Boardroom, Who does what?

[ferrarilover]

The question is a fair enough one (it carries absolutely no merit, but in and of itself it's not an unfair question), it's all the bollocks that then comes with it.
The Board portrayed as a bunch of toffs, swanning about on holiday while the 'average supporter' scrabbles about in the dirt hoping for a grum or mealworm.

Quite aside from the fact that people's personal wealth is to be applauded, not derided, I fail to see what difference it makes.

Would you rather our Board were worth £20,000 between them? How do you imagine that going? If we have available to spend literally what we earn and no more. Players on £50/week, no groundsman, no staff, offices closed except on Saturday.

Of equal invalidity is the idea that 'football supporters' are all hacking along on minimum wage. Bloke I stand with misses a dozen games a season because he's busy spending his 6-figure salary on skiing holidays and expensive champagne. Another now has a box on a season ticket because he can't stand for 90 minutes anymore.

I suspect that Budderz replies to posts criticising the Board for the same reason that I swim against the endless tide of nonsense which seems to spew forth against the club as a whole. He knows things which the average Joe doesn't and so he speaks from a position of knowledge rather than blind assumption and ignorance.
Of course, it's never popular, because it's not what people want to hear. It's like Dacid Cameron telling us that merely closing the borders won't magically cure the country's ills. It's much easier to believe that Farage prat who proposes just hoofing out all the darkies and hoping for the best. Playing up to people's prejudices in ignorance is much easier than challenging them in knowledge. Much easier just to ignore 'the people' and keep doing the right thing anyway.

You and I are not in possession of the full facts. We never will be. The thing is that we're in the Donald Rumsfeld position. Some of us understand that there are "known unknowns" and some of us don't. Those who don't are always the most vociferous, preferring to shout and presume than remain silent and think.

Why wasn't Knill sacked in October? Because the Board have more to consider than simply 'we aren't winning, let's sack the manager'. When I say more things, I don't mean one or two, I mean hundreds or thousands of permutations to consider.

Ultimately, those who know everything will blame whatever is actually to blame. This won't be popular (like I care) but from what I know, I'm blaming (blaming is the wing word) some bloody rotten luck (cumulative over more than just this season). No, we haven't helped ourselves at times with some of the stupid goals we've conceded and some of the chances we've missed, but those too, abstractly, could also be attributed to circumstances miles outside the control of anyone at Torquay United.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I wouldn't dream of giving his name away as he prefers a certain amount of anonymity; each season he puts money into the club in a variety of ways, match sponsorship etc etc. He doesn't live in Exmouth, but has a holiday home here at Sandy Bay caravan park on the outskirts of the town.

Thankyou for answering that Budleigh.

[DTG]

FL's posting that it 's not really the Boards fault because they are very busy and have lots of things to think about that are obviously way more complicated for us plebby little fans to understand. We should therefore shutup and run along......but pay money to these hardworking geniuses without complaint or input. What a load of complete bollox. There are many fans of TUFC who have more Business, Marketing, CRM, HR, PR etc experience than our current crop of failures. We have been warning of the problems for several years, we haven't just started to comment after the event. The warnings have been ignored even tho our voices got louder. It has now led to the very place we told you it would........and yet we're to blame for not being real supporters. Feckin priceless arrogance and representative of the utter amateurism at the club supported by sychophants who are to blame. No amount of pathetic spin can change the facts (yes FL a fact) that we are non league from top to bottom. Sack this Board and appoint one fit for purpose. Over to you Thea, please be ruthless and show Baker and Phillips the exit today!

[DTG]

So, who should Thea keep and which ones should be asked to step down? Obviously the Bristow family stay, without them we are screwed but they need proper people with the correct skills to move the club forward. Alex Rowe gets a pass. Andrew Candy has done a sterling job considering the constraints he has put up with. What about the rest? Can anyone tell me what value Palk, Hayman, the Boyce's et al bring to the table.......not a dig, I would like to know. What experience and influence have they had over the last few years, What have they done to try and prevent the current situation? Baker and Phillips (I am sick of talking about these clueless idiots) get them out NOW!. What about the less known Members? Do they bring money and expertise or are they just padding?

