Politics

[AustrianAndyGull]

All politicians are liars and cheats Troj but people suffered so we could exercise our democratic right so i have a moral obligation to vote for someone even if i know not one of them has my best interests at heart. They're all on the fiddle to the point where if one of them came out and declared he WOULDN'T be claiming expenses as he'd rather keep the money in the public purse or other similar scenarios like that which will never happen, then he'd be certified insane. It has become the norm to get your arse in the door with promises to the people and once your in there it's one big free for all. Until that ONE person i mentioned earlier emerges and influences another then change will never be possible.

[Gullscorer]

I'm not against wind-powered electricity in principle. Of course, there's a lot of wind in politics! But I'm sure UKIP knows just as well as the other political parties that, in order to produce all the electricity the country needs right now, there must be power produced from a variety of sources. The question is, which ones are to be favoured over others? It is not, and cannot be, simply a question of profits and economics.

I'm against nuclear power. Far from being a clean source of energy as its proponents claim, nuclear power plants produce the worst kind of pollution - radio-active - which remains dangerous for hundreds if not thousands of years and requires constant attention.

For me, the best (and most refreshing) source of power is hydro-electric, even wave-power. But perhaps the most neglected source of power, I presume because technology has not yet provide a truly efficient means of producing large amounts of electricity with it, is the most abundant: the sun.

[Gullscorer]

UKIP, from its beginnings as a single-issue (anti EU) pressure group, has finally arrived as a fully-fledged national force in politics. It has put down political roots, and the other parties are finally having to take notice. It's not too difficult to see why this has happened.

First, since the election of Tony Blair as Labour Party leader in July 1994, the three main political parties have all lost touch with the ordinary people of this nation. They are practically indistinguishable from each other, and the same can be said of their leaders. None of them display the character and personal qualities of authority and leadership needed to inspire confidence in their abilities to take the country forward. They are a bunch of muppets.

Secondly, UKIP alone among the political parties has shown it has what it takes to stand up against the country's disastrous capitulation to the undemocratic EU and to successive government's ruinous pro-EU policies, of which immigration is but one issue. Other parties make much of trade with the EU, but once-upon-a-time our country had a great manufacturing base and we exported all over the world, but since our leaders' love affair with the EU began, practically all our industries have either closed down or are now in foreign ownership. And why should our trade with EU countries require political union with them? 42% of Australia's trade is with China and Japan, yet nobody is suggesting that those three countries enter into a political union. In fact, a result of our EU membership is that our trade with the rest of the world has been made more difficult due to trade barriers put up by the EU. And, of course, EU rules and laws take supremacy and override decisions taken in our own parliament.

The British people are beginning to wise up to all this, hence the rise in the popularity of UKIP, whom Conservatives have called 'clowns'. So we have a choice between UKIP's clowns and the other parties muppets! I know which I'd prefer..

[AustrianAndyGull]

UKIP, from its beginnings as a single-issue (anti EU) pressure group, has finally arrived as a fully-fledged national force in politics. It has put down political roots, and the other parties are finally having to take notice. It's not too difficult to see why this has happened.

First, since the election of Tony Blair as Labour Party leader in July 1994, the three main political parties have all lost touch with the ordinary people of this nation. They are practically indistinguishable from each other, and the same can be said of their leaders. None of them display the character and personal qualities of authority and leadership needed to inspire confidence in their abilities to take the country forward. They are a bunch of muppets.

Secondly, UKIP alone among the political parties has shown it has what it takes to stand up against the country's disastrous capitulation to the undemocratic EU and to successive government's ruinous pro-EU policies, of which immigration is but one issue. Other parties make much of trade with the EU, but once-upon-a-time our country had a great manufacturing base and we exported all over the world, but since our leaders' love affair with the EU began, practically all our industries have either closed down or are now in foreign ownership. And why should our trade with EU countries require political union with them? 42% of Australia's trade is with China and Japan, yet nobody is suggesting that those three countries enter into a political union. In fact, a result of our EU membership is that our trade with the rest of the world has been made more difficult due to trade barriers put up by the EU. And, of course, EU rules and laws take supremacy and override decisions taken in our own parliament.

