Still don't believe the performamces were any better than when Lingy was in charge. 4 wins.... not great. Same players, two loan players which Lingy wasn't afforded.
What are the footballing reasons for his sacking ?
same players - yes.
not better performances? are you joking?
and of course actually scoring (a few)
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Still don't believe the performamces were any better than when Lingy was in charge. 4 wins.... not great. Same players, two loan players which Lingy wasn't afforded.
What are the footballing reasons for his sacking ?
While the stats may not show a better win/loss record under Knill than under Ling, one has to bear in mind that the team was at rock bottom and bereft of confidence when Knill came onboard. You can't turn that around in a couple of matches (indeed, I think you'll find that at the time of the first match under Knill he had been down here for less than 24 hours). Leaving raw results aside, the quality of play under Knill and Brass was leaps and bounds ahead, too.
I didn't want to post at first, but on reading many of the comments on this site I have to add something.
We only have a debt of thanks to Martin Ling for his work put in here. He gave us a marverlous season last time and this season started off fairly well. It was a shame that it seemed to go all pear shaped in the end.
Now with the best will in the world, Martin has been ill with the worst of illness's which he could have for the job he did.
Anyone who ends up with the stress related illness has my utmost sympathy. They have a hard time of it and generally end up suffering a lot of abuse and discrimination over it. They are very often then viewed as being a bit of a risk. it's a shame but unfortunatly that's life.
I don't have many doubts that some members of the board may well have sat there wondering if he was likely to end the same way again. It is an illness that can recurr obviously.
That said and done. I think maybe if a phone call was how he was told maybe it wasn't in the bext taste, but how do you tell someone you don't want them. It is usualy unpleasant. You have to be really tough and seen maybe as a hatchet man to do it ace to face. But if it needs to be done, it should be done with some dignity. I cannot comment on whether we have been honourable in this matter. none of us knows the true facts, only what we have seen as conjecture on here and the permformances on the pitch, which does not put you in the real picture.
We also do not and probably will not know the true nature of the illness. But if Stress can be excasserbated by any alchohol (and this is only rumour not truth) then it can further undermine the case for constuctive dismisal.
I have no doubts that noises will be made and some legal proceedings may well be threatened, But in the end, an out of court settlement will be made and we will be on a fresh road to discovery.
One thing for sure. Unfortunatly MArtin Ling will go away from here with our thanks unlike a certain PB. but I am afraid he may well find it difficult to get work due to the nature of the illness.
I do wish you well Martin. You have been a gentleman and a scholar. May your life bring you much happiness.
Glostergull - an excellent post amonst all the nonsense written. There won't be a court hearing. I do feel sympathy for Ling believe it or not but as you correctly say I fear it maybe difficult for him to get another managers job purely just for the circumstances of the whole scenario which unfolded.
yellowsmiffy wrote:By all accounts from the Bury fans, Knill's strength is his eye for a signing, and building a team. His signing of Labadie was inspired, and I'd love to see who he could bring in given a summer of recruitment.
He likes pacy direct wingers and a creative central player apparently, who doesn't!? Did he have this at Torquay? Nope. He had two technically decent players on the wings who lacked any pace whatsoever, liked to come inside and play through the middle, and we were overloaded with defensive workhorses in the central positions.
He entered our club with one of the most forlorn and dispirited teams I've ever seen at Plainmoor, and his form was greatly better than the form which preceded him, which amounted to a constant string of losses. The performances were competitive again, and we slowly began to find goals within the team again. Managers who just waltz into a relegation side and turn things around are usually just motivators, who give the team a good kick up the arse and have them win through sheet guts and determination. Knill actually seemed to improve our quality of football and install some tactics which made us more and more attacking and more competitive.
You can't really talk about his points tally as a manger until he's been given the opportunity to build his own team and play his own way in my opinion. I'd like to give him a chance based on the potential I think he has, rather than just the standard of performances that we've recently displayed. They would undoubtedly be better if he could instil his own style at the club.
I like the cut of your jib Smiffy. Excellent post.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something."
League Managers Association: "We now expect the Club to honour the provisions of the contract without delay and the LMA will be supporting Martin throughout the process.â€
Employing damaged goods is one thing, damaged goods that seek out every penny of compensation is another.
Martin Ling's first priority should be the mental and physical well being of Martin Ling. If the financial well being of Martin Ling is pursued to the detriment of overall well being then future employment opportunities could disappear from Martin Ling's view quicker than a taxi outside a pub during a downpour.