So, come on FL and you other smug apologists for failure. Tell us, what do these people do and why are they on the Board?

[Silvergull]

So, who should Thea keep and which ones should be asked to step down? Obviously the Bristow family stay, without them we are screwed but they need proper people with the correct skills to move the club forward. Alex Rowe gets a pass. Andrew Candy has done a sterling job considering the constraints he has put up with. What about the rest? Can anyone tell me what value Palk, Hayman, the Boyce's et al bring to the table.......not a dig, I would like to know. What experience and influence have they had over the last few years, What have they done to try and prevent the current situation? Baker and Phillips (I am sick of talking about these clueless idiots) get them out NOW!. What about the less known Members? Do they bring money and expertise or are they just padding?

So, come on FL and you other smug apologists for failure. Tell us, what do these people do and why are they on the Board?

It is less 'who should we keep' and more who would wish to invest personal wealth to replace them. Regardless what anyone here thinks, Torquay United limited is a less than attractive proposition unless you're a fan. When the consortium took over from Bateson, they were made up of the most successful business people in Torbay who happened to be fans.

If it helps, I understand the structure of the business allows anyone to be voted into the board if they invest the trigger amount. Therefore I assume you'll be investing the required thousands upon thousands of pounds, and then utilising your clear marketing and business expertise for expenses only.

Like him, hate him or consider him over paid, what we lack now is a Colin Lee styled 'football' man. Our board, Thea aside, know how to run a standard business, but lack any expertise in the football side. That's where we struggle. Changing personel at the top won't help as even if there's someone willing to take their place, we'll still lack this.

Personally I'd reach out to Warnock as a contractor.

[DTG]

Silvergull, the difference is that if I had the money to join the Board I would hire professionals to do the jobs required not clowns who do it for free.......ah that's right, they're not free are they, they cost us our League status and hundreds of thousands of pounds in lost revenue! The old adage that you pay peanuts and get monkeys has never been so true.

As a potential Investor I wouldn't touch TUFC with bargepole. As a fan Investor I wouldn't expect to see a return but couldn't possibly hand over my money to the likes of Baker and Phillips. I would want to see a professionally run outfit with clear Leadership before even considering it. And there lies the problem.

[hector]

The question is a fair enough one (it carries absolutely no merit, but in and of itself it's not an unfair question), it's all the bollocks that then comes with it.
The Board portrayed as a bunch of toffs, swanning about on holiday while the 'average supporter' scrabbles about in the dirt hoping for a grum or mealworm.

Quite aside from the fact that people's personal wealth is to be applauded, not derided, I fail to see what difference it makes.

Would you rather our Board were worth £20,000 between them? How do you imagine that going? If we have available to spend literally what we earn and no more. Players on £50/week, no groundsman, no staff, offices closed except on Saturday.

Of equal invalidity is the idea that 'football supporters' are all hacking along on minimum wage. Bloke I stand with misses a dozen games a season because he's busy spending his 6-figure salary on skiing holidays and expensive champagne. Another now has a box on a season ticket because he can't stand for 90 minutes anymore.

I suspect that Budderz replies to posts criticising the Board for the same reason that I swim against the endless tide of nonsense which seems to spew forth against the club as a whole. He knows things which the average Joe doesn't and so he speaks from a position of knowledge rather than blind assumption and ignorance.
Of course, it's never popular, because it's not what people want to hear. It's like Dacid Cameron telling us that merely closing the borders won't magically cure the country's ills. It's much easier to believe that Farage prat who proposes just hoofing out all the darkies and hoping for the best. Playing up to people's prejudices in ignorance is much easier than challenging them in knowledge. Much easier just to ignore 'the people' and keep doing the right thing anyway.