The British people are beginning to wise up to all this, hence the rise in the popularity of UKIP, whom Conservatives have called 'clowns'. So we have a choice between UKIP's clowns and the other parties muppets! I know which I'd prefer..

That is the most aggressive thing i've ever seen you post Mick!

but also

[Gullscorer]

And Nigel Farage is showing himself to be a leader whom the ordinary people of this country can connect with.

[Colorado Gull]

I haven't been on the forum for a while, let alone this thread but I think I should put my opinion on the recent local election triumph for UKIP. A record amount of candidates just around 30 less than the Lib Dems, 144 seats, 2nd in the South Shields by election and well and truly made a stand in British politics. I would say (although the Libs are in the coalition and have seats in Parliament) that UKIP are the third party today. UKIP are polling the polls double the Lib Dems and with UKIP coming second in South Shields (by the way, if the voting system in SS wasn't 66% postal vote, the results would have been much closer!) and the LB having a record low result with 1.6% of the vote, they're basically a nothing party.

There are some negatives for UKIP though and these need to be addressed (and will be in the coming months to come before 2015). 1) UKIP really needs to sit down as a party and figure out their policies! Some are very complicated and they need to come out and say to the people what their policies are for the things that affect the people. 2) UKIP's energy policy. I don't really fully understand it. I don't like wind turbines, they are useless, unreliable and ruin our countryside. But I am also not a fan of nuclear power.

Anyway, back on the positives of this great plucky growing party! UKIP have made the three parties look and sound absolutely ridiculous. Cameron has eaten is own words by calling them 'closet racists' by saying 'it's no good insulting a party people vote for'. Ed Miliband and Labour completely ignore UKIP because they know they'll be in power next election and UKIP will help them on the way. The Lib Dems go on and on how they are the party for Britain and slate UKIP anyway the can by saying their policies are ludicrous and ignore the bleeding obvious!

Watching the Question Time including; Nigel Farage (UKIP), a Labour representative, a Tory representative, Natalie Bennett (Leader of the Green Party*, who are completely incompetent!) and Simon Hughes (Deputy Leader of the Lib Dems). It's amazing to see how boring and repetitive the parties are. The Tories blame everything on the previous Labour government, Labour moan about the Tories but don't say anything different, the Lib Dems are confused on who to stand behind (not a euphemism...or maybe it is I dunno?) and then confuse themselves but wrong facts. And then there is UKIP, completely different to every single party, make them look silly and operate themselves as the opposition. EXCELLENT STUFF! VOTE UKIP!

*oh yeah a little bit on the Greens. This is a party who supports FULL open door immigration and we should be PROUD that we let all the people in as we do now. This is a party who says we need to cut spending, but borrow more and this is a party who spent £20,000 on a tree. Madness.

[AustrianAndyGull]

If it weren't for trees Danny lad we'd all be dead!

But i see what you're saying. =D

I went for UKIP in the end partly because they struck a chord and partly because the usual suspects are just so cringeworthy and are in actual fact a load of tossers.

Good to see you at Morecambe mate and have a brief chat.

[ferrarilover]

UKIP gained votes for two reasons. Neither of them have anything to do with them being a viable force in politics.

The extreme Right always becomes more popular during hard times as people look for people to blame. Foreigners, blacks, Muslins, Jews, gays etc are all easy targets.
Secondly, the traditional protest vote is no longer available, so people are turning to the next option on the ballot paper.

