Chris Hargreaves services?

PhilGull · Post by **PhilGull** » 27 Apr 2015, 11:46

What exactly do we have at Seale Hayne and does the club own it? Is it just a field or some buildings too (I'm assuming it's not the whole place as that must be worth millions.)

Post by **Dave** » 27 Apr 2015, 12:05

PhilGull wrote:What exactly do we have at Seale Hayne and does the club own it? Is it just a field or some buildings too (I'm assuming it's not the whole place as that must be worth millions.)

No, the club does not own it, it is more than a field to be fair. The only changing rooms were converted into offices, there are portacabins there, which are treatment and storage, and there are some smaller areas off the main training pitch, a good friend of mine works for the company the club had to call in to remove the stones of the main training pitch after it was levelled, he said to me TUFC are paying the price for doing the work on the cheap.

Post by **Dave** » 27 Apr 2015, 12:19

I do NOT think the club has a divine right to gain promotion, nor do I think the club has to gain promotion, that's not what I said. I said, I want promotion , every self respecting TUFC should feel the same, every one who works for the club should want that as well, manager, players right through.

This we should lower our expectations, we should just accept that we're a conference club now, is the nuclear grade nonsense ( to coin a phrase from Matt) that's got our club right where it is today, the ambition, desire, thinking and attitude around our club has got to change.

They're at least that would have started this season with a lower budget than us that should never have finished above us, fact. Not trying to call you out Rich, but your petrol analogy is nonsense as well. Martin Ling 2011/12 took out the TUFC car with enough petrol for 300 miles and managed to drive it 450 miles, because he knew how to drive the car to get the most efficient use out of it.

And that's the point, any manager at any club has to manage the situation put in front of them, some do it well, others can't, Chris Hargreaves next season has to get the best out of the situation he can, last season he didn't get out half of what he should have done, even with a reduced budget we'll still have more to play with than 75% of division, if CH can get an extra 20 % out of it, that ML did, he'll get us promoted, so stop peddling excuses, there are none.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 27 Apr 2015, 12:23

forevertufc wrote:he said to me TUFC are paying the price for doing the work on the cheap.

They've been paying the price for "doing work on the cheap" ever a few seasons now, and the result is where we currently find ourselves....

Post by **Dave** » 27 Apr 2015, 12:26

Scott Brehaut wrote: They've been paying the price for "doing work on the cheap" ever a few seasons now, and the result is where we currently find ourselves....

And why have we been doing things on the cheap ? Because of a lack of ambition, desire, and a belief that we can be no better than a tiny club in the South West, which belongs in the conference.

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 27 Apr 2015, 12:59

tomogull wrote:I'm for giving Hargreaves more time but if he hasn't learnt from his failings this season and there is no improvement by November, then we should look elesewhere. Let's knock this 'it's the training pitch' excuse on the head. Before Seale Hayne, the club was using Newton Abbot racecourse as a training ground and that was under water much of the time yet somehow we managed to get promotions under Leroy and Paul Buckle. And we didn't have the facility of the all weather pitches at Paignton College.

Back in O'Farrell's time, and after O'Farrell, the players used to be sent on the Petitior Traning Run, up and down the cliff path, which they hated. I reckon it built up their stamina levels. There must be a question mark over some of the players fitness when you look at the number of points we've let slip this season in the closing stages of matches.

goodluckgull · Post by **goodluckgull** » 27 Apr 2015, 13:26

The reason TUFC left the racecourse was basically they were forced off. There has been a huge investment into the racecourse and the owners didn't want Torquay training there anymore. I believe Torquay United was paying £10,000 a year for using the racecourse. All evidence that the club trained there has been removed or pulled down. It wasn't ideal, but Scott had established a decent surface over the years.
Also believe it was Colin Lee who done the deal with a farmer to get Newton 66's training ground and that the club is renting the land.

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 27 Apr 2015, 14:08

forevertufc wrote:I do NOT think the club has a divine right to gain promotion, nor do I think the club has to gain promotion, that's not what I said. I said, I want promotion , every self respecting TUFC should feel the same, every one who works for the club should want that as well, manager, players right through.

This we should lower our expectations, we should just accept that we're a conference club now, is the nuclear grade nonsense ( to coin a phrase from Matt) that's got our club right where it is today, the ambition, desire, thinking and attitude around our club has got to change.

