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So a simple question...

Knowing what was to come over the four seasons how many would go back to that first day of the first season in the Conference and say no to Buckle and gamble on a different manager?

What I meant by experience wasn't necessarily age or even comparison of games, but Ling has had 3 different jobs with different outcomes in different situations. He's done well for Orient, then battled relegation for a season, he's had a nightmare at Cambridge so he's got a few different experiences to work from and no doubt he has learnt from his mistakes over the years or maybe things he would do differently, he's now doing that here.

All Buckle has known is his and the Torquay way for 4 years of an upwards curve every year. So HIS way is the right way in his eyes, that might not work for every club and that's when you have to adapt and as he's never had to that's probably why he's struggling. It will be interesting to see how he goes in his next job, to have a failure on the CV isn't new. Look at most managers and somewhere down the line they'd have had a disaster in all likelihood. It's how you learn from it that's important.

To say he's the reason we're in this league as a negative is completely unfair. To just forget a 48 game season where we over achieved played some great stuff at times and beat a ton of sides with loads more cash than us to then blame him because none of our best players turned up at Old Trafford is just ridiculous to tell the truth.

For the record, my three most successful TUFC managers :


Frank O'Farrell (my first promotion and 6 seasons in the promised land)

Cyril Knowles (my first visit to Wembley with TUFC)

Paul Buckle (two Wembley visits and promotion from the abyss)


I hope to add Dinger to the list.

budleigh wrote:So a simple question...

Knowing what was to come over the four seasons how many would go back to that first day of the first season in the Conference and say no to Buckle and gamble on a different manager?

I would. You know as well as I do just how much was squandered.

Budleigh,

No because the downside of the gamble is too big - even if theoretically 9 out of 10 managers could have got us promoted from the conference, a 1 in 10 risk is too big.

However I'm glad he has now gone as I think he is wasteful and our club cannot afford that.

I do hope in a few years, his personality and manner of departure are forgotten and that he is simply seen as the manager at the time the club pulled back from the brink.

Promotion from the Conference in 2 seasons, the other ending in playoff defeat isn't to be sniffed at

ask

Luton
Cambridge
Kidderminster
York
Oxford
Exeter
Lincoln
Stockport
Mansfield
Wrexham
Darlington
Grimsby

Just how easy it is to get out of that league in 2 years. The other season also ending in the playoffs. We're a smaller club that just about every club on that list as well with the possible exceptions of Darlo and Kidderminster. Most of them had bigger budgets, bigger crowds and better players than us and we beat them all to the punch in terms of time needed to get out of that league. It's an absolute graveyard of a division for ex league sides.

NONE of those clubs had the financial clout that we did the minute they dropped into the conference so the comparison just isn't there.

How many of them could allow a manager to practically pick his own team without needing to offload other players?

royalgull wrote:Promotion from the Conference in 2 seasons, the other ending in playoff defeat isn't to be sniffed at

ask

Luton
Cambridge
Kidderminster
York
Oxford
Exeter
Lincoln
Stockport
Mansfield
Wrexham
Darlington
Grimsby

Just how easy it is to get out of that league in 2 years. The other season also ending in the playoffs. We're a smaller club that just about every club on that list as well with the possible exceptions of Darlo and Kidderminster. Most of them had bigger budgets, bigger crowds and better players than us and we beat them all to the punch in terms of time needed to get out of that league. It's an absolute graveyard of a division for ex league sides.

Too true its a graveyard. You missed out Rushden & Diamonds who have disappeared in smoke up the crematorium chimney and Scarborough, Maidstone, Boston, Chester and Halifax who are coming out of critical care.

SG - I'm not sure the phrase 'financial clout' has ever been used in the past and will ever be used in the future when referring to Torquay United!

Do you think(know?) we had more than Luton and Oxford? Stockport also this season seemed to make some noteworthy signings suggesting some backing.

But generally I agree he was given substantial resources for the conference together with a virtual clean slate in the first season as we only had 4 players.

Still as has been seen many times before money does not guarantee success. However, I believe we should have been promoted in the first season.

Ling v Buckle

What's the score ?

1 - 0 to Dinger and an away win at that !

You're wrong. With the money we had as a parachute payment, the tv money and the backing given by Paul Bristow, for a BSP club we had financial clout. We outbid other clubs to secure players identified by our scout, you dont do that if you have no money. Luton and Oxford went into the BSP in financial meltdown, so did Exeter along with most of the other former league clubs mentioned

The first season we made the play-offs and a spat between Buckle and Lee saw some of the strangest team selections even for Buckle. Money doesn't guarantee success, but it sure helps.

[quote="Southampton Gull"]You're wrong. quote]

Not sure I ever disagreed with you - I just found the phrase financial clout associated with Torquay to be very unusual

The club undoubtedly gave Buckle a potential conference winning budget.

Southampton Gull wrote:You're wrong. With the money we had as a parachute payment, the tv money and the backing given by Paul Bristow, for a BSP club we had financial clout. We outbid other clubs to secure players identified by our scout, you dont do that if you have no money. Luton and Oxford went into the BSP in financial meltdown, so did Exeter along with most of the other former league clubs mentioned

The first season we made the play-offs and a spat between Buckle and Lee saw some of the strangest team selections even for Buckle. Money doesn't guarantee success, but it sure helps.

Can you share more of the spat now both have departed? I thought everyone was very much on Buckle's side regarding this as Lee was interfering with team and player selection?

Richinns wrote:Can you share more of the spat now both have departed? I thought everyone was very much on Buckle's side regarding this as Lee was interfering with team and player selection?

I always thought that Lee/Buckle situation was a classic case of "too many cocks spoil thing broth".

Spelling intentional.

Threads gone the way I didn't really want it to go, wanted to more highlight the excellent work Ling is doing in terms of getting the absolute maximum out of the individuals he's got in the squad, even the ones that were maybe considered squad or fringe players. The area where I feel Buckle really had his main weakness during his time here.

Rather than the merits and faults of Buckle's time here. I think Buckle was given a budget for us to compete, with the size of club we are, the lack of resources we make for ourselves and the size of the task at hand inheriting a squad of 4 and on the back of one of the most shambolic seasons and off seasons in Football League history, he was given (and had to be given) a budget that was decent for the division. He and Colin Lee assembled a squad of proven BSP players which went very close the first season, then he made the neccesary changes to take us to the next step. There have been clubs before and since with bigger budgets than us, and the likes of Luton won't be paying peanuts 3 seasons on in that league that haven't done what we've done.

I can understand the Buckle resentment, I dont' know him personally but no smoke without fire in terms of some of the stories about him, I too am enjoying a laugh at Rovers and his expense but I find it a bit sad/pathetic that everything he's done good for our club suddenly now has an excuse 'massive budget' 'his fault we're not in League 1' and all that sort of stuff. He took over we were a laughing stock in BSP, we're now a solid League 2 side. We're moving forwards (slowly but steadily) under Ling again, going to have a really nice little ground in 6 months time and a lot of that is down to the last 4 years of Buckle/Lee (for a bit)/Bristow and the board.

Rewind 4 years and the moment Rosenior was sacked after 10mins, would any of you seriously have said if you were offered 'Well the manager is going to be a bit of a dick but you will be a top 10 side in League 2, have 2 runs to the FA Cup 4th round, play at Wembley twice and Old Trafford once' Fancy that?