Fleetwood Town v Torquay United - 7/9/13

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 08 Sep 2013, 14:42

AustrianAndyGull wrote:
That may have been exilegull although I could be mistaken. If it was he is entitled to his opinion and as regards Harding being totally exposed in the middle yesterday he has a valid point, Fleetwood overwhelmed us in there but I cannot explain why Harding was so awful both at Morecambe and Northampton.

I never said he wasn't entitled to it - I was saying it due to people thinking I was slagging off the players. I wasn't - I was merely questioning what he had said.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 08 Sep 2013, 15:34

Actually the horses arse I was referring to wasn't you at all - it was royal gull.

You didn't "blow my post apart" anymore than I "lambasted" Rice for that matter. Everything I said was entirely reasonable. The service to Benyon and Howe wasn't any better at the end of last season - the difference was that they were a far more potent combination. Add to that the likes of Yeoman and Jarvis who were chipping in with goals and its not really difficult to see where the problem lies.
Harding could have played in the team last years but we would still be scoring. He isn't the problem, its the strikers.

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 08 Sep 2013, 16:11

I have yet to really see Hawley make any kind of forward run or movement in that regard, it would appear he is quite happy to have the ball played up to him and hold defenders off and let Ball do all the leg work. Ball is not potent though so we have 2 central strikers who not only are struggling for chances but also don't score. I know Hawley scored a great goal at Morecambe but he had to create room for himself and even then he was 20 yards out, it wasn't really a goalscoring opportunity but he took it. I'd prefer Ball to be holding things up and Hawley making runs but it's not working out like that.

We get nothing in the way of forward support from Cameron, Chappell tries his best but is often forced into blind alleys or it just doesn't quite come off and so we look to the middle to inspire some creativity and vision and we've got Mansell and Harding in there. I do have some sympathy for the strikers because they have nothing to work from only each other and what Chappell offers and that's it but they need to put themselves about a bit more and make something happen.

I'd say we have potential problems all over the pitch which 6 or 7 games in are now manifesting and showing no signs of going away. In defence maybe we need Cruise in there, Pearce looks ropey at times but he needs time as you can see he has got something, Downes and Tonge are ok. The midfield is a whitewash, Chappell emerges with credit and is the only bright spot, defensively Mansell and Harding are both struggling and going forward we're getting zero from Bodin or Cameron whilst up top we have Ball who gets no service either for his head or chances at goal and likewise Hawley who is static. Benyon may be my choice to start against Rochdale, he is industrious and busy and will get goals.

I've painted a doom and gloom picture there but I still maintain we have some decent players but Knill is just getting nothing out of them at the moment and we are beginning to look predicatble and pedestrian once more. Anyway, on that bombshell i'm off to wash the car.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 08 Sep 2013, 16:37

brucie wrote:Actually the horses arse I was referring to wasn't you at all - it was royal gull.

You didn't "blow my post apart" anymore than I "lambasted" Rice for that matter. Everything I said was entirely reasonable. The service to Benyon and Howe wasn't any better at the end of last season - the difference was that they were a far more potent combination. Add to that the likes of Yeoman and Jarvis who were chipping in with goals and its not really difficult to see where the problem lies.
Harding could have played in the team last years but we would still be scoring. He isn't the problem, its the strikers.

I didn't say you were referring to me, you REALLY are a horses arse

ferrarilover · Post by **ferrarilover** » 08 Sep 2013, 16:50

brucie wrote:Actually the horses arse I was referring to wasn't you at all - it was royal gull.

You didn't "blow my post apart" anymore than I "lambasted" Rice for that matter. Everything I said was entirely reasonable. The service to Benyon and Howe wasn't any better at the end of last season - the difference was that they were a far more potent combination. Add to that the likes of Yeoman and Jarvis who were chipping in with goals and its not really difficult to see where the problem lies.
Harding could have played in the team last years but we would still be scoring. He isn't the problem, its the strikers.

That you've managed to get to your age and know so little about the game in which you invest so much time is so amazing it's almost impressive.

Of course, you don't REALLY blame the strikers, you, like anyone else with eyes can see that the central two are the ones at fault, you just want us all to think you blame the strikers so that we might unite in hatred of a common enemy and take our anger away from the team. Really, you're the greatest asset the club has and I, for one, thank you for your sacrifice.

