We are going to have to score a lot of goals!!

[Gullscorer]

Agreed. Not saying Stevens had a good game, but he does not warrant all the negative criticism and denigration some people seem to think he deserves. What he should have done Saturday was stay on the wing instead of cutting inside so much, take on the defender and put in some decent crosses or passes; this of course applies to both wingers, but depends upon the ball being properly provided for them in the first place. Fair to say that, except for a few moments of brilliance, the team as a whole did not perform at their best Saturday, but hell, it's only the first game, and they will only get better.

[Father Jack]

Im with Dave here. Im struggling to remember the last time Danny actually went past a defender down the line and got a cross in for one of the strikers. It is noticable that when he starts to run with the ball on the wing he ALWAYS ends up cutting inside. When he gets confronted with a defender down the line he usualy checks and lays the ball back to the full back. The whole point of a winger is to provide the strikers with scoring chances. Danny clearly does not do that and saying that none of the team performed well is just a smokescreen for a situation that has existed for some time. Its not just this season.
Yes he's a smashing lad and can probably do things with the ball the likes of Robertson could only dream of. That makes no difference when he is not providing the service to the strikers that his position in the team should do.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Stevens did not have a bad game; and I think he will improve as a player with Martin Ling in charge; don't think he was able to do that previously with Paul Buckle. I'm not saying he's Premier League talent, but, given the opportunity and guidance under Ling which he never had with Buckle, he'll improve and go on to make a very useful contribution to the Gulls squad.

Have a day off mate!

[Chris B]

Stevens is a deeply frustrating player, and for 70mins or so yesterday he was totally ineffective. But I despair that some seem unwilling to acknowledge his bright 'cameo' (good link up play, particularly with Oastler, and a couple of penetrating runs beating defenders) after we fell 0-2 behind. I also remember one of our only bright moments in the 1st half involved Stevens in a central attacking position.

That said, I was disappointed not to see Macklin start given his pre-season form. Yesterday did little to change my mind, with the inevitable lack of pace up front and from Morris on the left. I hope Lloyd impresses at Southampton, and is in the XI next Saturday.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I take on board all the pro-Stevens comments but he gets paid to do a job which he obviously cannot do. He has been ineffective for the past 3 or 4 years now. Lets keep playing Stevens because he can occasionally create the odd attack!! Madness!!!! Doesn't say much about the attacking attributes of our squad if thats the case. For me, like Father Jack and some other posters have pointed out HE NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER EVER SKINS THE FULL BACK GETS TO THE BYELINE AND DELIVERS A CROSS FOR FECKS SAKE!! HE IS A F****NG WINGER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Get the ball, run quickly, cut inside, get the ball run quickly and cut inside, get the ball run quickly and cut inside. The bloke has got some sort of OCD! I hoped to God that Stevens would be off in the summer so i wouldn't be tempted to post stuff about him berating him all the time but i just cannot help it, its my OCD you see. Danny you were rewarded with a new contract in the summer which many were surprised about and you have had all summer to work on your game and address the problems you have in order to make you a better player. You were given a starting berth vs Burton and you are just the same old player mate. If you don't have the confidence to be more direct now and start skinning defenders inside AND out then it ain't never gonna happen. I won't slag anyone else of because our players previously here under Buckle are good enough and the new players need time, Stevens however has been here years, been paid and done nothing and is the only squad member at the moment ill equipped to be a pro-footballer.

[Southampton Gull]

I watch Danny go on runs in almost every game I see him play, the most frustrating thing though is that for all the excitement he creates as he starts running it's not long before you sigh at yet another wasted opportunity.

Chris B, if he did as you say he did I'd be more than happy to talk about it, my view though is that his seemingly best ability is to pass the ball back inside to Eunan or return it to Oastler who for some unknown reason seems to be able to do what Danny can't and that's beat a man and get a cross in. Every time I saw him run at opponents he went inside and lost it, tried to pass it to a forward and lost it or just got muscled off the ball. I'd love nothing more than to see him play well but he just doesn't deserve a starting berth based on the sum of the performances I've seen from him.

I was surprised he was picked ahead of Macklin who did more in a few minutes than Stevens did all game. It isn't personal for me with any of our players, I just called it as I saw it. Like Chris says, I hope he impresses at St Marys and is given the nod at Rovers come the weekend. Just a thought though, Stevens would be mighty keen to put one over on Buckle, but so would Macklin, half each?

[AustrianAndyGull]

A much calmer and more reasoned post than mine Dave. My answer to playing Stevens or Macklin vs Rovers is that shock horror, i would play Macklin every time. It doesn't matter if Stevens has a feeling of bitterness towards Buckle and has revenge in mind because he just isn't good enough or consistent enough to influence a game of football no matter how revved up he might me. Haleys Comet comes around more often than Stevens goals also so if he can't generate plenty of crosses, mazy runs and pinpoint passes ala OKane then he sure as hell isn't going to pop up on the scoresheet. A winger that can't pass, shoot, dribble, cross or score. Can't we farm him out to Exeter?!

[Southampton Gull]

The thing is Andy, he can actually do it, I've seen him do it. It just happens so rarely that you're willing him to create something and he just ends up makin you feel like nutting the fan in front of you. Ok, maybe not quite but "frustrating" is the word that describes him best of all. I'd love Danny to come good, imagine the damage he and Eunan could do to teams if he could find some consitency, I just don't think it's ever going to happen for him here though.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Agree Dave that he does have some ability but the times he has used it to the benefit of Torquay is nowhere near enough to warrant us paying his wages. Therefore IMHO he is not cut out to be a footballer otherwise he would have got his game sorted and kick started his career which i presume he wants a career in football. It sure as hell hasn't looked like it for the past 4 years or so.

