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Rjc70 wrote:Should have stuck by Ling.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: so you dont blame CH?

even though hes been here since January and signed some sh*t?

No, I don't actually. He didn't build the team, set up the losing culture that has only just been shaken off. He hasn't done very well but in my mind it is very clear that Alan Knill, his bloody awful signings, his crap football are what set the scene for our relegation.[/quote]

then you are deluded.

he had plenty of time to change things...

he loaned in players that didnt play and signed stevens.....

but you dont blame him for any of that.

unbelievable.[/quote]

But you appear to excuse Knill but blame Hargreaves. I said Hargreaves didn't do very well (although his recent record hints at better). However, it is Knill who has signed so many players on long contracts that simply didn't perform.

Hargreaves had 3 weeks left of transfer window or otherwise rely on loanees. Knill had 5 months to build his team and what a **** mess he made of it.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: and there is the reason why he should never have got the job.

Whereas the experience of Alan Knill served us so well.

stefano wrote: Your doctor for not providing the right treatment and not informing DVLA to revoke your licence

Bugger got that wrong! You were the passenger so didn't even need a bloody licence! Better go and get my medication now

Well done Torquay,great win today,unfortunately when you have to rely on other people they always let you down.Well done Chris Hargreeves,finally in the last few games you got it right but unfortunately too late.Well done ALL the Torquay United supporters who followed the team and gave tremendous support.The one big goal for this season is to beat Wycombe and not to be bottom of the football league so quite a game in prospect next week.Most have known our fait for several months but now we know it is still hard to swollow,the one thing now is to beat Wycombe and not be the worst team in the football league.If only we could keep this team I would be confident for next season but we all know that all the decent players will be off,tough job coming up for Chris Hargreaves.

Scott Brehaut wrote:

very good post.

hindsight is a wonderful thing.....

yellowforever wrote:
I'm not disputing that, but blaming him entirely for making mistakes that pretty much every inexperienced manager makes is unfair. In this case, it is the boards fault for not going for a 'Sturrock' or someone of his experience, they should have been aware that there are ramifications that come with people who have done no more than a few media appearances and managing a reserve side.

I'm backing Hargreaves entirely for next season, even though it was my preference to see an experienced manager take over after Knill. He's shown enough that he's learnt from mistakes.

im not blaming him entirely as you put it.

just from when he got the job.

Rjc70 wrote:Should have stuck by Ling.

My feelings to that

Indeed, given how things have turned out it's very easy to look back and say sticking with Ling was the answer. There's no doubt that's where the trouble started however he wasn't a well chap and given the nature of the role I can't see how it would have been possible for him to make a successful return. I still think it was right for him to leave the club however the mess the club made of his sacking and the subsequent appointments and overall management and board room level are the reason we have gone down in my opinion.

hector wrote:
Yes, job well done by Knill setting us up to get relegated. It is his fault.

so you dont blame CH?

even though hes been here since January and signed some sh*t? [/quote]

No, I don't actually. He didn't build the team, set up the losing culture that has only just been shaken off. He hasn't done very well but in my mind it is very clear that Alan Knill, his bloody awful signings, his crap football are what set the scene for our relegation.[/quote]

then you are deluded.

he had plenty of time to change things...

he loaned in players that didnt play and signed stevens.....

but you dont blame him for any of that.

unbelievable.[/quote]

But you appear to excuse Knill but blame Hargreaves. I said Hargreaves didn't do very well (although his recent record hints at better). However, it is Knill who has signed so many players on long contracts that simply didn't perform.

Hargreaves had 3 weeks left of transfer window or otherwise rely on loanees. Knill had 5 months to build his team and what a f**king mess he made of it.[/quote]


only three weeks?

wow.

hector wrote: Whereas the experience of Alan Knill served us so well.

it did to keep us in the league at the end of last season when we could have gone down.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: and there is the reason why he should never have got the job.

And who else would you have given the job? We're Torquay United, not Northampton, we can't afford to throw money at a problem and hope it will go away, Chris was the best option all ways around.

SuperNickyWroe wrote:
the fact that CH acutally played him in front of our top scorer perhaps?

get your head out of your ar*e.

As for this, lets just take a look at the facts shall we? Chris was appointed on the 6th January, so his first game was Wimbledon away on the 11th Jan. Since then he has lead the team to a win on 7 occasions, a draw on 1, and losses on 12 occasions. So that's a total of 20 games.


Lets look at Knill's track record shall we: Wins 4, draws 8, losses 12 (Not including cup matches) making a total of 24 games played.


Knill didn't secure his first win as manager until 5 games in, Hargeaves managed it in his first. CH has managed a team to get Torquay 28 points, Knill managed to get us 20. I think what I'm saying is pretty clear.





So, tell me again how CH is no good for Torquay...... :Oops:



**for those of you budding mathematicians going, that's only 44 of the 45 games we've played, I've not included the draw that JH got us.

Pea wrote:
As for this, lets just take a look at the facts shall we? Chris was appointed on the 6th January, so his first game was Wimbledon away on the 11th Jan. Since then he has lead the team to a win on 7 occasions, a draw on 1, and losses on 12 occasions. So that's a total of 20 games.


Lets look at Knill's track record shall we: Wins 4, draws 8, losses 12 (Not including cup matches) making a total of 24 games played.


Knill didn't secure his first win as manager until 5 games in, Hargeaves managed it in his first. CH has managed a team to get Torquay 28 points, Knill managed to get us 20. I think what I'm saying is pretty clear.


So, tell me again how CH is no good for Torquay...... :Oops:


**for those of you budding mathematicians going, that's only 44 of the 45 games we've played, I've not included the draw that JH got us.

have you actually bothered to read posts?

there were better candidtates than CH that appiled.

he constantly played the wrong team,tactics etc.

eg yeoman scores, gets dropped....plays stevens instead of top goalscorer. brings stevens on instead of top goalscorer....

CH has no idea.

Pea wrote:

**for those of you budding mathematicians going, that's only 44 of the 45 games we've played, I've not included the draw that JH got us.

For those pedants amongst us, she means GH

SuperNickyWroe wrote:
it did to keep us in the league at the end of last season when we could have gone down.

We ended up nearer relegation than when he took over. His record was hardly inspiring. The fact is, Knill did better with Ling's team than he did for the team he expensively assembled of his own.

Let us face facts. Knill managed to win just 5 games all season. In something like 27 games. Hargreaves has won two more in far less games. Not exactly brilliant but better than Knill.

There is absolutely nothing, anyone can say in support of Knill.

His signings - dire.

His record - dire - even break it down to points per game ratio and it is worse than dire and worse than Hargreaves. If what Hargreaves has done with Alan Knill's team is so awful, then how exactly do you excuse what one of the worst manager's in our history - ever - (and I mean Knill here) did with his OWN team?