Please don't mistake the local election results as some sort of victory for UKIP, it was nothing more than a shot across the bows of the incumbent Government (which we always get, regardless of who is in, the electorate have extremely short memories). All this result will succeed in doing is forcing the Government to focus more of its attention on strong arming the horrible shit-bag Farrage and his merry band of homophobes and racists and less of its attention on digging the country out of the hole left for them by the useless, limp-wristed Labour Party. This will have a negative effect on us all. I hope you're happy with yourselves.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I think classing voters for UKIP as racists Matt is unfounded and unfair although i do think a name change for the party might be appropriate. I don't want UK independance, i'm a European and i always tick my ethnic origin as white european and not white british and i love having immigrants in the UK. In the main they add culture, hard work and contribute so much to the economy when the real feckless are British born and bred. My problem is not which countries these people come to the UK from or what they choose to do when they get here, my problem is that there are too many of them for our infrastructure to cope. It's not racism but the politicians trying to avoid the egg shells whilst raising the issue are always shot down in flames as being racists and bigots. At some point this issue has to be dealt with whether people like it or not as unlimited immigration from some of the poorest countries in europe into the UK has and will continue to stretch our resources to the limit.

The problem for me is that for every Pole coming here is there a Brit going the other way? For every Lithuanian that comes here is there a Brit heading for Vilnius? For every Romanian heading to our shores is there a Brit bound for Bucharest? For every Latvian rocking up to the UK is there a Brit making their way to Riga? For every Bulgarian coming here is there a Brit looking for a new life on the Black Sea? Forgive me the geography lesson but the answers to all these questions is no. There is a massive disproportion of people coming to Britain than leaving for these countries and therefore it means one thing. A huge strain on local services at a time when everyone is cutting back as it is. It's mental really and there simply has to be some sort of criteria for people coming here like do they have a job to go to, have they considered the implications with regards housing ( i personally believe that any newcomer to the uk must at least work and pay into the system for a few years before getting housing preference over British workers ) and where they are going to live, have they enrolled on an English course at a local college? These aren't racist ideas, they are common sense and trying to be fair and reasonable to everybody but whenever politicians raise these points they get battered for it.

I don't doubt that there are racists amongst UKIP but the issue of immigration must be addressed and tackled so that it can enable immigrants AND UK nationals to live in harmony beside each other in communities without any simmering resentments or conflict and our public services can have a chance to recover. On the subject of British feckless people, give them a year to get a job or stop their benefits and take away their housing. It's about time some of these people who think they can live for free are given a wake up call. Give them a warning to get themselves washed, dressed properly, get out of the pub / bookies and get their lazy feckin arses to work. If they ignore the warning then just turf them out on the streets and stop their f*cking money. I'm sick of these people now. If they don't want to help themselves then fine, let them rot, stop any medical treatments they may have for 'addictions' oh boo hoo, excuses excuses, stop everything and give them nothing and if they commit crimes then bang them away in cordoned off farmland and make them work the land to produce crops or something until they wish to become part of a society.

[cambgull]

Looks like we've found a Conservative then.

You are partly right about the two reasons UKIP have gained votes, but you have missed the third which is the steady increase of votes they have received the last couple elections due to the views drawing slightly more to the middle. You are also making the classic mistake of confusing UKIP with the BNP, which shows how much you're talking out of your backside, once again. The BNP are the ones who want to blame "Foreigners, blacks, Muslims, Jews and Gays" (such a middle class, detached from reality way of putting this, by the way). UKIP aren't about segregating certain societies who are already a part of Britain, it is about solving the problems we are currently having by stopping more from happening in the future, immigration being a prime example. The damage is already done by the Conservatives and Labour though, who have both spent too long bowing to political correctness.

If we don't stand up and actually make a change to the way this country is run, we will just carry on the same vicious cycle of picking the other party to the one we currently don't like. All that seems to happen at the moment is we are in a Conservative phase, where cut backs are made, taxes are increased and the focus is on increasing the money in the Government pot. Funnily enough, the only two good things in terms of money going to the general public's pockets are Lib Dem policies. Eventually though, we'll get fed up of oppression from the Conservatives so we'll end up with a Labour Government who will put the money back in the public's pockets. Except they'll totally screw up the country in the process and we'll end up with another Conservative Government who make cut backs and oppress the working class again.

Honestly, what is the point of doing this over and over again? It just shows how stupid and short-sighted our nation is. We're full of too many people who have no knowledge of politics and vote for the shadow party solely because they don't like the current incumbents and then we have too many people who vote for one party and one party only, because they've "always voted for that party". Despite this unchanging allegiance, they have no idea about any of the policies their party are standing for. Labour or the Tories could make one of their main policies the want to murder all of the working and middle classes and I bet you they'd still get a quarter of the votes from people who don't really have any interest in politics and wouldn't have a clue who or what they are voting for.