You and I are not in possession of the full facts. We never will be. The thing is that we're in the Donald Rumsfeld position. Some of us understand that there are "known unknowns" and some of us don't. Those who don't are always the most vociferous, preferring to shout and presume than remain silent and think.

Why wasn't Knill sacked in October? Because the Board have more to consider than simply 'we aren't winning, let's sack the manager'. When I say more things, I don't mean one or two, I mean hundreds or thousands of permutations to consider.

Ultimately, those who know everything will blame whatever is actually to blame. This won't be popular (like I care) but from what I know, I'm blaming (blaming is the wing word) some bloody rotten luck (cumulative over more than just this season). No, we haven't helped ourselves at times with some of the stupid goals we've conceded and some of the chances we've missed, but those too, abstractly, could also be attributed to circumstances miles outside the control of anyone at Torquay United.

Matt.

You don't half spout some nonsense. To suggest this season is just down to 'bad luck' is just so ridiculous a point of view that it is barely worthy of a reply because every other single forum reader, other than you, will realise that being 5 points adrift is nothing to do with bad luck - not over a 46 game season.

Bad decisions have been made. Endless ones. That is not bad luck - it is poor judgement. There have been far too many of those to list but it has absolutely nothing to do with bad luck. I'm glad the match went the way it did yesterday. It finally showed our appalling team up for what it is, and has been, all season. Hopefully, pretty much all of them will, in some way or another, be out of the club, or at least on their way out.

And simply because you happen to mingle with two wealthy fans does not alter the more likely demographic of lower-paid, supporters struggling to make ends meet. In fact you do not even have to be low-paid to be struggling in Cameron's Britain but that is beside the point.

As for sacking Knill in October? It was a no-brainer. The club got it wrong. They dithered and they dallied and they got it so terribly wrong and it has cost us hundreds of thousands of pounds and our league status.

[Bobbytanz]

What an amusing read some of the inane posts on this particular topic are !!! Let's all have a go at the board! They are useless and should all leave the club or at least apologise for the demise ! Get real people it ain't gonna happen !

Questions to those witting on such as FL and Austrian

Do u know the board members personally ?
Have you talked to them about the issues you raise here or is it more your style to hide behind social networks ?
Put your money where your mouth is

Yes I know Budleigh seems to defend the board and he has no agenda I can assure you? He is close to a few of them but trust me he and the board members I know where hurting big time yesterday and through the season.

I have some issues with certain board members who revel in the glory of the club acting all high and mighty but that how people are !

The blame game is a great one and whose faults is it we went down well the players for a start, the inept management and yes the board could have been more dynamic but that costs and we aren't the richest club in the world ! We could have good hell for leather on the money front and then the club would probably be heading into mine or or one of my fellow insolvency professionals hands


Could be worse we could be gas heads !

[AustrianAndyGull]

Who **** cares anyway? They don't.

All I know is that we are now a non league club and yet we are still paying the same ticket prices as last year.

Whether we can afford it or not - ticket prices have to be reduced. It is the fair and decent thing to do.

Whether you are a businessman or a clown in a suit on the board - it is the fair and decent thing to do.

Either plug the gap with your own cash to make up for the abhorrent decisions you have made, get your fingers out of your arses and get some alternative funding or take the hit and see our club struggle at the foot of the table again next year. Or piss off for good and we can try and get others in who see us as fans and not herds of fresians to be rounded up every matchday and led up to the milking parlour.

The time has come to show us that we are valued and not just worthy of a free programme or a £5 voucher if you went to Morecambe last season (Morecambe meanwhile just gave away free match tickets to all and who have a smaller crowd than us and smaller finances but who oddly enough are still in the football league).

Do the decent thing board and charge fans a reasonable and fair amount for watching conference football or until you do or some of you bail out then I can't be bothered to go and watch us anymore home or away. I, like others have invested so much time, money and effort into trying to get to games and I just feel totally laughed at by the club. It's just not worth it anymore unless everyone at the club can understand that there has to be give and take and not just take.

