TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

The knocking of our forward line continually throught the season has got to me

The reason we are bottom is quite simply because we have BY FAR the worse midfield in the entire country, in distribution, organisation and positional play

Our forwards have had terrible service in the vast majority of games.....you try being Hawley, stuck on his own up front, with balls pump up to you as if you were Rene Howe time and time again.....not sure even Winnall or Hogan would be in double figures with that service

Yes we're bottom, yes we have struggled to score goals, but Hawley is still a person, and I am disgusted that people would rather slag him off than wish him well.

His football has been poor for us, and we have been a bad move for him. But come on people, being glad someone is injured? That is worse than anything KH has done this season.

MidDevon wrote:The knocking of our forward line continually throught the season has got to me

The reason we are bottom is quite simply because we have BY FAR the worse midfield in the entire country, in distribution, organisation and positional play

Our forwards have had terrible service in the vast majority of games.....you try being Hawley, stuck on his own up front, with balls pump up to you as if you were Rene Howe time and time again.....not sure even Winnall or Hogan would be in double figures with that service

But our forward line is shocking, as, is our midfield. However, look at how much more threatening Coulthirst was yesterday. He looked more dangerous in that 80 minutes or however long it was, than Benyon and Hawley have looked all season and that is with the same midfield behind him. Our forwards are dire - the worst I have seen at Plainmoor since the days of Byng and Laight starting together.

MidDevon wrote:The knocking of our forward line continually throught the season has got to me

The reason we are bottom is quite simply because we have BY FAR the worse midfield in the entire country, in distribution, organisation and positional play

Our forwards have had terrible service in the vast majority of games.....you try being Hawley, stuck on his own up front, with balls pump up to you as if you were Rene Howe time and time again.....not sure even Winnall or Hogan would be in double figures with that service

Hawley has been bad but no worse than say Benyon. At least Hawley can control a football and doesn't trip over it. What we have lacked all season is pace, especially up front. Cameron and Goodwin have added extra firepower because they force full-backs to defend deeper. If you're a centre-half playing against Hawley then you can press higher up the pitch because you know he's not going to turn and outrun you. But if you're playing against a quick forward you can't afford to take that chance. Downes has always struggled against quick players and he's no different to most lower-league defenders.

ferrarilover wrote:That would be Championship bound Winnall and £300,000 (and wages to match) Madden compared with free transfer Hawley?

Matt.

You prove your opposing point here, Matt. Karl is supposedly on a decent chunk of wages for us, wouldn't you happily pay that bit more for a striker who gets the ball in the net? Especially if he ends up being sold for a tidy profit.

Instead, we have a player who has done naff all, happily accepts his pay check and will disappear at the end of the season, hopefully.

I don't buy the midfield argument. Every week, I see teams come to us and create absolutely nothing (see workd record holders Scunthorpe United, among many), yet their strikers manage to turn one vague half chance into a goal.
I've seen Plymouth half a dozen times this year and their midfield is no better than ours. It's not like watching Xavi and Iniesta strut about the place. What they've got is Championship quality Reuben Reid to make the most of what little they do manage to create.

The difference yesterday was that Scunny have a player carotene of smashing home a pen and we don't. Nothing to do with the quality of their football, just that they've got a real striker.
We've lost 11 games 1-0. If we had a striker who had scored 11 goals this season, we'd have 11 more points and we'd not be in the drop zone (if he scored in all the right games).

We haven't had a decent striker since Tim. We masked this by being shit in our first year, scoring loads of goals from midfield and being extremely tight at the back the next couple of years, having Eunan and Bobby the year after that and getting Knill in to stave off relegation last year. This year, we've not had any of that, so our crashing inability to score goals has caught up with us.

