Rochdale v Torquay United - 14/9/13

[AustrianAndyGull]

I feel that unhappy fans are right to air their grievances about Knill. Most of us know that we are a new team and it takes time for the manager to get the lads playing in the right manner, getting them organised and getting them to gel together. I concede that and those of you that are happy to wait and see may well of course be vindicated in the end but the way I see it we should at least be seeing progression in performance levels as a cohesive, offensive team AND in performance levels of individuals. We are not seeing this and it isn't unreasonable to expect a team who starts slowly to show improvement the more games we play.

We are 9 games in if you count cup and we have been extremely poor, often performances have got worse one after the other. Players who are obviously not good enough or contributing to the team the way we want them to are regular starters. Harding, I think most of us can agree that he has been woeful and has got worse not better, Cameron likewise, Ball, Hawley, Nico and so on. These players just are not improving they are regressing and Knill doesn't seem to want to change things at this time. That is his prerogative but I am struggling to understand why. I'm not a football manager but if my starting 11 are poor and getting worse and showing zero signs of getting something together then i'd look to change it. What happens if say another 10 games down the line we've managed to win another couple of games but performances are the same then without change? Do we give him more time, then more time, then some more?

I think any slight improvement we made today can be ignored as anything off the back of a 4-1 drubbing is likely to be an improvement. The worry for me is that those lads i'm presuming were all fired up for today against a bang average league 2 outfit and therefore is what happened out there today the best we've got? Is that the sum total of our fighting response to put some pride back into the club? A moribund 1-0 defeat at Rochdale without so much as a goal? If it is we have further problems.

Look, i'm a reasonable man. We have a selection problem it is clear, some players who are playing clearly aren't good enough to be starting football matches and should be replaced, some that are playing ARE good enough but need to get their fingers out of their cracks which Knill is responsible for. If Knill changes it around to the way some of us want and after a while it doesn't work then fine, we can hold up our hands and say,"ok Alan, you've swopped it around a bit and given it a bit of time and still we're crap, we can accept that as the reality now for this season and dig in and get behind this ultra ordinary bunch of players". We can say that and move forward because he has tried to change it and it hasn't worked.

We can't score but can't keep clean sheets, we are generally worse overall than I saw under Ling which I NEVER in a million years thought possible and Knill seems quite happy to go along with the status quo even when it is going badly. Ling did that and it almost cost us. The appointment of Knill is beginning to be a sort of deja vu nightmare but worse. My hopes and excitement I had for this new dawn in the summer months have gone completely and we're only 7 league games in, we're getting predictable and boring again and it is so easy to play against but not so easy to watch. I can't actually believe it is happening all over again and it makes me really upset to be fair.

I don't want the earth, I want mid table, players who try and can play a bit and everyone associated with the club to show passion and desire and some respect for the fans. I don't mind a 4-1 hammering but when you get a rubbish 1-0 defeat against Rochdale as a response I DO mind. We have NOT taken a lead this season. OMFG that stat just proves how negative we are. I'm sad and feel a bit ashamed to be having a pop at this early stage but I see NO positives whatsoever in trying to move forward.

[Scott Brehaut]

I feel that unhappy fans are right to air their grievances about Knill. Most of us know that we are a new team and it takes time for the manager to get the lads playing in the right manner, getting them organised and getting them to gel together. I concede that and those of you that are happy to wait and see may well of course be vindicated in the end but the way I see it we should at least be seeing progression in performance levels as a cohesive, offensive team AND in performance levels of individuals. We are not seeing this and it isn't unreasonable to expect a team who starts slowly to show improvement the more games we play.

We are 9 games in if you count cup and we have been extremely poor, often performances have got worse one after the other. Players who are obviously not good enough or contributing to the team the way we want them to are regular starters. Harding, I think most of us can agree that he has been woeful and has got worse not better, Cameron likewise, Ball, Hawley, Nico and so on. These players just are not improving they are regressing and Knill doesn't seem to want to change things at this time. That is his prerogative but I am struggling to understand why. I'm not a football manager but if my starting 11 are poor and getting worse and showing zero signs of getting something together then i'd look to change it. What happens if say another 10 games down the line we've managed to win another couple of games but performances are the same then without change? Do we give him more time, then more time, then some more?