Please do go and find something else to do on matchdays next season, Dave (forever) you have been totally right all along and i'll miss going to games so much I will cry but I can't support people who don't give two shits about the one thing that keeps them in business. The fans. No fans and no club. These idiots are consigning the club to history whilst we are supposed to accept it and pay with our money and our emotions. You know what, if us fans carried on going as normal anyway then they'd still find a way of leaving this club on the verge of extinction so save yourself the cash and hassle and go and play golf or something.

I'm going to spend my weekends with the family, I might go and watch the odd game at Sheffield FC and Chesterfield, go and watch cricket and save myself some mileage on the car as well as diesel and childcare too. In fact it's a weight lifted if I'm honest. I can't believe I've put my family through what I have these past 5 years just so I can support a club whose board treat us with contempt.

Ditch Plainmoor until the club do the decent thing and if we don't have a club left then we hold our heads high knowing we did the right thing and those of us who wish to be involved in a new club can start afresh like Darlo or Scarborough. That's the way we're heading anyway with this lot at the helm.

I've had enough of being ripped off and feeling like I am a revenue stream and not a fan with feelings and expectations. It's disgusting.

No more shirts, scarves, clothing or accessories for me and the little one. No more life disruption to not only see us lose but to also get ripped off for the privilege and at home games 'enjoy' one of the worst all round matchday experiences I think I've seen. (Someone gets paid for creating these would you believe?)

No more games home and away and no more being taken for a total mug. I'm out.

Please feel free to post the usual shit about being there through thick and thin and i'll just laugh and feel sympathy because you are perfectly content playing into their hands. If we lost a hundred games on the spin I'd probably still go, if we did that and got relegated I'd probably still go - if the club didn't reduce ticket prices to reflect a catastrophe of relegation and the fact that we will be playing non league inferior opposition then I'd stop going. It's not about the football - that is a variable nobody can predict or control. It's about doing what is right by the fans.

Enjoy next season. What a **** mess. What a total joke.

[AustrianAndyGull]

What an amusing read some of the inane posts on this particular topic are !!! Let's all have a go at the board! They are useless and should all leave the club or at least apologise for the demise ! Get real people it ain't gonna happen !

Questions to those witting on such as FL and Austrian

Do u know the board members personally ?
Have you talked to them about the issues you raise here or is it more your style to hide behind social networks ?
Put your money where your mouth is

Yes I know Budleigh seems to defend the board and he has no agenda I can assure you? He is close to a few of them but trust me he and the board members I know where hurting big time yesterday and through the season.

I have some issues with certain board members who revel in the glory of the club acting all high and mighty but that how people are !

The blame game is a great one and whose faults is it we went down well the players for a start, the inept management and yes the board could have been more dynamic but that costs and we aren't the richest club in the world ! We could have good hell for leather on the money front and then the club would probably be heading into mine or or one of my fellow insolvency professionals hands


Could be worse we could be gas heads !

What absolute bollocks. All I want is the board to do the right things by the fans, reduce ticket prices to reflect how shit we are, how shit we've been and what league we are currently in. Then I want them to offer us some incentives to keep coming back to Plainmoor other than the arrogant shit Rowe came out with about us rallying round as usual and helping plug the deficit.

What they do aside and how much they put in aside, the measures above are morally correct if not from a business sense.

You lot and you're condescending attitude about being in the know and all this rubbish is stomach churning. You all deserve one another.

Check ebay for shirts and stuff because I've **** well and truly had enough of communicating with people who are right up their own arses claiming they are the oracle and know 'things'. Done a lot of good hasn't it - people's knowledge - we're back in the conference. Even to the point of some people saying the board listened to the fans when we wanted Ling out and Knill out. If the board listened to anything then it's certainly not the fans.