[cambgull]

Andy, couldn't agree more but one point I will raise is in regards to your last point about the unemployed. I totally agree that people should get off their arses, but it actually isn't as big a problem as is often made out to be. Jobseekers Allowance alone accounts for 3% of the total from the benefits pot. Housing benefit just under 10%. Pensions account for 51% due to the amount given being around double that of JSA and to a much larger amount of people.

[Behind-the-Gulls]

UKIP are picking up the mantle of Thatcherism and her free market ideals and cranking it up several notches.
UKIP stand for minimal government which will spend money on defence,national security and little else.
Private insurance would be required for health,welfare,social care and pretty much everything else.
Basically the responsibilities of the state would shrink enormously and the private sector and market forces would be left to their own devices.Once exposed to proper scrutiny the "attractiveness" of UKIP will quickly fade away as I don't truly believe the majority of voters want to see the end of the NHS,Welfare state, public services etc,but have been lured in by UKIP's headline grabbing policies on Europe and immigration, both major issues which the main parties are struggling to find a solution to.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Andy, couldn't agree more but one point I will raise is in regards to your last point about the unemployed. I totally agree that people should get off their arses, but it actually isn't as big a problem as is often made out to be. Jobseekers Allowance alone accounts for 3% of the total from the benefits pot. Housing benefit just under 10%. Pensions account for 51% due to the amount given being around double that of JSA and to a much larger amount of people.

Cheers for the figures Luke but i just want the lazy oiks to get off their arses because it's the right and fair thing to do for the rest of us. It doesn't matter to me that relatively speaking they aren't taking that much cash out of the pot, that's irrelevant. The crux with me is that it isn't fair and if people don't wish to work then i've no problem with that so long as they aren't given anything for free. Then they will either HAVE to work OR commit crimes for which extra prisons should be built to house all these cretins ( tough prisons with tough sentences and not the playstation ones we have now ). Benefits are a stop gap when the sh*t has hit or when illness strikes or whatever, i've no problem with that but they aren't a full time job. Jesus am i sounding a bit Draconian here or am i making a bit of sense to anybody?

[Gullscorer]

Former Chancellor of the Exchequer, (Lord) Nigel Lawson, says he now believes that Britain would be better off out of the European Union. Many other Conservative voters, along with increasing numbers of former Labour and Liberal Democrat voters, feel the same, hence the rise in support for UKIP. Getting the UK out of the European Union is UKIP's raison d'etre. Until this happens they will continue to be a rising force in British politics.

[Dave]

Bit to early to dismiss the recent local elections as some kind of protest vote, no one will be able to tell for sure until a general election comes around, I think the protest came more from the low turnout than anything.

Trouble is, there is no real difference in the so called big three parties , Blair was a Thatcherite and 3 years or so after the Lib-Lab pact, the Liberals jump into bed with Tories one of the reason I have not voted in any election for some time. And when it comes to racism lets not kid ourselves all polictal parties have them.

UKIP have M-E-P'S and councilers it is possible they will have an MP come 2015, so they are a force now, maybe not a major one.

Sure it's already been mentioned, we give something like £53 million a day to Europe, yet we pay around £1.35p for a litre of diesel around here, how much of that is tax.

We currently give around £267 million in aid to Pakistan, that will increased to £446 million by 2014/15, yet only 0.57% of Pakistan's population paid tax, that money goes to health and education and no doubt into building nice roads aswell, yet we can't seem to treat, educate our people, and worst of all I can't drive out of my road without dodging potholes, nothing against ending aid to Pakistan, but why are we almost doubling it, when their own people do not pay tax.

And don't even get me started on Abu Qatada, we can't even deport someone who was born in Bethlehem out of own country because of the European court of human rights.

I am warming to UKIP, yep I am, might even go and vote next time around.