I think any slight improvement we made today can be ignored as anything off the back of a 4-1 drubbing is likely to be an improvement. The worry for me is that those lads i'm presuming were all fired up for today against a bang average league 2 outfit and therefore is what happened out there today the best we've got? Is that the sum total of our fighting response to put some pride back into the club? A moribund 1-0 defeat at Rochdale without so much as a goal? If it is we have further problems.

Look, i'm a reasonable man. We have a selection problem it is clear, some players who are playing clearly aren't good enough to be starting football matches and should be replaced, some that are playing ARE good enough but need to get their fingers out of their cracks which Knill is responsible for. If Knill changes it around to the way some of us want and after a while it doesn't work then fine, we can hold up our hands and say,"ok Alan, you've swopped it around a bit and given it a bit of time and still we're crap, we can accept that as the reality now for this season and dig in and get behind this ultra ordinary bunch of players". We can say that and move forward because he has tried to change it and it hasn't worked.

We can't score but can't keep clean sheets, we are generally worse overall than I saw under Ling which I NEVER in a million years thought possible and Knill seems quite happy to go along with the status quo even when it is going badly. Ling did that and it almost cost us. The appointment of Knill is beginning to be a sort of deja vu nightmare but worse. My hopes and excitement I had for this new dawn in the summer months have gone completely and we're only 7 league games in, we're getting predictable and boring again and it is so easy to play against but not so easy to watch. I can't actually believe it is happening all over again and it makes me really upset to be fair.

I don't want the earth, I want mid table, players who try and can play a bit and everyone associated with the club to show passion and desire and some respect for the fans. I don't mind a 4-1 hammering but when you get a rubbish 1-0 defeat against Rochdale as a response I DO mind. We have NOT taken a lead this season. OMFG that stat just proves how negative we are. I'm sad and feel a bit ashamed to be having a pop at this early stage but I see NO positives whatsoever in trying to move forward.

Cracking post Andy - and says all that I have been trying to say, but failing!!

[Robiberto22]

top post andy - without the funds tho he's made his bed and has to prove his mettle and work to improve on what he has

[AustrianAndyGull]

I accept that robiberto but he has a handful of players who would improve the team who he isn't using IMO so he isn't utilising what he has at his disposal properly. If he does this and we are still rubbish then happy days, let's just crack on and try and get some attacking intent going forward, we're going to concede anyway so we may as well attack. Hmm, i'm sure I've said that about another manager somewhere before.........

[Robiberto22]

absolutley - we've all been saying we'd like to see cruise craig yeoman ect, i think its a matter of time - end of the day we will surely get better ... wont we? Oh and i got yeoman on me shirt this year and so far not a single minute of action so not happy!!!

[AustrianAndyGull]

Hawley has some latent ability and if he gets regular service in a more advanced role then he'll get goals, his finish at Morecambe proved as much. Ball is awful, BSP at best. I feel a bit of sympathy because we don't play to his strengths and playing for a team whacking crosses over all day long he might get goals but for us he huffs and puffs but he's nowhere near good enough or potent enough to be a main striker, and when you have Yeoman on the bench then it is all the more galling. Give Yeoman some f*cking game time and if he doesn't do the business then time is time and get rid. Yeoman is a better all round striker than Ball and Ball is on the books at a Championship club. They say football is a funny old game don't they?

[Robiberto22]

you'd wonder if yeoman, benners and hawley would work better with a ball type tho? benyon and yeoman teamed up well towards the end of last season but would both be better off with a big lad next to em?

[supergulls]

I feel that unhappy fans are right to air their grievances about Knill. Most of us know that we are a new team and it takes time for the manager to get the lads playing in the right manner, getting them organised and getting them to gel together. I concede that and those of you that are happy to wait and see may well of course be vindicated in the end but the way I see it we should at least be seeing progression in performance levels as a cohesive, offensive team AND in performance levels of individuals. We are not seeing this and it isn't unreasonable to expect a team who starts slowly to show improvement the more games we play.

We are 9 games in if you count cup and we have been extremely poor, often performances have got worse one after the other. Players who are obviously not good enough or contributing to the team the way we want them to are regular starters. Harding, I think most of us can agree that he has been woeful and has got worse not better, Cameron likewise, Ball, Hawley, Nico and so on. These players just are not improving they are regressing and Knill doesn't seem to want to change things at this time. That is his prerogative but I am struggling to understand why. I'm not a football manager but if my starting 11 are poor and getting worse and showing zero signs of getting something together then i'd look to change it. What happens if say another 10 games down the line we've managed to win another couple of games but performances are the same then without change? Do we give him more time, then more time, then some more?