As a fan I want to be treated with respect and consideration. If you don't then that's your lookout. Keep making the excuses. It's not asking the earth, it's human decency and an organisation looking out for it's customers and doing the right thing. We have a board (a few exceptions) who do the opposite and when organisations do this to the point where customer confidence is battered then customers go elsewhere.

This is so brutal to myself and my own emotions but I'm doing the latter. I can't forgive them and it's not about the football. It's about my sense of self worth and I'm going elsewhere from now on. Enjoy being ripped off left right and centre and enjoy being led by these people. Inane it is, totally correct - and I thought you were supposed to be the intelligent ones.

A truly sad day for me. Regards.

[Silvergull]

Who f**king cares anyway? They don't.

All I know is that we are now a non league club and yet we are still paying the same ticket prices as last year.

Whether we can afford it or not - ticket prices have to be reduced. It is the fair and decent thing to do.

Whether you are a businessman or a clown in a suit on the board - it is the fair and decent thing to do.

Either plug the gap with your own cash to make up for the abhorrent decisions you have made, get your fingers out of your arses and get some alternative funding or take the hit and see our club struggle at the foot of the table again next year. Or piss off for good and we can try and get others in who see us as fans and not herds of fresians to be rounded up every matchday and led up to the milking parlour.

The time has come to show us that we are valued and not just worthy of a free programme or a £5 voucher if you went to Morecambe last season (Morecambe meanwhile just gave away free match tickets to all and who have a smaller crowd than us and smaller finances but who oddly enough are still in the football league).

Do the decent thing board and charge fans a reasonable and fair amount for watching conference football or until you do or some of you bail out then I can't be bothered to go and watch us anymore home or away. I, like others have invested so much time, money and effort into trying to get to games and I just feel totally laughed at by the club. It's just not worth it anymore unless everyone at the club can understand that there has to be give and take and not just take.

Please do go and find something else to do on matchdays next season, Dave (forever) you have been totally right all along and i'll miss going to games so much I will cry but I can't support people who don't give two shits about the one thing that keeps them in business. The fans. No fans and no club. These idiots are consigning the club to history whilst we are supposed to accept it and pay with our money and our emotions. You know what, if us fans carried on going as normal anyway then they'd still find a way of leaving this club on the verge of extinction so save yourself the cash and hassle and go and play golf or something.

I'm going to spend my weekends with the family, I might go and watch the odd game at Sheffield FC and Chesterfield, go and watch cricket and save myself some mileage on the car as well as diesel and childcare too. In fact it's a weight lifted if I'm honest. I can't believe I've put my family through what I have these past 5 years just so I can support a club whose board treat us with contempt.

Ditch Plainmoor until the club do the decent thing and if we don't have a club left then we hold our heads high knowing we did the right thing and those of us who wish to be involved in a new club can start afresh like Darlo or Scarborough. That's the way we're heading anyway with this lot at the helm.

I've had enough of being ripped off and feeling like I am a revenue stream and not a fan with feelings and expectations. It's disgusting.

No more shirts, scarves, clothing or accessories for me and the little one. No more life disruption to not only see us lose but to also get ripped off for the privilege and at home games 'enjoy' one of the worst all round matchday experiences I think I've seen. (Someone gets paid for creating these would you believe?)

No more games home and away and no more being taken for a total mug. I'm out.

Please feel free to post the usual sh*t about being there through thick and thin and i'll just laugh and feel sympathy because you are perfectly content playing into their hands. If we lost a hundred games on the spin I'd probably still go, if we did that and got relegated I'd probably still go - if the club didn't reduce ticket prices to reflect a catastrophe of relegation and the fact that we will be playing non league inferior opposition then I'd stop going. It's not about the football - that is a variable nobody can predict or control. It's about doing what is right by the fans.

Enjoy next season. What a f**king mess. What a total joke.

I have no idea where to even begin with this post, so I'll start with the obvious one for now. Lowering ticket prices.