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Leap like Les wrote:Hi everyone, I'm new to the site so be gentle.
I have been watching the Gulls for almost 40 years now and have read the posts about Martin's sacking.
I feel it was poorly handled by the club. Certain members of the board have very cleverly distanced themselves from the firing line following their inept handling of the situation when Martin became ill. No doubt fearing the worst, that we would go down, and that the proverbial p** would hit the fan. They then put Thea in the hot seat whilst still pulling all the strings in the background.
Martin wasn't the issue here. It was the Chairman and chief exec. When Martin asked to bring in loan players he was told he couldn't by all accounts.
Alan comes in and is free to bring in two and maybe more if he could have persuaded them to come.
They should have acted quicker to bring someone in. Taylor was coaching on his own with no backup and no managerial experience.
Alan's not the man for me. He has done next to nothing with his previous clubs and 4 wins in 14 games with football that you can see in the local leagues doesn't inspire me. When Martin left we were only just outside the playoff's and the performances were better, so for the board to say he was sacked for footballing reasons is a smokescreen.
A fresh start is needed with a new manager and a good clearout of players. Bring in some young hungry players with a point to prove and get rid of some of the dead wood.
hector wrote:I did not hear about Ling's sacking until quite late. I was surprised to hear that he had been sacked and thought that if he did go that it would be a mutual decision on 'health grounds' or something. So for it to be based on 'footballing reasons' - for which I do think there is justification when you consider the sackings of some more successful managers this season - was not something I was expecting.
The club were clearly in a quandary. Alan Knill is the populist candidate but to my mind people are getting carried away on the crest of a wave of relief when really his record has not been that good. I think the board were stuck between a rock and a hard place. Whatever decision they made would have been difficult and I have a certain degree of sympathy with them. At least they have acted and whilst twitter seems to be full of comments suggesting the club have acted dishonourably, I'm not sure what else they could have done, other than kept him and alienate a substantial amount of the fanbase.
I do feel sorry for Ling. This is an unusual sacking really, because it's not often a sacking provokes mixed feelings or splits opinion. I do think Ling's record since Spring 2012 was sackable and that is what the board have alluded to. Falling from the play-offs and nearly getting relegated. You could argue that during a season that was meant to be consolidation, Ling overachieved in his first year and that has cost him.
The style of football didn't help either and the possible fallout, had he stayed, of dull football and losing teams coupled with a fanbase just waiting for him to fail was never going to be a pleasant one had he remained in post. I think it is best for both parties, even if he may consider himself unlucky to lose his job...in other ways, he was lucky to still have it.
I have a feeling though that if the inevitable happens and Alan Knill gets the job that plenty of those cheerleading him now will be jeering him before long.
I said this 6 months ago. I said it again in September and got dogs abuse for it. But to me, Alan Knill was always a poor appointment. And whereas Ling's sacking split opinion, I cannot imagine Knill's will. It will cost the club money but what other option is there, other than to meekly succumb to relegation and crowds of a thousand if Knill stays in charge?
To be fair though Hector I personally will give anyone a chance even if I don't think they will be a success but you're basis for not rating him appears to stem from a feeling whereas mine stems from what I have seen since his appointment which is total sh*te. Maybe you were always hoping he would fail because initially you didn't like him and now he has you feel better? I'm not saying that there is anything wrong in that just that though Hector. You were right as so were many others.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
No, when he signed players that seemed quite decent, I hoped I would be proven wrong. I just feel quite angry that the club jumped on the Knill bandwagon when there was not really the grounds, in my view, for leaping to appointment. I suppose I never felt it was going to work and as soon as that became obvious then I felt we should change.
I don't know what it is but I just have always felt Knill would not be here for very long, that somehow, him and TUFC don't match. If it is true that he applied for other jobs, that his family are already back up north etc, then I don't think he saw himself here long-term either, and it has that feel of biding time/limbo about it.
There seems little point in waiting now. I cannot see how he can turn it around. It is best to end a clear mis-match and unhappy marriage ASAP.
No way. Neither are good enough imo. This current situation only serves to highlight just how incompetent AK is as when compared with another naff manager he comes out a million miles behind.
Strangely enough it was Pope Gregory the 9th inviting me for drinks aboard his steam yacht, the saucy sue currently wintering in montego bay with the England cricket team and the Balanese Goddess of plenty.
