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Southampton Gull wrote:15 games into a season, a manager given the remit to keep us in the division on such a small budget that the previous manager ran away, and you guys want to sack him. Those are the relevant facts.

I warned about this back in the summer, I predicted a season of struggle and a club having to run on a shoestring budget, so I'm not in the least bit surprised that it's heading that way, maybe some of you fickle lot need a dose of realism, expecting something other than what we're seeing now is nonsense.

Be careful what you wish for.............

Also, you can smokescreen it all you like by saying the remit was 'to keep us in the division'. It was never that. The much publicised 'season of consolidation' does not suggest staying up by the skin of our teeth. Consolidation sounds like mid-table to me.

It's fickle to be calling for a managers head after 15 games, in fact it's actually pathetic. Your whole hysterical reaction is pathetic and whether we finish 22nd or 12th makes no difference in the eyes of those running the club. That is no smokescreen, it's reality, it's reality whether you choose to believe it or not.

Fickle is to change ones mind erratically, so if you never liked the appointment its hardly fickle to continue to take that stance. Personally I agree that its too early to sack a manager...just think your wrong to call people of a different opinion fickle.

Fickle or not though losing is becoming something of a habit and we are bereft of confidence. Everything ISN'T alright and something needs to change.

I'm not trying to make it personal, a number of people on here are adamant the manager should be sacked, I'm certain that a large proportion of them have been happy to sing along to "Martin Lings Yellow Army" so I'd say the literal definition of fickle applies although I do take your point, Hector is just the one that is making the case against what I believe,


Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments;

With the number of fans saying they can't be bothered to make the effort to attend games I'd say the word fickle is pretty accurate. I'm not particularly a fan of Martin Ling, I'll support him for sure, I'm not saying there isn't something wrong with the performances of late, what I am doing is stating it's totally ridiculous to contemplate sacking a manager who is working under the restraints he is. The remit this season is to stay in the division, not mid-table, not play-offs but to stay put, so 22nd spot will be a good job done as far as the Board are concerned.

I'll argue this point with anyone, I don't like it any more than anyone else, who wants to see their team go from play-off finalists to relegation battlers? I don't, but I get why it's happening, some don't, all I'm doing is putting forward reasons why it's happening.

I have a simple yard stick.

Look to the quality and experience on the bench, do we have the players to change a game?

When we use our impact players as regular starters, IMHO,we are already deep in the sh*t.

The board should give him a target for the next 5 games (20 games gone) and also start considering their options should this objective fail.

As it's fastly approaching November 5th, somebody needs a rocket up thier arse, so lets start with the person who has the most influence on the 1st and reserve team performances.

Southampton Gull wrote:I'm not trying to make it personal, a number of people on here are adamant the manager should be sacked, I'm certain that a large proportion of them have been happy to sing along to "Martin Lings Yellow Army" so I'd say the literal definition of fickle applies although I do take your point, Hector is just the one that is making the case against what I believe,


Characterized by erratic changeableness or instability, especially with regard to affections or attachments;

With the number of fans saying they can't be bothered to make the effort to attend games I'd say the word fickle is pretty accurate. I'm not particularly a fan of Martin Ling, I'll support him for sure, I'm not saying there isn't something wrong with the performances of late, what I am doing is stating it's totally ridiculous to contemplate sacking a manager who is working under the restraints he is. The remit this season is to stay in the division, not mid-table, not play-offs but to stay put, so 22nd spot will be a good job done as far as the Board are concerned.

I'll argue this point with anyone, I don't like it any more than anyone else, who wants to see their team go from play-off finalists to relegation battlers? I don't, but I get why it's happening, some don't, all I'm doing is putting forward reasons why it's happening.

So by definition - anyone who - as you put it, 'makes a case against what you believe' is fickle or pathetic. Should I call you names because you are making a case 'against what I believe'?

No, I am a little more reasoned and use facts to back up my argument, rather than an aggressive, 'I know best' point of view. I disagree with you and I have good reason to. So far you have failed to offer any real reasonable reason why we should have confidence in a manager, who you can count the amount of times he has won football matches in the last year on one hand.

