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Whats the excuse for Bradford, Shrewsbury and Southend this season then? Or Wycombe, Oxford or Bury last season (good performances without staying overnight)?

Again, FJ, total and complete (probably deliberate) failure to appreciate the point I am making. Go back, read what I have written and work it out for yourself. If you can't do this, ask your nurse to get you a crayon and play with your colouring book instead :~D

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote:So, having shown your comparison to be invalid, we move on to the actual point of my post, which was to demonstrate that, despite the cost (which I appreçiate is high) we MUST stay overnight for matches, because when we don't, we always play in the awful, disjointed, influid manner we showed last night.

Would you be meaning the above post?

If so, what bit of

Whats the excuse for Bradford, Shrewsbury and Southend this season then

or

Wycombe, Oxford or Bury last season (good performances without staying overnight)?

do you have a problem understanding?

They are quite clearly understandable examples of a) not playing well when we stayed overnight & b) playing well when we travelled on the day, both of which clearly show your assertion to be total hoop (no change there then)

ferrarilover wrote: And there, right there, demonstrates perfectly your absolute and total failure to understand the point I am making, and have made very clearly, twice, if not three times now.

Matt.

I understand your point entirely and I've understood your point from the very outset. What I'm trying to do is explain that sometimes, what is best for a business is not possible. Hopefully in the process you will learn what this thing called "MONEY" is all about. You seem to be completely oblivious to real life throughout this debate and intend to argue solely based on ideals (and ideals which aren't even proven to be correct as no one has bothered to actually document them). Once you learn a couple things called "logic" and "reason" then come back and tell us about the pretentious, ill-informed and opinionated drivel that is regularly spouted by you on this forum.

Well said Cambgull.
Matt stop being so obnoxious and TRY to understand something called MONEY of which we have little. How long before you understand that point ? I have said that in a perfect world when their is cash splashing around yes wonderful but please deal with reality.

Staying overnight does not guarantee a favourable result. So we were garbage at PV but still got a point !!! Missing Eunan who may have made a difference but he may not have. Who knows pure conjecture ...a bit like your argument actually !!

Don't want to get involved too much in this on-going argument, but for the record, away games when the club stay in hotels, cost between £2.5k and £2.7k on average

MidDevon wrote:Don't want to get involved too much in this on-going argument, but for the record, away games when the club stay in hotels, cost between £2.5k and £2.7k on average

I don't get how it would be that much MidDevon, again like you i don't want to get involved really in the argument; however, if your sum is based on one game i would be calling for the head of someone at the club who parts with this money. If the players stay in a travelodge type hotel (which are very comfortable most of the time) you can get two players in one room for say £50. So 16 players plus management, coach driver etc and you would be looking at well under a grand. Again i don't know what routine the club has or requirements for their away stays but if you ain't got much money then you have to cut your cloth.

In my time of being involved in football, staying over night or travelling the same day doesnt make no difference. Some people prefer to stay at home the night before to see there family and some would rather travel the night before so they can relax on the day.

A pro footballer should be able to play the best they can either way. They train every day to prepare for a match. If im honest i dont think this is an issue for a result.

tufcbrett wrote:In my time of being involved in football, staying over night or travelling the same day doesnt make no difference. Some people prefer to stay at home the night before to see there family and some would rather travel the night before so they can relax on the day.

A pro footballer should be able to play the best they can either way. They train every day to prepare for a match. If im honest i dont think this is an issue for a result.

Of course it makes a difference. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Fergie Wenger and Mancini have been getting it wrong?

Players need to be fresh to perform at their best and getting off a coach after several hours travelling isn't conducive to a peak performance.
The argument is whether we can afford it, which we can't, but there's no doubting that it's preferable to travel at least the day prior to playing.

Southampton Gull wrote:
Of course it makes a difference. Are you seriously trying to tell me that Fergie Wenger and Mancini have been getting it wrong?

Players need to be fresh to perform at their best and getting off a coach after several hours travelling isn't conducive to a peak performance.
The argument is whether we can afford it, which we can't, but there's no doubting that it's preferable to travel at least the day prior to playing.

Spot on.

I agree that we need to be staying overnight on longer trips but we just cannot afford to be regularly staying overnight. I don't think you'll find many teams that can afford to stay overnight for every game from League 1 down.

EDIT: Can I just add it's all gone a bit quiet from Volvofancier...

austrianandygull wrote: I don't get how it would be that much MidDevon, again like you i don't want to get involved really in the argument; however, if your sum is based on one game i would be calling for the head of someone at the club who parts with this money. If the players stay in a travelodge type hotel (which are very comfortable most of the time) you can get two players in one room for say £50. So 16 players plus management, coach driver etc and you would be looking at well under a grand. Again i don't know what routine the club has or requirements for their away stays but if you ain't got much money then you have to cut your cloth.