Matt.

AustrianAndyGull · Post by **AustrianAndyGull** » 08 Sep 2013, 17:00

HEADS UP LADS AND LASSES!!

We're going to go to Spotland and we are going to support the lads and they are going to show us what they really can do now. They understand.

Like Jon Bon Jovi said in one of his multitude of tedious soft rock embarrassments - KEEP THE FAITH!!!!

Post by **Dave** » 08 Sep 2013, 17:15

royalgull wrote:Spoke to Ricey this morning, he's a bit annoyed about the 3rd goal but he said he simply lost it in the sun, went for the cross and just couldn't see it so more one of them things, the northampton goal was a stunning first time cross which dipped with pace he couldn't have come for that, if he had he'd never have got there. No one other than their forward expected that cross which is a lesson in itself.

Totaly agree, watched that goal a few times, Ricey was right not to come for that cross, had he, it would have still ended up in the bag of our net, and Ricey would have been at fault. What actually did was make a pretty decent attempt to keep it out.

supergulls · Post by **supergulls** » 08 Sep 2013, 17:19

Knill has a very annoying trait that he will not rotate the squad when at the present time it is clear that the current crop are not cutting the mustard. How long do we leave it before we make changes. As said above if they are not performing rotate the team and see how the replacements who are hungry for minutes perform. At the moment the same team starts week in week out, the same players come on every game and the same players are left in the stand continuously.

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 08 Sep 2013, 17:59

supergulls wrote:Knill has a very annoying trait that he will not rotate the squad when at the present time it is clear that the current crop are not cutting the mustard. How long do we leave it before we make changes. As said above if they are not performing rotate the team and see how the replacements who are hungry for minutes perform. At the moment the same team starts week in week out, the same players come on every game and the same players are left in the stand continuously.

Yes - this trait is irritating me, too. The FL Trophy game against Portsmouth was an ideal opportunity to give some of the so-called 'fringe' players a run out as many of the other clubs did. Mansell and Nicholson were omitted of course, but Craig and Yeoman could have been given a run out at some time. Can't remember if Niall Thompson played. If not, he also should have had time. I see that Tisdale is playing some of the City youngsters and it seems to be working okay for them so far. I remember pre-season we were gloating because he hadn't made any signings. He's a canny manager. We on the other hand, if Matt's hints are correct, are about to 'offload' some of our younger players.

A question which probably Matt can answer - is Mozika a free agent and so can sign permanently, or is he registered with another club and therefore he will be a loan signing ?

TeenageGull · Post by **TeenageGull** » 08 Sep 2013, 18:06

Can't remember if Niall Thompson played.

no he didn't, he wasn't even on the bench as well as Yeoman or Craig

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 08 Sep 2013, 18:10

[quote="brucie"] Flapper Rice let the third one in. If he saved it from being 10-1 then god help us, we are relegated already. Rice was also at fault for the goal at Northampton (and indeed almost cost us at home last week due to his hesitation) I fully accept that he has been playing better this season but I am a realist and unfortunately he is always going to be prone to errors and letting cheap goals in.

Brucie - just thank the Gods you were born to be a Gulls supporter and not a Grecians fan. Whatever would you have said about Arthur Krysack ?????????

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 08 Sep 2013, 18:12

TeenageGull wrote:Can't remember if Niall Thompson played.

no he didn't, he wasn't even on the bench as well as Yeoman or Craig

Thanks for that. I didn't think he was included.

Plymouth Gull · Post by **Plymouth Gull** » 08 Sep 2013, 18:21

tomogull wrote: Yes - this trait is irritating me, too. The FL Trophy game against Portsmouth was an ideal opportunity to give some of the so-called 'fringe' players a run out as many of the other clubs did. Mansell and Nicholson were omitted of course, but Craig and Yeoman could have been given a run out at some time. Can't remember if Niall Thompson played. If not, he also should have had time. I see that Tisdale is playing some of the City youngsters and it seems to be working okay for them so far. I remember pre-season we were gloating because he hadn't made any signings. He's a canny manager. We on the other hand, if Matt's hints are correct, are about to 'offload' some of our younger players.

A question which probably Matt can answer - is Mozika a free agent and so can sign permanently, or is he registered with another club and therefore he will be a loan signing ?

Mozika is a free agent, so he will be signing permanently. Was released by Scunny after an injury-plagued spell.

