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hector wrote: I'm probably wrong but I thought Cooper's deal took him through next season as well. I probably imagined it.

Like you say - it's not the worst side to have in the Conference, but I think mid-table is more likely for us next year or just below the play-offs...I don't think we will be challenging.

I believe there is an "option" for another year on both sides. Unfortunately that almost certainly means that not only will we not be able to afford him (let's face it we couldn't even in League 2 at the beginning of this season) and on his part I would doubt he would want to drop out of the League at this stage of his career. All depends on what other offers he gets I suppose, but I would have thought it pretty unlikely.

I know what you are saying about our likely prospects for next year (in the Conference) but actually I think we could do quite well. Unlike the last time we went down, there aren't the same powerhouses that there have been over the past few years such as Oxford and Luton. Of course there are still the likes of Grimsby, Wrexham, Lincoln, Cambridge (possibly) and Chester who may (probably do) regard themselves as " big" clubs in that division but they, in the main have all got or at least had some financial difficulties and some of the biggest teams have been down three a good few years now and are still struggling.

Just looking at the League tables and, based on the bookies odds (to determine promotion and relegation), the League would look like this next season ....

Grimsby, Wrexham, Lincoln, Chester, Kidderminster, Aldershot, Barnet, Hereford, Macclesfield, Halifax, Woking, Nuneaton, Forest Green, , Braintree, Salisbury, Welling, Alfreton and Gateshead ... to be joined by Bromley and Eastleigh and AFC Telford and North Ferriby United ??????(thank goodness it's only north and not north and South combined, eh!). To be joined (sadly) by TUFC and one other ... probably not Northampton I would suggest.

Now provided we can keep some sort of stability, which is why I no longer advocate chucking any more of Thea's money at it during what remains of this awful season, I don't think that sort of line up should really fill us with any real dread. Assuming Luton and say Cambridge do go up, the only one of the so called "big" boys in that League who are going really well are Grimsby and it might even be in our interests if they went up rather than Cambridge.

When you look at Barnet being up in the play off spots, who although relegated last year were seemingly fairly stable financially ... more so than the likes of Aldershot, Hereford, Lincoln and Macclesfield when they went out of the League I would suggest ... then I really don't see why with the basis of a reasonable squad (at that level) we couldn't do at least as well, perhaps even better. I would imagine the likes of Chapell could flourish and even young Cameron .... we do need to sort our pitch out though! If we could keep say Lathrope for next season,alongside Harding we would be ok in midfield and a central defensive pairing of Downes and Pearce would be a cut above that standard I would have thought. Clearly one are where we will need to recruit well is up front, although Benyon should be capable of scoring plenty down there, when you consider how many the likes of Rendell (could we even see him back here next season?) have scored this season.

The huge downside, if and when we go down, will be the huge drop in attendances. This season,with the away ends filled to at or near capacity for the likes of Argyle, City, Pompey, Rovers and probably Newport we will probably end up with a relatively healthy average attendance of considerably over 2500. Next season that would drop dramatically, unless perhaps we are challenging at the top and winning games (something we haven't been doing regularly for a couple of seasons) which is why we must throw everything at a quick return and try and get the "feelgood" factor back at TQ1!

A much better performance, and further proof that you cannot build a winning team around inexperienced youngsters; good to see recognition for Harding and Stevens, for me the standout player was Lathrope - calm and composed on the ball and even late on was racing over to cover the very tired looking O'Connor. Well done all the older heads in the team.
Alas Goodwin and Wilkinson showed their limitations, Goodwin missing the goal from six yards, and Bodin showed lack of forethought when not hitting the target (yet again) with the last potentially match-winning kick of the game.

PL21gull wrote:Goodwin missing the goal from six yards, and Bodin showed lack of forethought when not hitting the target (yet again) with the last potentially match-winning kick of the game.

