bengull wrote:
Poke's blunder was a one-off, he will never do that again.
Really ?
I've seen yesterday's Joke do that from kick-outs many times and that is just at Plainmoor. Joke's kicking from kick-outs and deadball kicks has and always will be piss poor. Yesterday, Joke got found out big time.
Why has his joke kicking not been coached out of him ? Does applying the correct technique with the correct force to kick result in his injuries/pulls/strains ?
What does our full time goalkeeper coach effectively do between putting out the cones and taking them back in again?
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Guys, I am not saying we should all be delighted about losing 3-1 yesterday, of course I'm not. If you were all gutted listening to the radio, trust me it felt 10 times worse in the ground, a mixture of frustration and disbelief, and I had a 4 hour journey home to think about it. I am not going to attack anyone's opinions, deep down we all fear the worst and know what relegation will mean to our club, I just don't think the situation is so bad that we can write off our club yet.
It looks bleak, but then it looked bleak at the same sort of time in Buckle's first season back in the league, couldn't hit a thing for weeks and then suddenly it clicked. I do not expect such a gargantuan turnaround as that but the future is in our own hands. Yes we might be the unluckiest team in the history of football, yes we might make stupid rickets from time to time, but lets be realistic here: our new manager has been in the post for 5 games, in that time any momentum created has been enforcedly halted, had he wanted to get any continuity going after Wimbledon or Portsmouth, he couldn't. Our biggest enemy in the last few weeks has not been ourselves, it has been the weather.
Everyone is losing their heads when there is still a lot of football to be played. We were saying the exact same thing last season after we went 7 games in a row. We were even a goal and a man down after 5 minutes at Dagenham and the entire forum had wrote the epitaph for our gravestone. We stayed up. We have to keep the faith. Tuesday's atmosphere at Northampton was dire, I fully appreciate that it will die after being 2-0 after 16 minutes, but before the match, at kick-off, first 5 minutes, we should have carried on in the vein we supported superbly at Portsmouth. Drowned out the 69 away fans and created a carnival atmosphere for Greavsie's first game back. We were let down by the team, but we let them down too.
We have to keep the faith, there is no other option, far too many are being reactionary in the face of another defeat. We have played poorly in 75% of our matches this season, and still, we are not down and out, this league is terrible, there are teams there equally as bad if not worse than us. Our season will be defined by our upcoming home form, now is not the time for neighsayers, now is the time to get to Plainmoor and give some of those youngsters (some very promising and sadly all our finances can allow) as much encouragement as possible. Wilkinson has a bit of class about him, forget the miss, Goodwin is exciting, we know what Chappel can do, we were all over the moon when Labadie signed permanently.
The vast majority of us wanted a change of manager, we got what we wanted at a huge financial outlay to (some of) the board, to start moaning again after 5 minutes makes people out to be hypocrites. For some of us (i include myself here) we have made our beds and we must lie in them. We've only had 5 games of the new regime and that is just about all we can afford to give a new manager to work out how and who he wants to play. Don't get me wrong we have to start winning and fast, but, if we play with the tempo, creativity and innovation we showed in bucket-loads yesterday, and our goalkeeper doesn't inexplicably malfunction, we have a chance. As long as we have a chance, it is our duty to keep believing, keep supporting.
Relegation will mean the slow, painful demise of our great club. If we become defeatist now then we have had it, write off the last 14 games, shake hands with the fan next to you and book your holidays. If we forget the last two matches and remember how tall we felt after silencing 15000 fans at Pompey, we know we are capable of doing this. It won't be easy, it won't be pretty, but it can be done, we have it done it before.
totally agree Ben, and share the same sentiment of every word of your post. My opinions, my frustrations, the way I feel right now have been building up a long, long time before yesterday, the result yesterday was expected, the manner of it sadly wasn't. For me we haven't ended up in this position, because of the way we handled the martin Ling saga, nor because the decision was made to offer the job permanently to Alan Knill, nor was it because a further decision was made to replace Alan Knill with Chris Hargreaves.
The timeline of events that have led to us dropping once again to the foot of league 2 started possibly 18 months ago, decisions to prioritise spending on off field projects to the detriment of our team, admittedly things like grandstand had to be done we as a club had no choice , other projects could have been put on the back burner, like the training ground, just my opinion that others will not agree with no doubt.
forevertufc wrote:Michael Poke was NOT at fault for either of those Northampton goals, he should NEVER, NOT EVER, in whole history of football, EVEN HAD TO FACE THOSE TWO SHOTS, anyone who fails to see that, lacks the basic of all footballing knowledge.
Sorry, forgot to add, when Pokey did sadly have to face those shots, he was beaten by two very good and well taken shots, as Pokey did on both occasions the right thing, something that I've seen keepers at all levels coached to do by professional goalkeeper coach's.
This is bollocks. Highly concentrated, super strength, nuclear powered bollocks. If Carlsberg did bollocks. The sort of bollocks used by Bond villains who live in hollowed out volcanoes. It's so much bollocks that I can't even be bothered to type a fuller answer.