[Southampton Gull]

He's a strange case, even when pointing out his shortcomings myself I still feel like I want to stand up for him. I guess it's like that for a lot of people, we all want to see him do well. I think having a new Manager has saved him and given him another chance to impress, it's just that my view on his performance yesterday was what any of us have come to expect from him when he starts a game. Morris wasn't much better on the day but he does get stuck in and does win the ball back, I've never seen Danny do that EVER.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Well i suppose Stevens will always be a marmite player for us fans and we've still got to get behind him when he plays or comes on. Just because i slag him off on here doesn't mean i'll do it to him when he plays, there is no real point in that I just wish he would surprise me one time instead of me knowing exactly whats coming.

[Chris B]

I think we can all agree familiarity has bred contempt when it comes to Danny Stevens. As you say, Andy, he has always (often frustratingly) cut inside or checked back on his runs. And yet some outstanding moments have come when he has done so. Two, admittedly old examples, are his goal at Burton in 2008, and the cross for Sills against Exeter in the New Year's Day derby. As an aside, I've always thought him more useful on the left, but I think Morris has a firm grip of that position.

On a slightly different note, I find TUFC supporters' views on wingers a strange one. There seems to be an insistence that they beat a man, get to the by-line, and put in a cross. I can't think of a winger we’ve had in recent times who fits that criteria, aside from the disappointing Buster Phillips. Hill, Fowler and Carlisle certainly didn't, and the likes of Robinson, Thomson and Carayol had the potential to do so, but often were more interested in getting on the score sheet themselves.

[Father Jack]

Chris, it's the fact that the likes of Carlisle could get a dangerous pass into the front men pretty much 9 times out of 10 from the wing. He didnt need to hare down the touchline to do it, though he did enough times despite not being overly blessed with lightning pace. The same goes for Jase Fowler to be honest. Zebs when on the wing could confuse the living daylights out of a defender and get a powerful cross low into the box. Robinson, Thompson and Carayol were all played on the wrong side to cross the ball into the danger areas hence they usually ended up cutting in and shooting. If they played on the right wing then dangerous crosses would have been provided. One of the two wide players needs to have the pace to provide the outlet to force the defences back. Morris seems to be the preferred option on the left but certainly didnt look dangerous or particularly quick yesterday so that leaves the right wing slot to get the service to the front men. Without that service it we are going to struggle to score many goals

[stefano]

Well I suppose the thread title may have occurred to many at the start of the 1965/66 season when with a new manager from a non-league club and a number of new players including one from that same non-league club we opened our account with a 4-1 defeat to Bradford City. Before the season was half-way through we had also lost two home games to Stockport County (4-1) and Darlington (4-0).

However in those days before fans' forums when discussions on Plainmoor matters took place in the pub or the park dependent on age, we all kept believing and stuck together resulting in over 1000 of us making the long long trek to Darlington for the final game of the season on 21 May 1966.

In these days of motorways when you can set off at 7am for an afternoon kick off at Darlington, back in those days we left in a long line of Wallace Arnold coaches leaving Plainmoor at 7.30pm on the Friday evening before the game and picking me and a multitude of other fans up at Newton Abbot opposite the railway station at 8pm. The long overnight journey took us through every village, town, and city en route with a change of driver being made at the Wallace Arnold depot in
Leeds.

But having started the season with a 4-1 hammering and losing 4-0 at home to Darlington who were above us in the table ... we drew 0-0 and got promoted.

.... and then only a few weeks to wait for England to win the World Cup.

Good days to be a 14 year old English Torquay United supporter!

[Chris B]

Chris, it's the fact that the likes of Carlisle could get a dangerous pass into the front men pretty much 9 times out of 10 from the wing. He didnt need to hare down the touchline to do it, though he did enough times despite not being overly blessed with lightning pace. The same goes for Jase Fowler to be honest. Zebs when on the wing could confuse the living daylights out of a defender and get a powerful cross low into the box. Robinson, Thompson and Carayol were all played on the wrong side to cross the ball into the danger areas hence they usually ended up cutting in and shooting. If they played on the right wing then dangerous crosses would have been provided. One of the two wide players needs to have the pace to provide the outlet to force the defences back. Morris seems to be the preferred option on the left but certainly didnt look dangerous or particularly quick yesterday so that leaves the right wing slot to get the service to the front men. Without that service it we are going to struggle to score many goals

I agree with a lot of this. Indeed, my point about Carlisle and Fowler was that wingers with quality but not necessarily outstanding pace can offer a lot. The feeling I have got standing on the Popside over the years is a lot of our fans don't have time for a winger - no matter how effective he is - unless he streaks past the full-back and crosses from the by-line. You make a valid point about the wing Robinson, Thomson and Carayol played on, but I would maintain they were overly selfish. Whilst I rate Muzzy much more highly than many and fear what he may do to us next weekend, he never convinced me he could consistently provide dangerous crosses.

Re. the balance of our current attacking options, during pre-season I too suggested we needed to go with a pacy right-winger (Macklin) to compliment Morris as a Carlisle-like wide man. This is particularly crucial with two back-to-goal strikers in Howe and Kee.

On Stevens, anyone with GullsPlayer can fast-forward to Kee's shot in the 2nd half to see the best of the few good runs he went on (even if the commentator credits Morris!).