Bit harsh there I would say. Bodin hit the ball well, it curled around the wall leaving the keeper stationary. It just didnt curl in quite enough but it looked like the better option as it was a bit close to goal for a dipper over the wall (needed a bit more distance for that to work)

Good post Chris, you echo many of my thoughts.
After the baffling inept display on Saturday against Accrington last night was an improved performance. Whilst home wins and goals remain elusive and as a result will lead to our inevitable relegation this team showed that there is still some fight in them.
For me for players out of football for a considerable time both Harding and Stevens did a great job in mid-field alongside Lathrope. Harding's whipped in cross for Benyon's diving header showed what he can do and what we've been missing. Given proper service Benyon can still be 'the fox in the box'.
Wilkinson was a big disappointment,looking disinterested. A return to Bolton would be in his best interests. Stockley,if fit, would be a better option. If we keep Goodwin he should play on the right as he has no left foot as his golden opportunity in a one-on-one with the keeper in the first half indicated.
Most concerning was once again the state of the pitch. Seems there was a pitch inspection at 3pm with the ref not too happy. It's certainly not doing us any favours. You only had to read the comments by Goodwin and Chapell in Saturday's programme to understand how it inhibits their running with the ball at defences.
Surprised to see Bodin sent on bearing in mind only days ago it was stated he was out for several weeks. He certainly didn't seem fit even when walking.
As others have said Nico had a fine game and certainly 'turned back the clock' but why are his corners so predictable? Other teams have much better corner routines. Ours only want to seek out Downes/Pearce at the back post.
It's certainly going to take a miracle to stay up and last night's attendance is indicative of what can be expected next season in the lacking sponsor Conference (current sponsors Skrill are pulling out).
It will be a chance for Chris H to rebuild but don't expect Pearce to be there as he's bound to move on,hopefully for a sizeable fee as he will be too good for non-league football.
Whilst I still hope that we will survive it's odds on Northampton won't be joining us but who will?
Anyway my journey home was comforted by the wailing, it's the end of the world, Man Utd 'supporters' saying all is lost after losing 2-0 in the Champions League! Totally filled the airways on TalkSport and Five Live. Bottom of the Football League is pressure!

The annoying thing though is had Hargreaves played anything like the side he did last night we may indeed have won on Saturday. Granted he may not have certain players available on Saturday but to me there are a few things which were obvious to the average supporter and should have been to the manager.

1. Downes should have been brought back two or three games earlier and O'Connor should have been played at right back where he is miles better than Tonge who seems to afford half the pitch to the winger he is suposed to be marking.

2. Benyon is a far better option up front than Hawley. Which player would a League two central defender rather mark? - One who spends ninety minutes facing his won goal and has no pace. Or one who is constantly moving and has tremendous work rate.

3. Stockley has always been a better option than O'Brien/Wilkinson - if Wilkinson did react as reported to being substituted then I hope he is now on his way back to Bolton. Jumped up little prick has played one and a half league games. Who does he think he is. Recall Yeoman instead.

WIth the likes of Poke,O'Connor,Pearce,Downes,Bodin,Stockley,Labardie,Chapple,Harding,Lathrope and Benyon we have the nucleus of a team that shouldn't really be tailed off at the bottom of League 2.

The fact that we are is galling. If we were to win the next five games we would still have a great chance of staying up. Of course for that to happen we would need to stay injury free,produce peformances and have a great deal of luck.

Good post Brucie - agree Downes should be in the team every week. He is prone to the odd lapse but he is a winner in the Guy Branston mode. Would we have beaten Accrington with last night's team? Maybe - but Accrington and Burton play very different football. Accrington are the sort of frustrating side that grinds out a 1 - 0 win, or lose 1 - 0. Burton played more open football - a better footballing side - which gave us more opportunities last night. It's a tough ask but if we can get three points from every two games of the 14 remaining we'd end up with 51 points which should be enough to stay up ..... but I really think we need a minimum of 52 to be sure. Still believing ..... just !