Ha, ha Matt, having seen our own Kenny Veysey coach goalkeepers, seen former Southampton and Spurs academy goalkeeper coach Jay Gibbs coach goalkeepers, and former Cheltenham and Exeter goalkeeper Mike Barrett coach goalkeepers as well as being an lowly qualified but experienced youth football coach my self, I do fully trust my own opinion and view point.
Now tell us what insight to football your view point is built from ?
Well the time ticked by and Matt who's been back on the forum failed to answer my question, Matt you strike me as someone who has never played football not even park league, I am I right ? never coached or seen formal coaching at any level I am right ? Help me here, if I'm wrong I'll owe you an apology, and might at least respect your view even though I disagree with it.
I'll help you, our team had more than enough and chances to break down both attacks, as Hector correctly pointed out the primary fault was with O'Connor/Nicho had both defended correctly Sinclair would have not been allowed to get either shot away, Pokey came out quickly narrowed the angle could have done little more to stop those goals going in with out a slice of huge luck.
Never played in goal myself, had number of park league games at right back, but what I have done is stood right behind a goal virtually touching the back of thegoal net , and had the ball launched at the goal by a Globus launcher at 80-90-100 mph to give some idea what keepers face and how little time they can have to get into the set position to save a shot, when you've done that my friend, feel free to come back and tell me those goals were Pokey's fault, both were very well struck shots, and he would barely had a few seconds to get set for both.
Six points out of fifteen for Hargreaves but in that time he has played four out of five matches away from home.
Since he has been here I reckon we have played a different formation in every game - reverting to the 4-4-2 which has served us so dreadfully at home all season. Guess what? - it didn't work again.
What is our best line up and best formation? Does Hargreaves know. Does anybody know.
We have (not counting the ones out on loan) Hawley,Benyon,Stockley,o'Brien,Goodwin,Wilkinson - thats six strikers which is quite frankly ridiculous.
We have signed Rudge and Stevens who appear to be ridiculous signings.
Clearly Goodwin is a striker - you could see on Tuesday that he isn't a winger. He is nowhere near as good as Bodin or Chapple out wide, he isn't that sort of player.
He scored twenty goals for Brightons youth team - his attributes seem to be pace,power and a fearsome shot.
Hargreaves says himself that he isn't a winger - so why on earth when we needed a goal on Tuesday night do we bring on Hawley who is quite frankly useless and should have his contract paid up now, and expect Goodwin to run through a ploughed field out wide?
Hargreaves clearly doesn't fancy O'Brien so there is no point in him remaining here either.
Labadie seems to want to fight (or bite) everybody. He is hardly a rocket scientist as he is one game away from a two match suspension - so that isn't the positive you mentioned earlier.
The manager has some serious thinking to do this week - he has to come up with the formation to win us the game next Saturday. He simply has to get it right. There is no margin for error at all.
Dave, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument because this is based on opinions and I respect yours but I would blame Poke for the first goal on Tuesday. If he stays on his line then Pearce comes across and mops up or pushes Sinclair wide, because Poke ends up in no man's land Pearce has no option but to attempt to protect the goal-line. As a keeper you can not run out 10 yards and just stop, you either stay on your line and trust your defence, or you follow through with your convictions and get at the feet of the striker. If you don't do either and end up nowhere inbetween you have to accept your share of the blame.
Second one I think O'Connor is knocked off the ball too easily and its a neat finish from a tight angle. He was aiming to hit it between Poke's legs and that's where it went, sometimes Poke gets a boot on it and saves it, more often than not he doesn't, its basically pot luck.
brucie wrote: He simply has to get it right. There is no margin for error at all.
Which more or less agrees with the sentiments of what I have been saying, and completely different to the 'we're doomed' 'we're a shambles' 'we are definitely down' I was reading on the way home last night.
Come on mate, we're on the same team here, we both know the precariousness of our situation and time is running out. We both know that there is enough time to sort this mess out though and that we have done it before. Hell, we probably had the exact same conversation this time last season! I agree that there doesn't seem to be much logic behind what is happening at the moment, this is only Hargreaves' 5th game in football league management, we all knew the task he faced was monumental. He has still got time (not much room for manoeuvre) to get it right. Despite how soul destroying the last 2 matches have been, we are still not adrift, we are not even bottom.
I remember walking out of Sixfields last season convinced we were down, I had accepted our fate, I was completely dejected, I did not see any hope. Those are the times to hit the panic button, not now in mid February. We have been much closer to danger in our history than the situation we now find ourselves in.
I am naturally optimistic when it comes to TUFC, but I am not blinkered, I remain realistic too. Yes we are in deep s**t, yes we need to pick up results soon, no, we are not dead and buried. It is still in our own hands.
bengull wrote:Dave, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument because this is based on opinions and I respect yours but I would blame Poke for the first goal on Tuesday. If he stays on his line then Pearce comes across and mops up or pushes Sinclair wide, because Poke ends up in no man's land Pearce has no option but to attempt to protect the goal-line. As a keeper you can not run out 10 yards and just stop, you either stay on your line and trust your defence, or you follow through with your convictions and get at the feet of the striker. If you don't do either and end up nowhere inbetween you have to accept your share of the blame.
