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Lots of people saying it's a risk to appeal because the punishment may be increased. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? Is it within the remit of the appeal board to increase punishments? Has there been any examples of increased punishment due to appeal?

yeah i agree with that 4 point thing for hereford, they lost the 3 points gained, kept their +2 gd as far as i know, whereas we lost 3 pts from the game by losing, and -2 gd, AND lost a further point too, still dont think its worth appealling tho, i beleive we're good enough to win 3/4 home games, lose to chesterfield or draw at best? point each at bradford and burton then who knows what v rovrum??

Jerry wrote:Lots of people saying it's a risk to appeal because the punishment may be increased. Does anyone know if this is actually the case? Is it within the remit of the appeal board to increase punishments? Has there been any examples of increased punishment due to appeal?

I do not know if it would be the case that the points deduction would be increased in the event of a failed appeal,what i do know is the points deduction can be increased if any appeal was to fail,thats not saying it would be,same if you appeal player suspensions/red card'sand fines,in most cases the ban or fine are increased in the event of a failed appeal.

All i am saying is why take the risk,when the club has little or no chance of overturning this decision,and the one point deduction,has done little or no damage to our play-off hopes,and only put a minor dent in our chances of a top 3 finish.

Should the team win at Bradford and results go our way,it is possible that with this deduction,we could be with in 3 points of the top three,so why take the risk of incuring an extra 2 point deduction,which could knock us out of the play-off's all together,nor do the team need this hanging over them any longer,like i say,lets put up,shut up and get on with it,the only way forward,really.

I believe in Torquay United. I always have and always will. I believe in our players (on their bad days as well as good) and worship the very ground that they walk on. I believe in our manager (even when his tactics and substitutions make me cry), I believe in our rarely acknowledged coaching staff, I believe in our overworked backroom staff, I believe in our board of directors, and I believe in you, my fellow fan. I love our club as much as is humanly possible, warts and all.

The problem is that I'm struggling to believe in football's governing bodies, and am not convinced that they believe in us, care about us or, dare I say it, respect our sense of fair play. I often see the FA and Football League used interchangeably because no-one's ever quite sure who is responsible for what. There's no transparency, no consistency. This makes the respect word wheeled out ad infinitum in football a bit of a mockery. With the point deduction and coming out of a game with -1 there is no doubt in my mind that we have been treated wrongly. In any other circumstances an appeal would be the appropriate avenue to address this injustice (although more facts may emerge in 7 days to justify our punishment, we'll see... ). However, I feel very strongly that any appeal would leave us once again at the mercy of a capricious panel seemingly answerable to no-one, and no doubt incurring their wrath into the bargain.

Our fate seemingly continues to be intrinsically linked with Hereford's. I sincerely hope this episode doesn't relegate them, or affect our promotion chances. Thankfully we're fighting separate battles at different ends of the table. I genuinely believe that if we join Hereford in appealing we'll be put in our places, literally, with another point taken off Hereford and 2 more taken off us, regardless of the rights and wrongs of this sorry state of affairs.

Dear FA/FL/whoever makes up the rules, please bring transparency, consistency and fair-play back into the game. I want to believe in you, I really do. I'm still keeping the faith but I'm feeling rather disillusioned today.

Fair minded and passionate post. My attitude is

My initial reaction was that it could've been worse - we could've suffered the same fate as Hereford and lost 3 points. However, having heard the views of others and reflected on it this half way house of losing 1 point just doesn't make sense. The most sensible option to my mind would be to make the game null and void by taking the 3 points off the Bulls and adjusting both teams' goal difference accordingly, plus points deduction as penalty and warning to others - in this case 1 point seems fair as it was an honest mistake of timing and no advantage was sought or gained (though it wouldn't surprise me if the powers that be decided to be more heavy handed and dish out a 3 point penalty to make an example of rule breakers).

Surely this rule has been broken before - does anyone know what punishment was handed out, and in the more likely scenario wherer only one team in a match broke the rule, if the offending team won the corresponding match were their opponents given the points in return?

Really the punishment should be set in stone and then everyone would know where they stood, then even if we didn't agree with it at least the bods in charge could point to the rule book and we'd have no basis for complaint.

