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Paolos meatballs wrote:How can you claim to not to be struggling to get out of the league when you have failed to get out of the league? It's black and white....... no gray area.

If you think 'nearly' getting promoted is a good season for you, then so be it.

To point one, you seem to missed a fundamental issue, namely that all teams have different levels of expectations. If Braintree spend the next 10 years in the Conference, they'll consider that a fantastic achievement. If Luton do, then they will have gone through about 15 managers in the time. The fact that one spends on a totally different level to the other is fairly important. Hayes and Yeading are in their second season in the Conference, struggling to get out of the league in your opinion too no doubt?

To point two, Torquay reaching the play-offs is a good season for us, yes. Perhaps for your next trick you can tell us all where bears defecate.

Our main transfer target is your 7th choice striker. We're trialing players from the Welsh 3rd Division, you're slapping 6 figure bids in left, right and centre. The fact we're able to compete with you at all, is because you waste (sorry, invest) so much money needlessly. Think it through.

I missed nothing, you lot did from the start.

You say that you don't need to spend to get out of the league. You could rephrase that to you don't need to spend if you are happy to knock about for a few seasons, getting there or there abouts, until your season eventually arrives. We are not happy to do that. Promotion is a minimum, failing to win a playoff final would be considered a failure.

YOUR fans say you don't need money to get our of the league even though you have failed to do so yourself. You might be happy to look upon failed playoff campaign as successful, we most certainly will not.

Probably why you've been in administration twice in recent years and fought off two winding up orders. All to wind up in exactly the same place as us. Personally I'd prefer us to build a side over 3 or 4 years, watch them develop and build a spirit and understanding together and at the end of it win promotion, than over-spend and build up debts just to buy a promotion at the first attempt.

No club has a god given right to get promoted. You earn it over the course of the season with the points you pick up.

Gulliball wrote:Probably why you've been in administration twice in recent years and fought off two winding up orders. All to wind up in exactly the same place as us. Personally I'd prefer us to build a side over 3 or 4 years, watch them develop and build a spirit and understanding together and at the end of it win promotion, than over-spend and build up debts just to buy a promotion at the first attempt.

No club has a god given right to get promoted. You earn it over the course of the season with the points you pick up.

We're back on the finances again, going around in circles.

We are operating at a profit/minimal losses. The current board has absolutely nothing to do with us being in administration before.

Spending and wasting money because you have to get promoted at the very first attempt will land you in adminstration. Your own club have had two lessons in this, and there's countless others across the football league.

If you'd rather spend big and get promoted this season than spend wisely and it takes three years then frankly you deserve everything you get in the future. It's fans (and owners) like you who are responsible for the mess that so many clubs are in today. The net debt of the teams today is staggering, and there's nothing at all to show for it, other than a group of very rich footballers and agents.

Gulliball wrote:Spending and wasting money because you have to get promoted at the very first attempt will land you in adminstration. Your own club have had two lessons in this, and there's countless others across the football league.

If you'd rather spend big and get promoted this season than spend wisely and it takes three years then frankly you deserve everything you get in the future. It's fans (and owners) like you who are responsible for the mess that so many clubs are in today. The net debt of the teams today is staggering, and there's nothing at all to show for it, other than a group of very rich footballers and agents.

I just said we operate at a profit/minimal losses yet you completely ignore me.

In the last 5 years you have posted losses on £7.9m, and you're spending hugely this season.

And to pre-empt your reply of 'that was the last board' - it's still your club. Your method of big spending for instant success doesn't work in the long term and leads to administration. Twice in your case.

I'll stop ignoring you when you post something that isn't laughably untrue. You either make a huge loss or sell a big player and make a big profit. In precisely 0 recent seasons have you operated at a minimal profit or loss.

I knew this would happen. I know we'd just end up at another question that has already been answered.

The current board took over in 2008. When they took over the club, they also inherited the debt. The current debt was accrued by the last board. NOT the current one. The club owe nothing to anybody except the holding company, which is owned by the board. There was a transition period where the current lot accrued debts while they were making the club more efficient, but it is now much more streamlined

Once the already existing debts were cleared and the club was restructured, the 2010 figures show a profit (sale of Cox balanced the books)
2011 is also likely to show a profit/small loss (sale of Austin plus Wembley appearance will help balance the books)

This season we have spent, yes. We have also received 150-200k from Southend in transfer fees, slashed wage bills from last season. FA cup fourth round prize money and gate receipts. Probable Wembley appearance. Very likely play off campaign at the least. AND if we don't go up, we have saleable assets. (Ritchie/Caddis will almost certainly leave anyway

I don't know how to put it in simpler terms....... The club is now being run within its own means without generating debt.

If you don't sell a player this season you will make a big loss. That's non-arguable. You needed the £1.5m sale of Cox to generate a 400k profit, and you needed a £1.5m sale of Austin to break even, even with a Wembley appearance. This isn't in any way sustainable or a good way to run a football club, as your two administrations should have taught you.

I also don't see why you are so keen to seperate the current board from the previous one when the current one are doing exactly the same and reliant on sales to keep the club going.

Paolos meatballs wrote: The club is now being run within its own means without generating debt.

In the same way that if you ignore the previous £7.9m of losses then you operate at a profit, yes.

To anyone living on this planet, unfortunately you aren't.

Gulliball wrote: In the same way that if you ignore the previous £7.9m of losses then you operate at a profit, yes.

To anyone living on this planet, unfortunately you aren't.

Dude......

Obtuse.

Whatever.....

Think what you want to think. It's just so bleedin obvious that if you don't get it by now, you never will.

Paolos meatballs wrote:Whatever.....

Think what you want to think. It's just so bleedin obvious that if you don't get it by now, you never will.

Whateverrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!

Paolos meatballs wrote:I missed nothing, you lot did from the start.

You say that you don't need to spend to get out of the league. You could rephrase that to you don't need to spend if you are happy to knock about for a few seasons, getting there or there abouts, until your season eventually arrives. We are not happy to do that. Promotion is a minimum, failing to win a playoff final would be considered a failure.

YOUR fans say you don't need money to get our of the league even though you have failed to do so yourself. You might be happy to look upon failed playoff campaign as successful, we most certainly will not.

*cough* Stevenage *cough*

As for not happy to do that, I'm very much afraid that that is hard cheese. Buying your way up the dividions, accumulating vast, unsustainable debt along the way is a recipe for disaster, as you will find out for the third time, very shortly.

The reason you won't look upon a failed playoff campaign as success is precisely because of the money you have spent. If you were to behave reasonably and as you should really be forced to (ie by spending what you've got to spend, not racking up debt which you cannot pay and then defaulting on it and screwing over all those people who got up where you are in the first place), then you very much would be pleased with such a season, and that, really, is what is the joy of football at this level. If you want to just win every game every week without really trying, why not support Manchester City?

Matt.

I have nothing of relevance to this thread, however it has been a very good read, really enjoyed it, might be time to bring in the old agree to diss-agree thingy i suspect..just a thought.