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yellow wrote:Troj me old horse.

People sign up to contracts of employment. Some are fairer than others. Your own perspective is obviously informed by bitter experience. That doesn’t make it right.

There is great inequality between the best and the worst contracts. I didn’t say life was fair did I?

I take your point about caring society. It was, I have to confess, a bit tongue in cheek.

"Don't get mad, get even"

Yella, me o' mate, my perspective is informed by harsh experience, not bitter experience.

"Don't get bitter, get better"



I know it was tongue in cheek as opposed to head up arse and now I'm back fit in the trench . . . . . .

"All is quiet on the western font"

The facts are:

He is/was ill.
As a result he was unable to continue to work
He has been signed off work
He is now deemed fit enough to return to work

The rumours have ranged from Ling having Parkinsons, to a drinking problem, with numerous other illnesses in between. He has been deemed either a god amongst men or a crap manager who should have been sacked.

Many on here want him (Ling) sacked (which of course will mean compensation) and replaced by, amongst others, Juan Knill, a man who had "many contacts" in the game and yet managed to bring two loanees in during that time - whether he had tried and failed to get others in is beside the point - for all we know Ling could have been trying to do the same before he fell ill.

Juan has managed to, almost, preserve our league status. He got the team playing the way many wished they had been playing for the majority of the season, yet the fact remains we still struggled to win games, and still are not safe from relegation going into the final game of the season.

The team needs, and no doubt will have, an overhaul in the close season. We have many players out of contract which should free up wages, yet the fact remains we still have a small transfer budget and will, probably, still struggle to attract the players we, as supporters, long for.

I can't comment on the type of players Juan would try to bring to the club as we simply don't know the type of contacts he has - lets face it we can't judge him on his ability to bring in loanees due to the fact that it was a rather impossible task given our league position.
We do, however, know the type of players that Ling would attract and he has got a good record of bringing in good players at this level (Bodin aside of course - it is not Lings fault that he has had a poor season and nobody could have predicted this at the start if it. Nobody can doubt his quality based on last season though).

The club are in a difficult position - if we do get rid of Ling then we will have to spend money that we could use for players, but keep him and we may end up sacking him anyway and still being in the position of having to find the money during the season when it would be harder to attract players.

Better the devil you know or the devil you don't - I'm glad its not MY decision (and glad its not some other people on here that have to make the decision too, judging by their posts on here!!)
Either way, its going to be a thankless task!!

PlainmoorRoar, how is my previous post a defence of Martin Ling? It is if anything a defence of fairness and proper procedure.

Assertions should be distinguished from proven facts by backing up what is said with sources and citations. If that cannot be done on a public forum, then likewise, assertions should not be passed off as facts on that same forum.

Whatever the facts, or the truth, of a particular case, a 'defendant' (in this case Martin Ling) still has a right to proper procedure and fair judgement in an open 'court', free of rumour and prejudice.

Therefore, since this topic is being discussed on an open forum, PMs are quite inappropriate. It's like asking a jury to decide a case whilst the evidence is withheld from them..

Gullscorer wrote:PlainmoorRoar, how is my previous post a defence of Martin Ling? It is if anything a defence of fairness and proper procedure. You should distinguish between assertions and proven facts by backing up what you say with sources and citations. If you cannot do that on a public forum you should likewise not try to pass off assertions as facts on that same forum.

But whatever the facts, or the truth, of a particular case, a 'defendant' (in this case Martin Ling) still has a right to proper procedure and fair judgement in an open court, free of rumour and prejudice. Therefore, since this topic is being discussed on an open forum, PMs are quite inappropriate. It's like asking a jury to decide a case in the absence of the evidence..

Completely agree. Some folk on here cannot distinguish between rumours, assertions, facts and opinions. In many people's "opinion", it would not be good for the club for Martin to come back, that's fine and they are entitled to state that opinion. I would rather this was debated after Saturday, but that is just my "opinion". Some folk are making all kinds of "assertions" about what should happen, carefully ignoring the "FACT" that Martin is an employee of the club who has been off sick for a long time, and is covered by some fairly complex employment legislation with more bear traps than the forests of Canada. Some of the "rumours" on this thread are without much foundation, or at least the writer of the comment is not in possession of the full "facts".