As for your other point about squad rotation, I agree entirely. A lad I know of from the pioneer league made his professional debut for City on Tuesday!

tomogull · Post by **tomogull** » 08 Sep 2013, 18:33

A question which probably Matt can answer - is Mozika a free agent and so can sign permanently, or is he registered with another club and therefore he will be a loan signing ?[/quote]

Mozika is a free agent, so he will be signing permanently. Was released by Scunny after an injury-plagued spell.

As for your other point about squad rotation, I agree entirely. A lad I know of from the pioneer league made his professional debut for City on Tuesday![/quote]

Thanks for that, Nick. As for City - exactly ! Tisdale encourages his youngsters by giving them opportunities.

Oh, and another gripe from a grumpy old git. I listened to the first half commentary on the radio yesterday (gave up at half time 'cos I could tell by Dave Thomas' exasperation that the game was already lost) - I think that any team that plays the 'Captain Pugwash' theme every time their team scores should have 20 points deducted. How annoying was that ?? And another thing - just because there were no Premier Fantasy matches yesterday, NO Final Score on the tele. At least there used to be a half-hour 'slot' for the PROPER fans of football !

Matt85 · Post by **Matt85** » 08 Sep 2013, 19:08

I was at the game yesterday sat within earshot of Alan Knill, I have had a quick read through the posts and will apologise in advance if I say anything has already been said.

One the first things that struck me was the comparison in the size and physicality of both teams, now, I know that down the years we've never been known to be a big side physically, but yesterday we were pressed and muscled off the ball across the whole park, we looked like a very small team that was easily intimidated and I think we gave Fleetwood way too much respect. Having read that Mozika is on his way, I'm anticipating that he will add some of the power and presence we are so desperately in need of.

From the back Fleetwood were solid throughout, through middle of the park and out-wide. We looked way out of our depth. They imposed a high tempo from the word go and it only took a matter of seconds before it came clear that we were going to be in for a long afternoon. Nothing was getting past their centre half who put out a very Branston 'esq performance, they were stronger, faster, more confident and essentially more up up for it, which will bring me on to my next point.

When Knill came in there were many who jumped on the AK bandwagon, and although I was more reluctant, I didn't jump on his back straightaway. I decided to hold back on my opinion. I had not seen or heard any Alan Knill interviews before he came to Torquay United, now I know that every manager has their own style and individual way of doing things but my initial reaction was that there's something missing there. I may be being unjust but I was left feeling less than convinced that he had enough about him to galvinise a team that was so down and out at the time. People will be quick to say he kept us up, but an interesting point that I did read earlier is that we finished closer to the drop zone at the end of the season on points than when Knill arrived.

Had that been a Torquay United side of a 2 or 3 years ago I feel we would have easily competed yesterday. We lacked grit, determination, bottle and confidence, just some of those ingredients you need to grind out those 1 nil wins!

My point is I'm still not convinced Knill has enough fire in the belly to carry us through to where we want to be. I'm not going to sit and slate him though, not yet, the players also need to take responsibility. Knill shouted more than once from the touchline yesterday "block the cross", to which a moment later an unblocked cross led to our third goal. In fact I don't think we manged to block one cross yesterday???

However, by in large it wasn't the most abismal Torquay United performance I have ever witnessed, that came at Spotland last season, bar a few from our relegation season. We do have potential, which again is something that is frustrating me at the moment, it's like a cream tea without jam!, also the phrase 'time to gel', Wimbledon immediately springs to mind.

It's also frustrating to see Craig and Lathrope being wasted on the sideline. Manse and Harding I feel both have poor distribution and Craig, IMO, is one of the best distributors of the ball we have, Thompson, whose perfect cross led to our equaliser on the opening day, again just left on the sidelines, all players I feel could have made a difference yesterday in one way or another. Very annoying.

To be fair to lads though I have read a few comments from Fleetwood fans saying that that was one of the best home displays they have seen in a long while, there was a mention that a performance like that hadn't been seen at home since the days they were dominating in the BSP. They were also quick to praise Ricey.

I will be at Spotland next week bring it on. My brother in law is a Dale fan :} who was at the derby game yesterday and said that both Bury and Rochdale were poor and the overall quality of the game wasn't great.

With that in mind bring it on!!!

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