Burton Albion v Torquay United - 12/1/12

[stevegull]

Cheers 'BrewerInPeace'. It just goes to show how some people on here can go a bit over the top after a defeat. It's the life of supporting a League Two club that you don't always get what you think you might deserve!

I've always enjoyed our games against the Brewers and I hope you lot can go on and get promoted ahead of some of the other more arrogant clubs.

[Dave]

Dannyrv is spot on we have not been playing 4-4-2 Martin Ling himself has said in a number of interviews this formation is not 4-4-2 and I am not sure why some have the idea we are/ have been playing 4-4-2. Jarvis/Yoeman have been playing in the hole behind Rene Howe.Which is the role left vacant by O'Kane so we have been playing the good old formation from last season since the Southend game.

[Kernowgull]

Cheers 'BrewerInPeace'. It just goes to show how some people on here can go a bit over the top after a defeat. It's the life of supporting a League Two club that you don't always get what you think you might deserve!.

Steve, I dont think anyone is going over the top. We have been dreadful in 2 of our last 5 games, ok in one, real backs to the wall performance in one, and by all accounts, very good yesterday. Thats 5 games, 4 different levels of performance, and 2 points.

Beat Exeter and we'll probably be ok, lose to Exeter and we are in trouble. Thats not a prophecy of relegation, football is unpredictable, but anyone who believes at this moment in time we are not in a battle, even if its only a short term one, is naive.

[AustrianAndyGull]

January is critical and that is why IMO it is madness to not bring in another striker. We are in a funny position now, win our games in hand and we are back in the thick of the play off race but lose them and we are in some serious sh*t. It is vital we start winning soon as that will determine if we are to be faced with a true relegation battle.

[brucie]

The comments above our laughable. To suggest that the team isn't in trouble because we played well and lost to Burton just does not make sense. We didn't play well against Wimbledon and lost - the outcome is the same, no points.
We might have just enough to avoid relegation BUT if we lose Downes or Howe we would seriously look down and out.
Can't Ling see what the problem is with this team. Jarvis for me is good enough as the support striker for Howe.
The problem is on the wings and in midfield.
Stevens produces inept pefromances everytime he plays. On what grounds is he better than Niall Thompson, he might be raw but at least he looks like a winger. Similarly Craig is a waste of space out wide.
The issue needs to be addressed now with a couple of loan signings so that we have the personnel to pick up the points needed for safety.
If Ling faffs around much longer will probably end up with more injuries to key players and we really will be in the mire.

[AustrianAndyGull]

The comments above our laughable. To suggest that the team isn't in trouble because we played well and lost to Burton just does not make sense. We didn't play well against Wimbledon and lost - the outcome is the same, no points.
We might have just enough to avoid relegation BUT if we lose Downes or Howe we would seriously look down and out.
Can't Ling see what the problem is with this team. Jarvis for me is good enough as the support striker for Howe.
The problem is on the wings and in midfield. Stevens produces inept pefromances everytime he plays. On what grounds is he better than Niall Thompson, he might be raw but at least he looks like a winger. Similarly Craig is a waste of space out wide.
The issue needs to be addressed now with a couple of loan signings so that we have the personnel to pick up the points needed for safety.
If Ling faffs around much longer will probably end up with more injuries to key players and we really will be in the mire.

In terms of getting the best out of Jarvis Brucie, this is spot on. Jarvo will score anywhere inside the area if you give him the service. He's a poacher, nothing more nothing less. If we had regular consistent deliveries from wide areas then we would be playing to his strengths and rewarding us with more goals. Stevens does it on occasions but too often will cut back inside and the play will be switched and momentum lost. With the amount of players we had in attacking positions at times as the game wore on yesterday i would have liked to have seen Thommo come on far sooner. If we steer clear of any more injuries and silly suspensions then we will be comfortably mid table come the end IMO and i actually believe we'll beat Exeter and lose at Aldershot so although i reckon Ling has patched up the team admirably in the face of injuries and suspensions, it is his early season over conservativeness which has cost us any hope of a play off spot and so we now find oursleves looking over our shoulders instead of having the comfort zone of 8,9,10 points more which we would have got against some teams if we had been more positive.

[bixieupnorth]

i was there andy, stood just to the right of the goal

thoroughly enjoyed my day out, the second half was really good entertainment, if we carry on playing in that manner then we'll surely win more than we lose, only down point was the shocker that lil dan had, oh and losing of course, but it felt better than the usual spineless defeat

burton is tip top for beer obviously, 4 sovereign golds in the bridge in before and 3 delicious pints of draught bass in the coopers tavern afterwards, straight out the barrel too! nectar!

[tktufc91]

The league is so tight right now that any bad run of form can see a team go from the play-offs down to near the bottom of the league in just a few games.