Second one I think O'Connor is knocked off the ball too easily and its a neat finish from a tight angle. He was aiming to hit it between Poke's legs and that's where it went, sometimes Poke gets a boot on it and saves it, more often than not he doesn't, its basically pot luck.
Neither you nor Dave stands where I stand (down that end), that much is obvious from your reading of the second goal. From down that end, it was as clear as day that Poke came, then retreated for the second goal. Had he committed to coming, he would have got there. Had he even been slow and stuck with his decision to come, he'd have given himself a much better chance of stopping the shot by closing down the ball. As it was, he retreated to the safety of his line and was routinely beaten by a man who had about 6 months to make up his mind what to do.
Yeah, sure, the defending wasn't great, but Poke on his game (or a blindfolded Bobby Olejnik) makes two saves from two shots there.
I agree with Matt. Mr Poke is by no means the worst keeper in this division, but he can be indecisive on occasion. Usually he gets away with it, but there will be times when his shortcomings are mercilessly exposed. It could be that he needs a psychologist rather than a goalkeeping coach..
As for his kicking, this is such a simple act that all players sometimes get it wrong, usually by forgetting to focus on the ball and thinking instead of the brilliant pass which doesn't happen or the glory of the goal they're not going to score.
But always remember that it's a team game and there are eleven players in a team. A keeper can sometimes make a mistake, but he can also sometimes be left exposed by those around him.
bengull wrote:Dave, I don't wish to get into a protracted argument because this is based on opinions and I respect yours but I would blame Poke for the first goal on Tuesday. If he stays on his line then Pearce comes across and mops up or pushes Sinclair wide, because Poke ends up in no man's land Pearce has no option but to attempt to protect the goal-line. As a keeper you can not run out 10 yards and just stop, you either stay on your line and trust your defence, or you follow through with your convictions and get at the feet of the striker. If you don't do either and end up nowhere inbetween you have to accept your share of the blame.
Second one I think O'Connor is knocked off the ball too easily and its a neat finish from a tight angle. He was aiming to hit it between Poke's legs and that's where it went, sometimes Poke gets a boot on it and saves it, more often than not he doesn't, its basically pot luck.
Hadn't meant to turn this into a Northampton match revisited certainly not an argument with you or Matt know you both well. Have now for the first time actually watch the video back, my view point on the first regards the defending was spot on, and will repeat that as the full fault for both the goals, but will admit my view point as far as Pokey attempt to stop the first going is indeed wrong, and Ben your view point on it, is actually spot on, but the chronic defending leads to Pokey doing that, so won't hang him for it.
Matt's view point on both goals are wrong, watching the video back Pokey does come for the second, doesn't hesitate and certainly at no point does he retreat back to the safety of his line, he comes out, forms a barrier then uses his foot work to edge across and is beaten by a good finish.
brucie wrote:Six points out of fifteen for Hargreaves but in that time he has played four out of five matches away from home. Since he has been here I reckon we have played a different formation in every game - reverting to the 4-4-2 which has served us so dreadfully at home all season. Guess what? - it didn't work again.
What is our best line up and best formation? Does Hargreaves know. Does anybody know.
We have (not counting the ones out on loan) Hawley,Benyon,Stockley,o'Brien,Goodwin,Wilkinson - thats six strikers which is quite frankly ridiculous.
We have signed Rudge and Stevens who appear to be ridiculous signings.
Clearly Goodwin is a striker - you could see on Tuesday that he isn't a winger. He is nowhere near as good as Bodin or Chapple out wide, he isn't that sort of player.
He scored twenty goals for Brightons youth team - his attributes seem to be pace,power and a fearsome shot.
Hargreaves says himself that he isn't a winger - so why on earth when we needed a goal on Tuesday night do we bring on Hawley who is quite frankly useless and should have his contract paid up now, and expect Goodwin to run through a ploughed field out wide?
Hargreaves clearly doesn't fancy O'Brien so there is no point in him remaining here either.
Labadie seems to want to fight (or bite) everybody. He is hardly a rocket scientist as he is one game away from a two match suspension - so that isn't the positive you mentioned earlier.
The manager has some serious thinking to do this week - he has to come up with the formation to win us the game next Saturday. He simply has to get it right. There is no margin for error at all.
im sure theres a few on here that think they know.......
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forevertufc wrote:Matt's view point on both goals are wrong, watching the video back Pokey does come for the second, doesn't hesitate and certainly at no point does he retreat back to the safety of his line, he comes out, forms a barrier then uses his foot work to edge across and is beaten by a good finish.
Certainly agree it was a very calm and precise finish for the second. Not a single challenge from our left side, also.
