise money to be able to spend any, what saleable assets besides O'Kane do we have?

I'm amazed the Board are getting away with this and all the flak is being aimed at Ling. a proven manager at this level and one that took a similarly sized club to us up to League One and kept them there. People need to be more realistic and stop blaming a manager who has his hands tied. Ellis came in today and we still shipped 4 goals, Jeff who was there rated Saah in his top five players yet still Saah gets stick and Ling for picking him. If we could have afforded to keep Branston or even get him back on loan we would have, the truth is that we don't. The Board are still making the same cock-ups, who in their right minds would have planned for a redevelopment that starts a third of the way through the season when it could have been started at the end of one and arrangements made to play a few more away games until completed. The Football league knew we weren't ready and you can bet your last pound that this is why permission wasn't granted to do so.

The Board are the ones that need to make changes, Simon Baker couldn't steer a dinghy let alone a football club. It's time he stood down and let someone else start pushing the club in the right direction. Each time we have a big game it's the same old incompetence in handling ticketing issues, the communications issues are still apparent and for all the good work done by the club as a whole we're still light years behind other clubs. I understand the need to tighten the pursestrings, I support Martin Ling in what he's trying to do but it's time the Chairman started to question his own role. There are better candidates in the Boardroom than him and they're being held back from doing what needs doing.

I am concerned that I called it spot on. Robertson (our best centre back by miles) would play right back to keep Saah in the side.

Saah and Ellis, i'm just amazed we kept it down to 4.

royalgull wrote:I am concerned that I called it spot on. Robertson (our best centre back by miles) would play right back to keep Saah in the side.

Saah and Ellis, i'm just amazed we kept it down to 4.

I beat you to it

Southampton Gull wrote:Obviously designed to placate him, maybe Robbo to right-back?

Great minds mate. It was all a bit obvious, i can't remember which thread i put it on. Either the Ellis transfer one or one of the Ling ones where I said it wouldn't surprise me if that was the case.

in times of need you put down your absolute starters, then the rest have to fit in around them. Not making your better players fit in around someone else who isn't as good. Moving Robbo out of the centre was total suicide.

royalgull wrote:Moving Robbo out of the centre was total suicide.

I agree Royal, IMO the back 4 should be Oastler,Robbo,Ellis,Nico for sure!

It's probably who i'd select Tuesday, the only issue for me is I'd be tempted to give Leadbitter a start. Only one way to find out if this lad is good enough is to play him everyone else has had a go, he's actually come to us with a bit of pedigree so now he's had a couple of weeks to get fit lets give him a go.

Ellis or Saah is literally a coin toss but Robbo shouldn't be moving for either one of them. He's miles better than the pair of them.

With respect Dave, you say Ling has got his hands tied and i appreciate that. I also appreciate that we have a thin squad and a non-existent playing budget; however, it is the clueless style of play and lack of desire to go and take the game to the opposition which he IS at fault for. You can have the worst players in the world but if you drill them well, put them in a positive attacking mindset with a never give up work ethic then results are possible and i bet the team would pick up more points than we will being defensive and frightened to go forward. This fear of going forward is becoming a common feature in many away games especially and it almost becomes a weight lifted off the players shoulders when they fall behind because they at least have an excuse to give up and concede more. That option seems easier than digging in and taking the game to the opponents at the moment and the only person responsible for not being able to change the players attitude is Ling. He has got to make the most of what he has at his disposal and he is not doing this. We know we were never going to push for the play-offs (although some deluded fans posted on here before the season started saying we were) but we just want the players to at least try and go out there with the intention of winning football matches. That is not happening either and the Buck stops at Ling. I didn't expect to beat Southend today nor Shrewsbury a few weeks ago nor even Bradford but i did expect the players to put in a shift and try and be positive from the off. That has not happened and the man responsible is Ling. I could take defeat in all of those matches if we had given it a real go and just come up short by being beaten by the better side but we didn't offer anything. Nothing. There is nothing on the pitch, no leadership, no plan, no movement, no willingness to throw men forward at every opportunity, no thrust, no energy and no desire. To rectify all these issues is gonna take some doing and i honestly believe that Ling will lose us more points than we will gain by being negative therefore we could be looking at the trapdoor come May. Please Martin, just attack and see what happens.

The thing is, Andy, judging by his comments after most games it would appear that the players aren't following his instructions. I'm not for one moment suggesting Ling is faultless, it's just that I don't lay the blame entirely at his feet.