I said yesterday that I was first having doubts about Martin, I still feel the same way today but what's critical now is that we get a win on Tuesday. 2 wins in 11 tells its own story, the confidence isn't high and we are slowly looking over our shoulders. I don't care if we play c*ap football, as long as we win games. Right now we've been playing c*ap and losing. That's what annoying me more than anything else. I'm glad the performance was better yesterday but that means nothing to me if we still lost. Time to start playing ugly and getting the wins we need.

[bengull]

Goes without saying that it's disappointing to lose any game but we can be encouraged by the manner in which we played. Surprised to see Jarvis restored to the starting line-up so quickly but I thought he had an excellent game, his link up play was superb and the goal showed his excellent predatory instincts. Looks like we found the striker we have been 'crying out for' he was in the building all along-in the treatment room.

Interesting too to see Lathrope get the nod ahead of Easton, whether this was to appease the moaners who do not rate Easton or to try and re-ignite the excellent understanding Mansell and Damon had last season is open to debate, but the combination was mightily effective for 60 minutes. Easton can count himself unlucky in my view to be benched but at the same time I think Lathrope offers just a little more ingenuity in his passing which he used to good effect particularly in the first half yesterday.

We can all agree that Nathan Craig is going to be a future star, his technique and vision is top class. However I do not think he is experienced enough to play in a central midfield two just yet, especially when you have such a tireless box-to box runner as Mansell, you need someone (like Easton/Lathrope) who will play the responsible role of sitting back and sensing where the counter attacking danger is going to be and filling in the holes. Lathrope does this perfectly and plugs the holes left by marauding full-backs or set-piece joining centre-backs, I don't think Nathan Craig should fulfill this role because his excellent delivery is needed further up the pitch.

It is quite a quandary and when posed with a similar problem with EO-K early on last season, the manager took the decision to revert to a 4-5-1 to fully get the best out of his most imaginative midfielder. With Jarvis now adding excellent company to a recently isolated Howe this no longer becomes an option to utilise Craig, but as his setpiece delivery can be so dangerous that he has to start. Sadly this means that at the moment he may not be utilised in his best position on the right wing but crucially he is still learning his trade. Tenuous argument but Steven Gerrard was 'stuck' on the right wing in his early years at Liverpool or 'The Graveyard Shift' as he called it, it helped him develop into the alround midfield maestro he has been for some, more or fewer of the last 10 years.

Including Craig in this position brings about a whole new problem though, I do not think either full-back is getting the protection they need in order to play their natural game. Neither Nicholson or Oastler have been anywhere near as consistent as they were last season because I do not believe the wingers are tracking back fast enough, I have lost count of the amount of times Nicholson has been left on a 2 on 1 scenario and has been made to look slow and out of position, when in reality you know he is probably the one player on the team who knows his position inside out. As such, when we are under the cosh I would like to see our two wingers play on their natural wings making it easier to clear their lines. Swapping wings frequently worked throughout last season and I do not think we have been doing it anywhere near enough this year. I am not a hater of Danny Stevens, I think on his day he can be, and is, our most effective forward player, however due to his physical constraints he needs to be absolved of defensive duties as much as possible.

I think most fans are now starting to see the good work Ian Morris put in last season, and how he is being sorely missed. Ok he didn't score 10 goals, nor did he beat his man and put a vicious cross into the box on a too regular basis, but his excellent positionally responsible attitude and defensive capabilities offered us the balance we are lacking currently.

Once again, in my view, we lost yesterday due to our failure to convert chances. Against Northampton, Argyle and Burton we had ample chances to make the game safe, but didn't. You can not point the finger of blame at the manager if your striker doesn't put the ball in the back of the net. Nor can you blame him for the nature of the first goal, which acted as a significant momentum shift, yet Lingy is getting the flak ahead of the players who, in some cases, in the eyes of many, can do no wrong. As for the winner, well, a good strike, but next week he would just as likely hit it over the stand.

We are on a bad run, there's no hiding that, and yes even I am starting to look over our shoulder a little bit. However, now is not the time to panic. Most people had written Martin Ling off before he had even got his feet under the desk. Most people questionned his abilities after a particularly alarming run last October, he kept calm and proved the doubters wrong on both occasions. This group of players was good enough to beat a buoyant Gillingham after a galling result against Bristol Rovers, it is therefore good enough to beat a jubilant Exeter City team too, and although obviously Football doesn't work exactly like that I can say that if we play with the fluidity and imagination we displayed at stages yesterday, and most importantly convert our chances, we will have nothing to worry about this season.