One point from last night's game. Albeit both the referee and the linesman missed the assault on Bodin in the Northampton game, the ref allowed the game to continue although Bodin was clearly in some pain and may well have suffered a serious injury. The rest is history ...... In last night's game, we had possession in the Burton half, a Burton player went down injured (not a foul) and the ref stopped play immediately. Yep - I'm still seething about the Cobblers match. Thought last night's ref had a good game. The handball penalty claim was one of those Alan Hanson 'I've seen them given' incidents. There was a similar handball shout against Nicholson a few games back which the ref didn't give.

Pitch is a major problem at moment and think players will actually look forward to playing away,rather than at home in coming weeks.Somehow though they've got to adapt their play at Plainmoor as the pitch issues aren't going to go away and can only be remedied in the close season.It was rutted with divots all over the place last night-not just in the usual problem areas.

Agreed, good post Brucie. You're not such an idiot after all.. :~D

You do, however, have your blind spots. You omitted to mention the Gulls legend that is Danny Stevens. Once the states of the pitches improve, he will turn out to be one of our main saviours...

It annoys me to hear that the team 'did well' last night and 'they still have some fight in them'.

That's great to hear but we drew at home against an average side and previously lost the two home games before that at sides who are no better than us. We also have only scored more than one goal in a game once in 4 months at Wimbledon. Before that it was at Bury. Sure we can nick 1-0's here and there as we have been doing but if we concede then we don't win. Such form isn't sufficient to sustain a fight for survival. It is still possible and for all we know we could string a couple of wins together and be right back in the mix but the evidence as it presents itself is pretty damning.

We can debate our predicament until the cows come home and get no definitive answer as to why it has all come to this but I am now preferring to look to the future. There is no point in lamenting on what has passed. It is history and we can't do much about it. Now is the time to go to Hartlepool and see what we can get. If we end up going down which I am totally convinced now that we are in my head, then we re-structure as best we can over the summer and look forwards. Ok so financially we will be a lot worse off and people say the crowds will drop which of course they will but we've struggled with crowds for the last 2 seasons in league 2 so it won't be too much of a drop. As someone said in another post, if we end up doing well then the crowds will come back.

I understand that BT Sport now cover the conference so perhaps a tiny bit if tv money although I have no idea about that. In addition the conference will have a lot of once established ex league teams in there like Grimsby, Wrexham, Macclesfield, Barnet, Cambridge, Aldershot and Lincoln which will make it exciting and competitive as well as having some new places to visit like Braintree, Nuneaton, Halifax, Welling, Alfreton and others. It will be a journey once again and we should ideally be looking at comfortably reaching the play offs each year until one year it becomes our turn again. There is no reason why next season should we be in the conference should not turn out to be an enjoyable ride. Of course it could go horribly wrong but why look at it that way. Until it does then we've nothing to worry about. The added bonus is that we won't have to go the world's biggest dosshole Luton.

I'm trying my best here to paint a positive picture. We've all had enough of the club to varying degrees and each of you will choose which path to take with regards next season, each to their own. I'm not going to condemn anybody, I've done that before and first of all it didn't work and secondly I was a bit unfair and thirdly what each of you chooses to do is no business of mine and I shouldn't let it affect me in any way. All I can say is i'll be at as many games as I possibly can next season whatever league we are in, I shall be buying stuff from the club shop and displaying my colours proudly. That won't ever change whilst we exist as a club. I feel it would be a good time for the club to actually start opening up to fans, making them valued and giving them some rewards for their support. The ones offered in the past just won't cut it anymore.

I feel ripped off as a fan like I'm sure we all do at some point. I booked a hotel for the Newport game and got my ticket in the bench too as I wanted to make the effort of getting down to Plainmoor again. Some would say I'm stupid but I'm not stupid enough to actually go should we be totally out of it by then. If that happens then there will be a ticket freebie on here for that game. If we are out of it by that game then I will go to York on the Tuesday night and to Mansfield the last away game of the season to support the tiny number of players who actually deserve it for this season.