This was based on what I have been told by directors. Take Morecambe for example, the team stay at the Holiday Inn just outside the town. Having stayed away for 4 nights a week for 15 years (including that very hotel) until a few years ago I can tell you it really is not that posh, but that equates to around £100 a person, which includes meals. I dount you would get that deal much cheaper anywhere else

I have a life outside of this forum, hence the 'quietness'. The very point of my post was not whether we can afford it. I said right from the outset that I appreciate we aren't Manchester City, but this is a reasonable expense. As for logic and reason, it costs money to run football clubs. It seems to me that often, when we don't stay overnight, we aren't very good. Yes, we'll done FJ, you've found some examples here this isn't the case, tell your nurse to get you a chocolate biscuit and a gold star, but that is hardly the point. There are a number of occasions which come to mind where we have played badly having not stayed overnight and Port Vale was one of them.
And again, as for all this 'business accumen' stuff, up until as recently as a fortnight ago, we were playing this match at 1500 on a saturday, so we sure as hell were going to spend money on an overnight stay, so to have stuck with that plan would not have been an extra expense. The club woul have already budgeted for that am the money already allocated, so again, I'd suggest that logic and reason have prevailed here too.

Once again, I understand that we are poor and have little in the way of spare funds, but to suggest that an overnight stay for an away match is 'throwing money around' just doesn't hold water. If I was suggesting solid gold taps for the men's room on the Popside, or new Mercedes for all the playing staff, then fair enough, but a hotel to save an 8 hour coach journey is hardly frivolous, as was shown by the performance at Port Vale, among others.

No, an overnight stay doesn't GUARANTEE a favorable result, at no stage have I suggested that it does, but it sure helps.

I look forward to being told, once again, that we haven't got any money and that I'm living in cloud cuckoo land, because, let's face it, if you didn't understand the first hundred thousand times I explained this to you all, you're not going to get it this time...

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote:I have a life outside of this forum, hence the 'quietness'. The very point of my post was not whether we can afford it. I said right from the outset that I appreciate we aren't Manchester City, but this is a reasonable expense. As for logic and reason, it costs money to run football clubs. It seems to me that often, when we don't stay overnight, we aren't very good. Yes, we'll done FJ, you've found some examples here this isn't the case, tell your nurse to get you a chocolate biscuit and a gold star, but that is hardly the point. There are a number of occasions which come to mind where we have played badly having not stayed overnight and Port Vale was one of them.
And again, as for all this 'business accumen' stuff, up until as recently as a fortnight ago, we were playing this match at 1500 on a saturday, so we sure as hell were going to spend money on an overnight stay, so to have stuck with that plan would not have been an extra expense. The club woul have already budgeted for that am the money already allocated, so again, I'd suggest that logic and reason have prevailed here too.

Once again, I understand that we are poor and have little in the way of spare funds, but to suggest that an overnight stay for an away match is 'throwing money around' just doesn't hold water. If I was suggesting solid gold taps for the men's room on the Popside, or new Mercedes for all the playing staff, then fair enough, but a hotel to save an 8 hour coach journey is hardly frivolous, as was shown by the performance at Port Vale, among others.

No, an overnight stay doesn't GUARANTEE a favorable result, at no stage have I suggested that it does, but it sure helps.

I look forward to being told, once again, that we haven't got any money and that I'm living in cloud cuckoo land, because, let's face it, if you didn't understand the first hundred thousand times I explained this to you all, you're not going to get it this time...

Matt.

Well that was certainly a much different approach to a post than your usual arrogant rubbish you come out with, finally you're starting to make a genuine point other than some child's "I WANT THIS, WHY HAVEN'T I GOT IT YET" style to your previous posts.

As said, I also agree that we SHOULD be staying overnight for pretty much every away game over an hour or 2's drive. Unfortunately, there isn't a realistic chance of us being able to do that while we're averaging 2,500 each week, 1 stand down and making ever increasing losses. Maybe in a few years when there aren't any other big expenses due.

As an aside, I'd quite like to see a plan made for the next few years, it doesn't have to be like Argyle's Championship in 5 years plan but I'd quite like to see us moving forward and a plan to get more people into Plainmoor on a regular basis, allowing us to do things like staying overnight.

ferrarilover wrote:I have a life outside of this forum, hence the 'quietness'. The very point of my post was not whether we can afford it. I said right from the outset that I appreciate we aren't Manchester City, but this is a reasonable expense. As for logic and reason, it costs money to run football clubs. It seems to me that often, when we don't stay overnight, we aren't very good. Yes, we'll done FJ, you've found some examples here this isn't the case, tell your nurse to get you a chocolate biscuit and a gold star, but that is hardly the point. There are a number of occasions which come to mind where we have played badly having not stayed overnight and Port Vale was one of them.

Hardly the point? The point you're trying to make is the opposite of what FJ has said, so does that make your point a good one? Not really.

Staying overnight makes a difference, of course it does, but I don't think it has as big an effect as you're trying to make out, Matt.

3 of our best away performances (Oxford, Wycombe and Bury) came from NOT staying overnight.

Since I made exactly the same points in my last message as I have done all along, I'm going to suggest its adiffeence in perspective than delivery.

Glad you agree though, I always had faith you'd see sense eventually...

Matt.