If we'd have spent £70k on a 20-a-season striker instead of [**** useless] Bodin, we'd be just fine now.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote:We haven't had a decent striker since Tim. We masked this

I see what you did there

Sills wasn't decent at this level, though. He was outstanding in the Conference but failed to make the cut in the Football League - which is why Buckle dispensed of his services midway through the first season after promotion along with the likes of Hargreaves and Todd - all vital in our Conference years. Hargreaves needs to take a leaf out of Buckles's book and show a ruthless steak this summer when it comes to the retained list.

hector wrote: But our forward line is shocking, as, is our midfield. However, look at how much more threatening Coulthirst was yesterday. He looked more dangerous in that 80 minutes or however long it was, than Benyon and Hawley have looked all season and that is with the same midfield behind him. Our forwards are dire - the worst I have seen at Plainmoor since the days of Byng and Laight starting together.

Whoever got Benyon back needs to be sacked if he's still at the club. Hawley did his best yesterday and played quite well and the system suited him as the ball was on the ground and being passed. The biggest but is, he has not got the legs he had and it was a big mistake by Knill if he was that good he would not be here. Hope he has no problems recovering.

I also side with the argument that our scoring problems stem from further back.

The thing with Hawley is he scored 11 goals at L1 level last season - that's a decent return and a good prospect for us, even more so when you take into account it was for a struggling side. With those stats, he should have been more than good enough for us.

Either what has happened is we have completely not grasped how Hawley likes to play football, or he has failed to communicate to our players, management etc what we need to do to get the best out of his game. I have seen a few games where I've thought he's worked hard, held the ball up well but been completely isolated and ineffective.

Our midfield is so so poor on the ball, that 99% of the time we are humping it long to Hawley, who does a half decent job of holding it up. Thing is, none of Mansell, Lathrope or Harding were ever going to bomb on and get into attacking positions, and our wingers have been just as bad as well. A Eunan O'Kane would have been ideal here for getting forward - after all, we looked fine a few years ago with Eunan playing in behind a lumbering, immobile Gritton.

I'd hope that in whatever we look like next season, we spend a bit more money (as much as we can) as an experienced midfielder who isn't afraid to put his foot on the ball. Quicksilver wingers are ten-a-penny at bigger clubs, and the free agent market will be awash with them. Forward players could well be brought in on loan (and long term, none of this month here, month there nonsense), but someone who can play a pass is essential.

stefano wrote: Ditto. That was exactly my thought when I read it and am glad I scrolled on down to find that somebody else had put word for word what I was thinking.

As I've said previously, we've signed A LOT of young strikers from academies further up the leagues this season. Are we expected to believe they're actually all rubbish? Or is there a chance that despite reasonable possession in games, we simply don't make enough, decent chances? I'm inclined to think that is most likely. Indeed, it's what my eyes have told me.

Unbelievable that some fans think Hawley is a good footballer at this level. He wouldnt get into most conference south teams. I don't f ing care if he got 30 f ing goals last season, for us he is one of the worst number 9's we have ever had.

He cant head the ball, can't beat a player, can't shoot, hahaha would be good to see an actual shot from the guy, has no tricks, has f*ck all!!!

If he is our main striker next year I'm gonna create a thread on here half way through next season and we shall see who is right!

cambgull wrote: You prove your opposing point here, Matt. Karl is supposedly on a decent chunk of wages for us, wouldn't you happily pay that bit more for a striker who gets the ball in the net? Especially if he ends up being sold for a tidy profit.

Instead, we have a player who has done naff all, happily accepts his pay check and will disappear at the end of the season, hopefully.

My only point is that we're not comparing like with like. That's like paying 12 grand for a brand new Honda, then complaining that next door's Bentley has more toys. Well, yes, it would have, wouldn't it.

Nothing would please me more than to see Torquay sign some superstar striker to transform the team and give us 25 or 30 goals next season. But since we haven't got £300,000 to blow on Madden or, probably, the £500,000 it would cost to see off the other suitors (plus, probably, about 8 grand a week for three years), I don't think we'll be seeing either of the present Scunthorpe front two at Plainmoor any time soon (and, in reality, given the consummate ease with which they were both marshalled by a couple of centre backs playing for the lowest ranked team in the FL, I'm not sure I'd want them.)

Matt.