The sad truth for many animal lovers is when they realise their loved and loving pet is to be put down.

As in death, life is harsh.

I've been in the position where my say has deprived individuals of their immediate livelihood. Sack doesn't describe it. Fired/bullet does. When the bullet arrives and it's accurate, the consequences are immediate. What preceded the bullet is called an inspection and test accompanied with a detailed report.

Again, life is harsh.

An inspector just called.

:devil:

The politically correct on here are not correct, politically or otherwise. And are completely off the grid with regard to being accurate.

Those of the opinion who wish Martin Ling gone, keep wishing. Then there's being careful of what is asked for.

What needs to be stated now, is not what's best for Martin Ling or the board or the supporters, but what is in the best interests of TUFC as the whole club and it's supporters moves forward.

Would now be a good time to mention that 'employment contracts' aren't really a thing. No, don't worry, it's not important, pretend I'm not here...

Roar, why PM these facts, why not, if they are indeed facts, post them on open forum (alongside the proof which you will undoubtedly have, given that you are in possession of facts, not rumours)?*

Matt.

*Sounds sarcastic, isn't.

AndyBodinFan . . . . . .

Get back off holiday and back on here and be quick about it Mister! Being your replacement and trying to imitate your stand up comedian act is becoming hard work!

brucie wrote:wodger - thanks but I don't need any advice from you at all. Its a figure of speech (awol) - so whether Martin LIng went awol, went off sick ,had a drink problem, was stressed or whatever he wasn't here.
He left a team that was in a disarray, a cowboy outfit, a team that played turgid football which bored the supporters to death.
A team that couldn't beat anyone (even Harrogate).
He has not been well enough to be anywhere near the team for the past three or four months. Now he is apparently completely cured, but is going to step right back into an environment which isn't going to be any less stressful.
For his own well being is that really the ideal thing to do.

No it's not, look up "figure of speech" in the dictionary. What you have written is universally recognized as short for absent without leave, or at it's strongest it is used to inform that the person has deserted his post. I can't believe that anyone on sick leave would be happy with your statement which would appear to be totally false.

Wodger, why not back off mate, this is a fans open website not a Court of Law. We all use different expressions and Brucie has explained that, he is not arguing or forcing his point with you. I have to agree with some of his comments. We seem nowadays to be expected to except that peoples personal problems (if that is the case) is everyone's problem. When are people going to take responsibility for their own lives, decisions and perhaps mistakes !

coley wrote:Wodger, why not back off mate, this is a fans open website not a Court of Law. We all use different expressions and Brucie has explained that, he is not arguing or forcing his point with you. I have to agree with some of his comments. We seem nowadays to be expected to except that peoples personal problems (if that is the case) is everyone's problem. When are people going to take responsibility for their own lives, decisions and perhaps mistakes !

I said in an earlier post that Brucie had made a good point, but that others are in a better position than us to judge the issue. However, Wodger's 'AWOL' point was equally valid, if somewhat pedantic, and Brucie might have done well to admit that the term he used was not quite appropriate. It might also be as well for us to remember that, when it comes to being afflicted by a serious illness, it is rarely, if ever, due to a lack of responsibility or to decisions or mistakes made.

coley wrote: We seem nowadays to be expected to except that peoples personal problems (if that is the case) is everyone's problem. When are people going to take responsibility for their own lives, decisions and perhaps mistakes !

Exactly - Lings illness is PERSONAL. I don't expect to be told - I simply accept that if we are told he is well again then happy days, let him get on with the job he is paid to do. If it turns out that the club are struggling I would expect either a resignation or a sacking.

It really is that simple.

There are too many people trying to second guess what is wrong with Ling, why are the club not releasing any more information. The problem is a personal one, which is why the club haven't come out and said anything.

Unless we actually know what is wrong with the guy no one is wrong or right. Under this situation, speculation is going to be rife. This is a fans website and the main man's absence is still a total mystery...If you know more please tell ! Also, it is a case of the perception of what is a serious illness and whether it is justified of being regarded as such i.e. self inflicted !!

Until a statement is made no one will now so under these circumstances frustration creeps in.

Alcoholism is an addiction that leads to illness.

Some among us have no sympathy for self inflicted illness.

As for stress, get out of the kitchen before becoming overcome by the heat.