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absolutely spot on cambgull. i expect there would be some people who would call me a racist for what i wrote, because usually anyone who dares say such things gets called that. definitely not though. people need to read a dictionary and find out what the word means.

enough is enough and we cant keep letting everyone come here. we have to draw a line somewhere. the bad far outweighs the good and our housing, finances and resources are at breaking point. i dont blame anybody for wanting to come here. i dont blame them for wanting a better or easier life. its not their fault, we would probably do the same in their position.

i blame our past few bloody governments though for allowing it to happen and being too scared and bloody weak for letting it happen. giving in to the hand wringers, so called moral crusaders and pc brigade.

- Leave the EU.
- Close the borders for 5 years.
- Get rid of all illegal immigrants and failed asylum seekers.
- Sort out the immigration problem and have our own immigration system (similar to the one suggested already, have skilled migrants in that will help the country and not the ones that cause a nuisance).
- Reopen the borders in 5 years, with Britain in control.

Totally agree Danny. I'm still personally unsure on leaving the EU. As much as we'd save money which gets pumped into Brussels, we would also lose quite a bit of trade, perhaps more than we currently pay. That said, it will give us the opportunity to sort out the problems which have been created whilst we've been in the EU.

As I said before though, I don't think the EU is the problem, it's our own spineless mentality which is the problem.

Disagree on trade. Countries outside the EU still trade quite happily with EU countries and others, and we'd be free of all those petty restrictions. People are never going to stop trading. Business is business!

I still think we would lose out on trade, there would also be more taxes to pay which are currently free under the free trade state of the EU.

It is however, one con on a rather long list of pros to leave the EU.

Can't be arsed to correct all the rubbish on this thread (it would take an army of men many, many years). However, I will make the point to Chunky (because yours was the first point I saw, no other reason) that your suggestion that there is "sod all available" is complete and utter horse shit. 10 seconds on Google tells us that, within a 20 miles radius of my very, very rural home on Dartmoor (hardly a Mecca for employers) there are, as I type 6406 jobs available. 20 miles doesn't include Plymouth or Exeter.

Please don't start trying to tell us that foreigners have stolen all the jobs when, in fact, that's crap.

Matt.

what i said was, there are times when there is sod all available.

im not saying foreigners have stolen jobs but was simply making a point against when people say we have to have immigrant workers because brits wont do the sh1tty jobs which isnt true. on the other hand if brits are capable of working but unwilling to at least try, then most of their benefits should be chopped.granted, there are many who make a lot of excuses.

there are many that say they are better off not working at all, whereas they could still work and claim certain benefits anyway. some people who work can claim tax credits, council tax benefit and housing benefit. why should the tax payer foot the whole bill for these people.

it should be the responsibility of a brit to beat someone from say eastern europe in a straight up choice over who gets the job, because of the language barrier and supposed better standards of education, but yes some brits do themselves no favours in their attitude.

one big thing that annoys me is the myth that people from eastern europe are better workers, i know after working with them that they are not.

i know many people who have tried very hard to find unskilled, lower wage, crappy, you could train a monkey to do it jobs and they have been unsuccessful. also, in situations where factories close or other industries of this type when people find themselves unemployed and look elsewhere they have found no vacancies and the places have been full of foreign workers. whereas a few years previous there have been none.

like i said i dont blame the foreigners for wanting to come here for better wages, standards and a better life, although some find it isnt actually any better in some ways. its the last few governments faults for being weak, letting things get out of hand, and allowing everyone to just come here and we dont have any control over it and screaming racist at anyone who dares dispute the open door policy.

there needs to be greater control over who comes here because we are already full, we have high unemployment, especially the youth who dont get a chance (some are good kids who just need a break),our resources are already well overstretched and with the population ageing and high birth rates we cannot keep allowing people from abroad to keep coming. although migration figures are down, there are far more foreigners who migrate here than brits who migrate abroad.

i will say, if the shoe was on the other foot how would people from poland or lithuania react if suddenly we all started going to their country and tried to get jobs in a factory. not only would they not hire us on principle and probably laugh in our face but there are those who would stick a knife in you for daring to try and take their jobs.

lastly, i am a firm believer in the ethos that if you are really willing to work, you will do anything, you will find a job, you take anything that you can, you work hard and eventually it will pay off until you can get a job you want.

but that belief has been severely tested by some things i have seen and heard.

Matt is right and chunky is right too. The problem is that a man on benefits taking a minimum wage job then suddenly has to find the money out of his meagre wages for the things he got free before thus leaving him with pretty much sod all left at the end of a working month other than the self worth of knowing he worked damn hard for it. Then should the job go t*ts up the man then has to fight tooth and nail and wait an eternity to regain his benefits once again which is a common problem in the backs of minds. If the job went wrong is it all worth it?

Is this enough reward and motivation for them to get out there and get started?

ANOTHER DAY OF SHAME FOR THE USA:

Bradley Manning has been found guilty of espionage. A ridiculous judgement. He should be a hero of the American people. He exposed the darker side of the US state, including covered-up war crimes and crimes against humanity which the authorities wanted to keep hidden. Americans think they are free, but their democracy is a sham, and they allow themselves to be taken step by step into totalitarian slavery, in the name of freedom.