I've seen this, a lot. All I can ask is if you've done detailed price elasticity modelling on the ticket prices. Do you have quant analysis in to the loyalty of consumers buying season tickets against those that'll return through the gates at plainmoor if we start winning.

My assumption is those in charge have done both of those things. I suspect (and history shows) altering ticket prices won't help. With continued increased on the cost of overheads, the rapid inflatory cost of footballers wages, holding the cost of the season ticket is the best the club could ever afford to do.

Lowering ticket prices won't suddenly see an uptake. Poor response to early bird tickets previously highlights this. You're just giving away gross margin, with nothing in return.

There's deeper factors other than price that will be behind our low attendances next year.

[AustrianAndyGull]

It doesn't matter. Lowering ticket prices is the RIGHT thing to do on behalf of it's customers given all the circumstances. I don't care if it doesn't work or the business model is flawed or this, that and t'other. It is the decent and right thing to do by the fans and therefore should be done as a mark or respect.

If it proves detrimental to the playing side of things next season then so be it. We were shit this season too although we paid more to see it.

It's about doing what is right and fair regardless of consequences.

[Silvergull]

It doesn't matter. Lowering ticket prices is the RIGHT thing to do on behalf of it's customers given all the circumstances. I don't care if it doesn't work or the business model is flawed or this, that and t'other. It is the decent and right thing to do by the fans and therefore should be done as a mark or respect.

If it proves detrimental to the playing side of things next season then so be it. We were sh*t this season too although we paid more to see it.

It's about doing what is right and fair regardless of consequences.

That is utter garbage.

Let's put it info perspective. Woking FC are probably the most similar club to what you're suggesting. Similar catchment pool to us, albeit with more competition.

Their tickets cost £15, and they probably get about 1800 on average.
Woking are a part time club, who rent out their ground to Hayes for extra revenue. The manager works purely for expenses. They don't have a YTS set up or evening own the training ground. The players, of course are on part time wages.

They'll forever be a conference south / lowered conf prem level. Yet it still costs the fans £15.

The ONLY way Torquay could afford to lower ticket prices and not hit the wall is to go part time, close the YTS and training grounds and commit ourselves to the conference at best. At that point, I imagine you'll moan at the standard of football (part time will be poor) and lack of ambition. You'll then moan at £15 and the vicious cycle continues.

Torbay is hardly full of jobs as it is. With our job market, what is the standard of part time players do you think we can attract?!

The clubs only duty is to ensure we have a structure and playing budget to make us competitive. The ticket pricing structure combined with forecasted uptake combines to build that.

Whatever route, youll always find something to be discontent with. Every January, woking have to hold 'boost the budget' collections to survive. What would your reaction be to being asked to donate about the £15 ticket price to watch a team of plumbers and shelf-stackers?

[AustrianAndyGull]

That is utter garbage.

Ok then, so what about other incentives? Regular freebies that won't hit the club hard but go some way to smoothing over bad feeling. Loads of other businesses do it to keep their customers involved, rewarded and to keep returning.

We've had a free programme and a fiver back if you made the 300 and odd mile trek to Morecambe last season - oh and a pint for those who made the trip to Hartlepool although I never got mine. Football is changing and if the club continue to plod along with antiquated ideas then I hope the hardcore of 1000 or so enjoy the conference for many years to come and also coming on here moaning about how things are done.

What about a desperate plea from the club acknowledging the mess and strong determined ideas and plans to make things better next time around? Everyone to rally round and not just the fans?

Whichever it is there is nothing from the club apart from take, take, take.

Well done for being a loyal supporter anyway.

[taxilady]

[quote="potnoodle"]It's pretty obvious the board want their money back for 'Bristow's Bench'. Why do think the away stand had been shut to away fans this season.[/quote

I thought it was to reduce the cost of stewarding when there might only be less than a hundred in there ? With the lack of uptake of season tickets being predicted , I'm not even sure that Bristow's will be open next season !