I think any slight improvement we made today can be ignored as anything off the back of a 4-1 drubbing is likely to be an improvement. The worry for me is that those lads i'm presuming were all fired up for today against a bang average league 2 outfit and therefore is what happened out there today the best we've got? Is that the sum total of our fighting response to put some pride back into the club? A moribund 1-0 defeat at Rochdale without so much as a goal? If it is we have further problems.

Look, i'm a reasonable man. We have a selection problem it is clear, some players who are playing clearly aren't good enough to be starting football matches and should be replaced, some that are playing ARE good enough but need to get their fingers out of their cracks which Knill is responsible for. If Knill changes it around to the way some of us want and after a while it doesn't work then fine, we can hold up our hands and say,"ok Alan, you've swopped it around a bit and given it a bit of time and still we're crap, we can accept that as the reality now for this season and dig in and get behind this ultra ordinary bunch of players". We can say that and move forward because he has tried to change it and it hasn't worked.

We can't score but can't keep clean sheets, we are generally worse overall than I saw under Ling which I NEVER in a million years thought possible and Knill seems quite happy to go along with the status quo even when it is going badly. Ling did that and it almost cost us. The appointment of Knill is beginning to be a sort of deja vu nightmare but worse. My hopes and excitement I had for this new dawn in the summer months have gone completely and we're only 7 league games in, we're getting predictable and boring again and it is so easy to play against but not so easy to watch. I can't actually believe it is happening all over again and it makes me really upset to be fair.

I don't want the earth, I want mid table, players who try and can play a bit and everyone associated with the club to show passion and desire and some respect for the fans. I don't mind a 4-1 hammering but when you get a rubbish 1-0 defeat against Rochdale as a response I DO mind. We have NOT taken a lead this season. OMFG that stat just proves how negative we are. I'm sad and feel a bit ashamed to be having a pop at this early stage but I see NO positives whatsoever in trying to move forward.

Andy please please don't take this personally because I really do like some of the posts you put up here and although I have never had the fortune to meet you in person hearing from others I hear your a great fella. But without going back through old posts you absolutely slaughtered ling at the end of his reign and was adamant that the football under knill was going to be exciting free flowing and we would be a comfortable league 2 team. Now that clearly isn't the case and sometimes the grass isn't always greener and I would gladly swap where we are now to where we was under Martin. Sometimes it's easy to get carried away in the euphoria when to be fair I think we're worse off. Is hawley better than Rene, is Pearce better than saah, is tonge better than oastler, is Cameron better than Stevens or Jarvis I don't think so.

[ferrarilover]

Andy, dismal attempt at 'swapping' aside, that's a post right out of the top drawer. It manages to convey the situation without baseless speculation, the twisting and distortion of facts or blatant disregard of the realities of life. It's realistically negative without being morbid and, to top it all off, you've made excellent use of 'moribund'.

Super, I happen to think that Hawley is about three million miles better than Rene and, with dependable service from the ever trusty left foot of Nathan Craig, he'd get a few goals. Pearce is Saah's equal, they're both excellent defenders. That said, I think there is more room for improvement in Pearce than there was in Saah and, as much as I liked Oastler (or, more accurately, as much as I didn't dislike Oastler), I feel the same about Tongue. Cameron should be better than Stevens, but isn't showing it in his bit part appearances. Perhaps if he got some regular pitch time, he might find a vein of form?

Matt.

[brucie]

Probably the only player man for man better than what he had last year is Chapple. As I keep saying the major problem with this team is the strikers. Ball will be playing in the Conference next year - he won't get retained by Derby at the end of the season.
I am not sure if Benyon was injured or not today - if he wasn't injured then why wasn't he playing?
Knill's after match interview was more worrying than last week. He appeared completely clueless. I can seriously see us losing at home to Cheltenham next week. They are not very good but will no doubt be better than we are.
I was happy with his appointment but we just seem to be going completely in the wrong direction at the moment.