And it's happening here, and everywhere else too: petty rules and restrictions, oppressive laws and regulations, tyrannical bureaucracy, spy cameras, and censorship.

you are spot on gullscorer. for an idea about the usa and how it all works listen to george carlin. i never looked at things like this until i saw george on youtube.the older he got the more political he got.he is amazing and really makes you think as well as laugh.

there is also stuff where he has been on news programmes and panel shows with politicians and social commentators. george ripped em to pieces and stole the show.

there is loads of his stuff on youtube that you would like.

heres a few things making the points similar to your post.enjoy.







having a bit of trouble embedding video.hope these links will be ok.

Thanks chunkygull. Excellent videos.

he was brilliant. i bet the establishment thought he was dangerous.

there is loads of his best stuff on youtube. the older stuff when he was younger was more comedy. all of it was quality though.

"Of course, there are women who are innocent victims of men’s violence, but there are just as many men who are victims of female aggression. The whole monstrous lie that it is ‘patriarchy’, i.e. all men who oppress women, is a lie. Why did this lie ever become held up as the truth? Because Marxist women across the world were looking for a just cause to fund their politics.

In 1971, I opened the first ever shelter for battered women and their children. My cause was soon hijacked because, as far as the radical part of the women’s movement were concerned they had found their Trojan horse. By deeming all men as guilty of violence and oppression and all women victims of men’s violence and oppression they had the tools and the machine that could create a billion dollar industry that could be rolled out across the western world. The feminized media, the judiciary, all the caring agencies and governments bowed to this persuasive argument."

Erin Pizzey. Read her full article here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/fe ... more-50363

"Based on their specific entitlement politics mentality, feminist leadership is willing to advocate for the sacrifice of the human/civil rights of the opposite gender (men) in order to further the agenda of feminism. This can be seen in every area of feminist advocacy, as they scramble to exclude men from any consideration, any benefit, any recognition of humanity which they demand that society offer women."

Della Burton: Read her full article here: http://www.avoiceformen.com/feminism/ni ... more-47195

"Feminists insist that we are capable of doing everything a man can do and we can do it better. When we don’t do it better it’s because men had the environment rigged to our disadvantage."

Diana Davison. http://www.avoiceformen-uk.com/

with regards to the ukip guy godfrey bloom -

now, everyone tends to shout racist about any slight reference made about anything foreign or different colour, culture or immigration issues and that really gets on my nerves (read what it means in the dictionary), but how daft was this bloke?

his party were just starting to gain a bit of support and this berk may have just set them back years.which i think would be a shame because a lot of things they have said lately have been quite sensible and a different outlook.

now many may agree with him, many may still use his terminology, but you just cant speak like that in public, it might not have been meant as racist but it is very outdated and could cause offense.that kind of language hasnt been heard in public much since alf garnett was down the pub with his mates ( and that humour was supposed to be ironic and sarcastic to people like garnett).

those that agree with him or talk like that at home would probably not admit it or would not vote for him because like them or not people want to be seen to be pc and they want their politicians to be squeaky clean.

nobody i know has spoken like that for a few decades apart from my grandad (god rest his soul) and that was mainly just a generational thing.

now im not leftie, guardianista, right on or pc at all, in fact i hate all that crap, each to their own, but who the hell talks like that anyway, especially a public figure. we all might make a comment at home about peoples differences or there may be jokes etc, but there is no room in public for that sort of generalising or potential offensive grammar.

call me cynical but he definitely purposely, methodically said it, he either thought his bretheren would find it amusing, or he thought that sort of language would get a reaction and a bit of publicity. indeed, his point that he made has been brought up countless times in the past but this week has provoked more thought opinion and debate than ever before. even some tv presenters commenting that he had a point but then basically saying what a tw@t.

whatever it was it has backfired on the party, many in private probably agree with him but would never say it in public

whilst i agree with the point that maybe our government shouldnt be moaning about deficits, debt, austerity, causing job cuts and making the benefit system an even bigger balls up, whilst every year we are giving money away to foreign countries and with a bit of common sense that money could do a lot of good here.

i mean finally people have realised that a lot of problems in africa cant be solved with throwing money at it. the place is corrupt and rotten to the core, run by despots, dictators, fake kings, terrorists and cartels. a lot of money that has gone there never got to where it was meant to.gold and marble palaces, ak47's and mercedes cars anyone.....

india has more billionaires than the uk and has huge growth figures so why are we still sending them billions.

now, im all for helping people where we can, especially those less fortunate through no fault of their own but when there is much to do in our own country, people losing their jobs through cuts and there are huge housing shortages which could be eased by a few billion spent on building new, thus giving the building industry a boost and then the countries economy usually kick-starts from there, so really, should we be sending money to help foreign countries?

i know its all about agreements with the G8 and all that but there is just no common sense in it whilst we have so many problems of our own. would countries stop trading with us if we opted out of such things, i very much doubt it.

I pretty well agree with you Chunkygull. But I would just add that people seem to take offence far too easily these days. Thanks to political correctness, there are far too many new offences introduced into law to protect people who need no protection but may simply feel offended. This has a knock-on effect: there is a slow but steady erosion of the rights of free speech and freedom of expression, and a matching increase in censorship. Indeed there is growing self-censorship, because people are increasingly afraid to express themselves freely. This can only result in the decline and slow death of democracy.