I'm going to Hartlepool on Saturday. I will have to go to the usual lengths like driving 40 miles to Doncaster to pick my mum up at 9am, drive back down to Sheffield for the little ones dancing then pay for a taxi for my mum to get back to Chesterfield at £15 whilst I hotfoot it up to the North East. Then i'll have my £20 ticket ready to add to the £60 diesel I will no doubt use over the course of the day. Then I will have to drive back to Chesterfield and then take my mum back to Donny before driving myself back to Chesterfield again. So all in all it will be a mammoth pain in the ass and cost me over a hundred quid just to see us capitulate at the monkey hangers. I am not well off, I am poor but where do I find the cash you may ask. Well put purely and simply I don't pay the bills. Last month BT cut my line for a bit and this month I will be forfeiting my 2 free council tax months because when they come around i'll be paying because I've carried them over. They won't cut my water off because it is a necessary utility so i'll sort that but short of robbing old ladies in the street, if there is a game I can get to then i'll get there. There are no prizes for living frivolously, especially when you have a family but I love going to watch Torquay and that is why it gets me so angry when I see some absolute dire footballers taking the p*ss and a lot of them having to hold back what I really felt about them. They should actually have to do work experience in McDonalds or something. I know they aren't on a great wedge but they should have some respect for their employer and their customers. F*cking joke!

Sorry about that, getting agitated again. Anyway, what I do is nothing compared to those lads who are up at the crack of dawn trawling the motorways, spending their cash and wasting a day to watch some of the absolutely abysmal bullshit we have been served up this season. They still stay until the end and applaud the players thinking they will respond the week after. They never do and it sickens me. If players don't want to play for us then fine but I expect them to earn their wages. This season players have been effectively stealing their earnings.

In the summer we can keep one or two contracted players who have shown something this season. The ones out of contract can leave and close the door behind them and Chris should under NO circumstances be offering contracts to any of them if it has expired.

If we accept relegation and that relegation is just a word then everything is ok. We still play on a Saturday and we still play some decent teams just in the league below. I have accepted it but if we miraculously stay up then I will be absolutely elated. I don't feel the need to be on edge anymore or worry about winning this game or that one because it feels calm. That said, if we get to Wycombe at home on the last day needing something then I will be ABSOLUTELY SH*TTING MYSELF!!!

Keep calm and support Torquay. If we drop to the conference south then yes, the club probably deserve to have no fans and it may quite probably go mammaries up for the club too but otherwise until that happens we crack on yes?

Hartlepool away. Who said league 2 was the place to be?!!

AustrianAntheaGull wrote:
I'm going to Hartlepool on Saturday. I will have to go to the usual lengths like driving 40 miles to Doncaster to pick my mum up at 9am, drive back down to Sheffield for the little ones dancing then pay for a taxi for my mum to get back to Chesterfield at £15 whilst I hotfoot it up to the North East. Then i'll have my £20 ticket ready to add to the £60 diesel I will no doubt use over the course of the day. Then I will have to drive back to Chesterfield and then take my mum back to Donny before driving myself back to Chesterfield again. So all in all it will be a mammoth pain in the ass and cost me over a hundred quid just to see us capitulate at the monkey hangers. I am not well off, I am poor but where do I find the cash you may ask. Well put purely and simply I don't pay the bills. Last month BT cut my line for a bit and this month I will be forfeiting my 2 free council tax months because when they come around i'll be paying because I've carried them over. They won't cut my water off because it is a necessary utility so i'll sort that but short of robbing old ladies in the street, if there is a game I can get to then i'll get there. There are no prizes for living frivolously, especially when you have a family but I love going to watch Torquay and that is why it gets me so angry when I see some absolute dire footballers taking the p*ss and a lot of them having to hold back what I really felt about them. They should actually have to do work experience in McDonalds or something. I know they aren't on a great wedge but they should have some respect for their employer and their customers. F*cking joke!

Hmm, perhaps Man City might be more your thing?

Got to give you that one Nick. o:)

ferrarilover wrote:

If Boots was anything to do with the club, this would be fair comment. As it is, it's compete bollocks and shows you up as a club bashing moron. Still, I'm sure your mother loves you just the way you are.