For the whole season I have been bleatiing about keeping calm and play-off pushes, right now lets just concentrate on 50 points. Psychologically we will all blow a sigh of relief when we reach that mark. Then, lets keep our bills paid and concentrate on team affairs. With so many players out of contract at the end of the season, it would be naive to suggest that the manager isn't already planning big for next year irrespective of what league we may find ourselves in.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Agree to a certain extent tktufc91 but whereas last season and to a certain extent some games at the start of this season we could play dire sh*te and get away with a 1-0 NOW we cannot keep a clean sheet for love nor money and so we need 2 goals in a game to have a chance of a win ( and even then it is not guaranteed - Wimbledon anyone? ). I think if we revert to playing crap then we will eke out the odd 1-0 and draws but there isn't a hope in hell we could hope to regularly score the 2 or more needed to see a game out. I think yesterdays performance gave hope and if Martin persists with that kind of attitude and positivity we will win more games than we'll lose IMO. If we start sitting back again absorbing pressure and trying to counter attack all the time then we will inevitably find ourselves in trouble because the opposition are likely to score and we can't keep clean sheets. That adds up to not winning games. I hope Martin throws the kitchen sink at Exeter from the off because we will concede at some point in the game so we need more than 1 goal. No point in going defensive as we'll still need 2 at least as we will concede so trying to score 2 from a defensive set up rarely works. Let's just trust Lingy to get us the kudos of a win against our bitterest of rivals and kick start our revival on tuesday.

Oh and great post Ben. Very insightful and generally right on the money. Glad you think Stevens is better than Bodin, that scenario is worrying though!

How you manage to notice the intricacies and subtleties of tactics and player positioning throughout a game is beyond me and some sort of sixth sense. I just sing and go to the toilet a lot! Remarkable. I AM ACTUALLY A BIT SIMPLE.

[usagullmichigan]

The comments above our laughable. To suggest that the team isn't in trouble because we played well and lost to Burton just does not make sense. We didn't play well against Wimbledon and lost - the outcome is the same, no points.
We might have just enough to avoid relegation BUT if we lose Downes or Howe we would seriously look down and out.
Can't Ling see what the problem is with this team. Jarvis for me is good enough as the support striker for Howe.
The problem is on the wings and in midfield.
Stevens produces inept pefromances everytime he plays. On what grounds is he better than Niall Thompson, he might be raw but at least he looks like a winger. Similarly Craig is a waste of space out wide.
The issue needs to be addressed now with a couple of loan signings so that we have the personnel to pick up the points needed for safety.
If Ling faffs around much longer will probably end up with more injuries to key players and we really will be in the mire.

Brucie, is Jarvis not our best striker at the moment going by goals scored in recent games and he has been out for a month?

[AustrianAndyGull]

Just read the 'BETTER SIDE BEATEN' article on the OS. Two things, we weren't the better side. Burton had just as much going forward as us and they took more of their chances than us.

Secondly the article begins by saying,'United returned to the side full of the attacking ideas that has been the signature for much of Martin Ling's reign as manager of the club'. Who has written this?! It's complete bullsh*t and i nearly fell off my chair when i read it! I take it the bloke in question hasn't attended many of our away games this season because if there was any attacking ideas in most of that little lot i'll eat my own poo. And the poo of assorted random farm animals if only to prove a point. Unbelievable. No more of this sucking up crap please, say as you see and stop fibbing.

[Colorado Gull]

The 6 players you mention would not work, because it'd leave our back line incredibly pressured, which isn't a good thing.

That is the only problem, I can see your point Nick and I have thought about that, however I still think it could work, we'd still have a good defensive style and should give it a go. At the moment, we are way too defensive, three centre midfielders just doesn't work for us. Nathan Craig is a top player defensively and in attack, his tackling at times is terrific, likewise Mansell. Those two in the middle defending, attacking and working the ball out to the wings would work effectively. If the boys in yellow worked in that 4-4-2 formation throughout the whole game with everyone in position working together, attacking and defending I think it would work. Another thing, you can't teach pace, you either have it or you don't and a team with pace are much more dangerous. With the line up I suggest, the pace that we would have would be fantastic and we would look instantly more dangerous with the boys working together and using that pace effectively.

Yes it seems a very attacking kind of side, but if the players worked together, keeping to the formation in attack and defensive, I think it could work (of course this will never happen as ML is such a defensive minded manager).

[bengull]

Ok, theoretically we play your way for the next 3 matches, go cavalier and get carved apart at the back and lose all 3. What then?

We can all discuss what we like to see happen and what we believe would make a difference as much as we like, doesn't mean for one second it would make a difference, it's all conjecture.

I will repeat, If we had taken our chances against Northampton, Argyle and Burton, having created them in an attacking manner we probably wouldn't be in the position we are now.

[Jeff]

Great post bengull