Not sure how you can call what I've written as aggressive, I didn't call you names, I used the words fickle and pathetic which I attribute to people who want to sack a manager after 15 games in charge. Pretty simple to understand really.

Southampton Gull wrote:Not sure how you can call what I've written as aggressive, I didn't call you names, I used the words fickle and pathetic which I attribute to people who want to sack a manager after 15 games in charge. Pretty simple to understand really.

Not sure how wanting a change in manager is fickle. Impatient perhaps, but not fickle unless one was saying how wonderful Ling was a few weeks ago.

There were however, plenty who had reservations about appointing a manager who last job was so appallingly bad. Therefore, based on that and what is happening now, there are very good grounds for thinking that this season would be better with a different manager in charge. Now that is not pathetic. It is realistic. Perhaps the pathetic point of view would be the one of just sitting there, doing nothing and hoping things will change.

Do you think the Club can afford to pay off the manager and his assistant and then finance another manager and assistant?

Is that realistic?

Is it realistic to expect a kneejerk reaction from the Board after what is only a brief run of poor results?

Would it be pathetic of the Board to stand by the decision they made to appoint Martin Ling?

Can they afford it anymore than the loss of gate income that the sorry performances will bring about? The potential loss of league status, and associated funding streams, that you suggest we should gamble with by waiting 'a bit longer' before they act?

Attendances will dip just as they always do at this time of year and the fact that you choose the word "gamble" is appropriate to either persisting with Ling or dismissing him, the cheaper option was chosen in the summer and I dare say will still be chosen now.

Think i've agreed with everything Southampton Gull has had to say on the matter!

Still to early to be sacking anyone. Having a bad run, but we have played some very good sides. Reset your aspirations all, players have to bed in and i doubt the threatening fan atmosphere is helping them get out of the rut.

I remain... COYY

Trojan 67 wrote:As long as tomorrow's result doesn't turn the negative waves into a storm, then I'll be happy.

Some couldn't even wait until the game was over before posting their negative comments, especially the poster called neal.

Table after 14 games from 2009/10 season . . .
http://www.torquayunited.com/page/Leagu ... 24,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same season after 32 games . . .
http://www.torquayunited.com/page/Leagu ... 23,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Same season after 38 games . . .
http://www.torquayunited.com/page/Leagu ... 27,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Final League 2 Table 2009/10 season . . .
http://www.torquayunited.com/page/Leagu ... 08,00.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;


To those of no faith, little faith and of a seriously negative condition, you are getting on my f'cking nerves.

Ding ding round two - Hector v Dave live on torquayfans.com! Trojan is probably right we just have to give it time. I posted a lot of negative stuff after the southend defeat only because the manner of performances i have seen this season are unacceptable for people paying hard earned money to watch the tripe that the players are churning out every week. Theyre not Barcelona but they are professionals and should play like that. I feel it unjust that i have to work hard to pay overpriced ticket prices as it is and then you get that , no effort or players earning their money like the rest of us do. It just gets on my tits as if footballers are excused from hard work because of who they are. I still believe Ling will take us down but lets see what happens in November. If we don't beat Hereford next week however he must leave straight after that game.

austrianandygull wrote:Ding ding round two - Hector v Dave live on torquayfans.com! Trojan is probably right we just have to give it time. I posted a lot of negative stuff after the southend defeat only because the manner of performances i have seen this season are unacceptable for people paying hard earned money to watch the tripe that the players are churning out every week. Theyre not Barcelona but they are professionals and should play like that. I feel it unjust that i have to work hard to pay overpriced ticket prices as it is and then you get that , no effort or players earning their money like the rest of us do. It just gets on my tits as if footballers are excused from hard work because of who they are. I still believe Ling will take us down but lets see what happens in November. If we don't beat Hereford next week however he must leave straight after that game.

After the 2nd goal at Saffend, I f'cked off from the computer and had an early bath. I did however continue to listen to the game on Radio Devon.

After a defeat, I'm as negative as the next sad b'stard. The difference being I get out on a Saturday night and don't post owt until I've sobered up.

By that time the negative waves have done their worst while I have done my best.


:devil: o:)