Matt.[/quote]

I couldn't care less what you think to be honest. If the pub has nothing to do with TUFC then fair enough but I believed it was so my mistake. It is, however, in keeping with the amateur performance and organisation of the team on the pitch.

I wouldn't consider myself a "club bashing moron" but as I've forked out thousands over the years on ST, merchandise and away trips, I think the club are in danger of losing supporters like me who have been continuously let down.

I never expect to see TUFC playing premier league football or winning trophies but I do expect to see competitiveness on the pitch and sadly, in my 25 years of supporting the club I've not even got a handful of promotions to remember. Very little in the way of cup runs and a plethora of relegation fights. Which means for the majority of my supporting life, I've watched a losing team.

Just for a while I'd like to go back to the Rosenior era and watch attacking football between players who actually know what they're doing and who know each other.

If we go down, I won't renew my ST. How many others are thinking the same?

Last night, 1583 people watched the game. How many came from outside Torbay?
I drove down from Stafford, risking my licence because I didn't leave until 4.50pm I could have stayed in a hotel and though sod it but I made the effort.

PS. Was I happy Mansell wasn't playing? Yes
Was I gutted to see Stevens playing after arriving 2 minutes into the game? Yes

Full marks to you for doing that journey and back from Stafford mate. I'm not too far away from Stafford and I wouldn't even have considered it. Especially a night game. I think there are quite a few people who make long journeys to home games, I think Nickbrod is one and there are others who do it fairly regularly.

I think you are right that the club is in danger of losing supporters like you too. I have often felt disenchanted with what I perceive to be a lack of sympathy and lack of gratitude from the club but at the end of the day I go and I spend (mainly away) because I'm a supporter and I love to go. Most of the time the games are total crap and we fork out a small fortune but we choose to continue to go so technically it's our decision. That said, I'd like to see some reward based schemes put in place by the club so supporters who put in can get something back other than perpetuating equine faeces on the pitch. Voucher systems or getting reward cards stamped so that a fan can get a reward for continued support. It may not be much but the gesture may be enough alone to make the disillusioned fan reconsider giving the club another go. The club do implement matchday ticket offers but they are nowhere near enough IMO and in addition they should do something about collecting vouchers when you buy a programme so that when you've collected say 10, you get a free programme. Free catering could be another reward scheme as well as initiatives with the club giving away free merchandise from the club shop. It doesn't have to be a lot, maybe something out of the reduced bin? Run quirky matchday competitions, get fans involved, make them feel part of it and feel like something is being given back or at least the club are seen to be trying to make the matchday experience better for us. At the minute it is turn up, watch a load of sh*t on the pitch, watch someone who has bought a 50/50 ticket plucked out of the audience try and hit the crossbar with a football, watch some more sh*t then trudge out of the ground deflated. There is nothing going on at Plainmoor and if the match is poor then the apathy just continues through to half time because there is nothing to hold your interest. Predictable on and off the pitch.

I'm not bashing the club either but I just feel that there are a vast array of opportunities for the club to make fans feel rich within themselves and wanting to return. If you had a crap meal out you wouldn't go back, if you visited somewhere and it was a rip off then you wouldn't go back, if you stayed in a hotel and it was a nightmare you wouldn't stay there again. Football is changing and quite soon I feel the above will start having a big impact on crowd attendances. If you are consistently watching rubbish football and it being compounded by the whole experience being depressing and dull then at some point you are likely to question why you bother going anymore. I'd like to see some entertaining and innovative ideas brought to the table for next season, they don't have to be anything you'd take to Dragons Den, a lot are pretty obvious I feel and are not being looked into I don't believe.

Anyway, maybe we should all just go and watch Man City instead. :na:

Okay - but be fair Burnham. We all raised our eyebrows when Stevens returned to Plainmoor but you have to admit that he did okay last night. I doubt that he will keep his place in the side when Labadie returns after suspension, but on last night's performance, he's a useful player to have in the squad, don't you agree? Bliddy impressed that you drove down and back from Stafford last night.