I'm just echoing what Gulls_aloud said really

Some Hereford fans seem to be arguing that because we both fielded illegible players, no team had an advantage therefore the result should stand and they should keep the points. However in my mind two wrongs do not make a right.
Also they say that it should be the admin error and not the match that was 'on trial'. In my opinion the second both our and their illegible player stepped onto the pitch the validity of the match was called into question.
My biggest issue is why they think that they are such a special case that they don't deserve a points deduction and why they feel so hard done by. As others have said if the FL were more consistent there would be absolutely no cause for complaint. The decision made regarding Accrington has a lot to answer for.
Oh how I shall enjoy my few pints in the local on Saturday night. So much to discuss!

Forgive me if I'm being thick here, but if we've been docked a point for a game in which we gained no points, wouldn't it make more sense for Hereford to be docked 4 points?

chippygull wrote:Fair minded and passionate post. My attitude is

...kin' ell !!! Blue hat, straggly beard,

It's Matt !!!

I don't see the logic of not appealing the decision due to fear of a worse outcome.

Will some slippery b'stard please crawl out the woodwork and explain in common sense logic detail how an unjust decision can be increased ?

Appeal and appeal now TUFC.

ferrarilover wrote: Do you not see that this makes the decision worse?

Matt.

A bit. But not enough. Those thinking Hereford ought to have 4 deducted - As far as I am aware the appropriate regulation only permits 3 max. Our risk is "3 for the same offence committed", as per their Chairman's rantings. Hereford's risk is an increased fine. The Hereford chairman is arguing the right course for his interest. Reckon he ought to take his punishment, as should we. Think that makes me a slippery bastard, though.

Rjc70 wrote:
A bit. But not enough. Those thinking Hereford ought to have 4 deducted - As far as I am aware the appropriate regulation only permits 3 max. Our risk is "3 for the same offence committed", as per their Chairman's rantings. Hereford's risk is an increased fine. The Hereford chairman is arguing the right course for his interest. Reckon he ought to take his punishment, as should we. Think that makes me a slippery bastard, though.

I believe they are called lawyers nowadays.... :~D

Guilty

The following is a press release from Hereford MP Jesse Norman:

Local MP Jesse Norman has weighed in heavily to support Hereford United in its fight against a points penalty imposed by the Football League.

Norman originally wrote to the League in support of the Bulls when it appeared the club might lose points for fielding an ineligible player in its match against Torquay on February 1.

He is now demanding a full public explanation of the decision, and has referred the issue as a matter of urgency to the House of Commons Culture, Media and Sport Select Committee as part of their current Inquiry into Football Governance.

Commenting, Jesse Norman said "This is a very punitive and unfair decision, which comes at a critical time in the season for the Bulls.

"It is wrong for the League to impose such a heavy penalty for a relatively minor error by the club. It is doubly wrong then to let Torquay off with only a single point deduction, when they made exactly the same mistake.

"Football is notorious for the poor quality of its governance, and this looks like yet another dodgy decision. There has been a huge lack of transparency here, and I am particularly concerned that the League's board includes Anthony Kleanthous, who is the Chairman of Barnet, which could stand to gain hugely from a Hereford relegation.

"That's why I have asked the Select Committee to look into this issue as a matter of urgency, and to hold the Football League to account for it in a public hearing."

This what a Hereford fan posted on a Forum I'm on.

They really are abit "special"..

Would be intresting to see if anything did come from this Hereford MP,thing,doubt that it will however.

I still think an appeal will be fruitless,the club is not going to get it's point back,i know there are some(staff)up at the club who are thinking the same way,so whilst i do not know for sure,i strongly believe that an appeal from our club is unlikely,but what i will say if they do chose to appeal they will have my backing,and i am sure of us all.

For me,we have to look at what the real issue is here,the club was on a warning over two clerical error's from last season,no lesson's learnt as this error has cost a very valuable point,and £10k,the club have followed that by turning up 1 hour late at Northampton(not sure we are out of the woods on that one yet)and it appear's that another clerical error has cost the club a deadline day loan signing,the club has just plundered from one furk up to another,pretty embarrasing really.

An appeal will cost time,effort,and even more money that the club can ill afford right now,the club would be better of now using the time money and effort making sure we go into next season,with system's in place so no more error's of this nature happen again,as there is likey to be more loan siging's needed next season.