[nickbrod]

Just what has gone wrong this season? The majority of us felt that Knill was going to make us a better team. What we don't know is his budget. I can only think that much of what he could have had has gone to pay off Ling and Taylor.
Whilst every team is going to concede goals - and we are no different - the problem, as we can all see, is that we can't score.
I've seen Ball for several games and, as a football coach (albeit of schoolboys for many years) he is not a natural goalscorer and neither is Hawley. Benyon is and so could Yeoman if given a run. If he's not in favour then Ball should return to Derby reserves and another loanee brought in.
After the Wimbledon game I had already assessed our striking and midfield failings. Whist Harding is not as bad as many make out neither he nor Mansell are creative players and this is what we lack.
As things stand at the moment we are hoping there will be two worse teams than us come the end of the season. However I remain positive and believe Knill and Brass will end up as the right choice for our club.
Next Saturday is a vital game and our recent home record against Cheltenham is not great. If the Board are going to avoid what happened last season they need to be proactive soon and allow Knill to dip into the loan market.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I don't take it personally at all Supergulls, no need for people to tread on eggshells when challenging any of my posts. So long as it is courteous, as yours is then I appreciate it and I can respond with honesty.

You are totally correct in saying that I slaughtered Ling at the end of his reign and I am not ashamed to admit this. It was purely football based though and not anything to do with his private issues.

My gripe with Ling was that the football is basically as it is now. Sterile, turgid, lacks passion and desire, predictable, dull, boring and mindnumbing. This was due to his persistent negative approach to every game and he wouldn't be moved. If he was Margaret Thatcher he would have said "This Lingy isn't for turning". Results dropped off and he didn't do anything different to change things. That is why I slated Ling, nice bloke but frightened to try something new.

Now in terms of Knill, I have to be honest and say I knew very little of him as a manager in terms of the style of football he likes to play or his record but my view was that as Ling was just SO negative, NOBODY apart from Tony Pulis could be like that again therefore I presumed that Knill would at least offer us a more proactive and positive style of football, almost by default really. Even if i'd been given the job i'd have just said ATTACK ATTACK and we'd have been more entertaining to watch than under Ling.

I had no basis for believing the football under Knill would be worse than Ling as I never considered this possible but that is where we find ourselves now. I wouldn't say I got carried away in the euphoria, I was just glad to be shut of Ling and hopeful of seeing something with a bit more pizzazz and a bit more energy. It looks like I have been well and truly bitten on the arse and it is true, be careful what you wish for.

Ultimately I think it is extremely sad for football that negative managers like Ling and Knill can keep on getting employment and we should be looking at bringing younger managers into the game and getting rid of these dinosaurs. The tone of your post suggests you liked Ling but also think Knill is doing a sh*te job?

Ling would have been an ideal manager for us IF he would just be a bit more adventurous. We could have been so good under Ling if he had just let go of the reins a bit but it wasn't to be. Knill is worrying me more as at least under Ling we were tight and a goal could have seen us come away with a point or three. We can't stop conceding and we don't score. As for your points on who is better than who in terms of players then you are right, Howe is better than Hawley, Tonge and Oastler the same for me, Stevens AND Jarvo over Cameron, Pearce I can't say yet and so on and so forth. So all in we're in the sh*t and I hope I answered your questions Supergulls.

[ferrarilover]

Tezza, Benyon's foot injury has become infected, hence his omission. Chelts will likely turn us over if we let Nico play, because McGlashan will have a field day. Play Cruise and we can win the match.

Nick, sorry pal, you've got that wrong, Harding really is as bad as I think he is.

Matt.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Andy, dismal attempt at 'swapping' aside, that's a post right out of the top drawer. It manages to convey the situation without baseless speculation, the twisting and distortion of facts or blatant disregard of the realities of life. It's realistically negative without being morbid and, to top it all off, you've made excellent use of 'moribund'.Super, I happen to think that Hawley is about three million miles better than Rene and, with dependable service from the ever trusty left foot of Nathan Craig, he'd get a few goals. Pearce is Saah's equal, they're both excellent defenders. That said, I think there is more room for improvement in Pearce than there was in Saah and, as much as I liked Oastler (or, more accurately, as much as I didn't dislike Oastler), I feel the same about Tongue. Cameron should be better than Stevens, but isn't showing it in his bit part appearances. Perhaps if he got some regular pitch time, he might find a vein of form?

Matt.

another innocuous titbit that has made me p*ss myself laughing!

[Burnhamgull]

If Nico plays against McGlashan on Saturday, we will lose heavily. Even at his best, Nico got skinned regularly by JM, so it will be a massacre with Kev in his current 'form'. We all saw at Northampton (who are proper bobbins) what happens when a pacy right winger gets at Nico, so there is precedent here.