They're at least that would have started this season with a lower budget than us that should never have finished above us, fact. Not trying to call you out Rich, but your petrol analogy is nonsense as well. Martin Ling 2011/12 took out the TUFC car with enough petrol for 300 miles and managed to drive it 450 miles, because he knew how to drive the car to get the most efficient use out of it.

And that's the point, any manager at any club has to manage the situation put in front of them, some do it well, others can't, Chris Hargreaves next season has to get the best out of the situation he can, last season he didn't get out half of what he should have done, even with a reduced budget we'll still have more to play with than 75% of division, if CH can get an extra 20 % out of it, that ML did, he'll get us promoted, so stop peddling excuses, there are none.

The wage bill probably was more than 75% of what other clubs had but probably over 50% of that was used up by the serial failures which got us relegated in the first place so in reality we had no hope of gaining promotion with the them at the forefront of the push! No one wanted them so we were stuck with them. Hardly CH's fault and this you have to deal with what you got nonsense is the weakest argument going.

Seeing as you enjoyed the car analogy so much I will give you another one. This time a Formula 1 comparison. Get given a McLaren this season and then get blamed because you are not winning races in it because they have won races in the past and you should be able to do the same with what you have got? Hmmm - I do not read anywhere that Fernando Alonso is a sh1t driver because he is unable to win races this season?

The estimated wage structure being talked about for next year (should the new board not change this) would probably make you cry if you were in CH's shoes yet people still expect promotion? Crazy.

Trust me - I am hurting by the reality which the club is in and I would love nothing more than promotion back to the league but I am realistic as to the situation and likelihood there is of this currently happening. Others, however, are choosing to find a figurehead for this frustration and abusing them in some attempt to deflect from something which they really need to be man enough to face up to.

But hey, don't worry about the truth, carry on with your FARCEGREAVES campaign to bring further suffering.

Post by **Scott Brehaut** » 27 Apr 2015, 15:05

RichInns, Dave (forever) has never referred to CH as "Farcegreaves". Your anger should be directed at others - and it's easy to search on here and see who it is that is calling him that (and not surprising either....)

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 27 Apr 2015, 15:21

Scott Brehaut wrote:RichInns, Dave (forever) has never referred to CH as "Farcegreaves". Your anger should be directed at others - and it's easy to search on here and see who it is that is calling him that (and not surprising either....)

Please do not take it that I am accusing Dave of the Farcegreaves label and if it reads that way I personally apologise to him. You are quite correct in that I have never seem him refer to Hargreaves as that on here.

It was more the label I have seen (sometimes used on here but mostly on another forum). I disagree with forever but have gone to the extreme viewpoint held by a lot of people (which perhaps does not best represent forvever's posts) for usuage to illustrate just how poor I believe some peoples behaviour to be. I think Dave got entwined in my ranting's as he replied to me original post which I went on to reply back to - but not personally at forever but rather to a the 'Farcegreaves' audience.

Post by **Dave** » 27 Apr 2015, 16:50

I have no problem with Richinns, his posting style or opinions. Can I assure Rich that my posting are not a campaign against CH either I want the club to succeed so ultimately I want CH to succeed as well, the one thing that grates my gears are excuses, I hate them with a passion, everyone starts out with the intentions to get things right in all walks of life, a simple fact of life, that doesn't always happen.

Just be honest, don't want hear this nonsense about training grounds, wages or anything else, others clubs in the conference who finished above us have the same issues, in some cases worse affected than us, I do not feel the need Rich to come out on the forum every five minutes telling people I know personally ( I did say last week Ajala had offers and was likely not going to be here next season

but, maybe, I might just know what some of our players are earning, I may just know what some of them have been offered, so I will not cry at the player budget CH is likely to have at his disposal, the reason for that Rich, is he will 'still' have more to work with than the majority of the conference.

And that's the point being missed, Braintree, Dover, FC Halifax, Chester and the list goes on, what on earth do we think they can afford pay their players still not as much as us, and this whole wages thing is nothing new, what does anyone think ML was paying (£750pw ave)compared to Northampton (£2000 pw ave) on sliding scale it's the same today as it's always been.

yellowmonkey · Post by **yellowmonkey** » 27 Apr 2015, 17:03

Dont know if this has been mentioned before but the south west F.A. have good facilities at coach road, the old Newton Abbot FC. Why not use those, its floodlight and a good pitch.

Post by **Louis** » 27 Apr 2015, 19:13

I have been umming and arhhing on this for a while. I have been sat on the fence. My gut says keep him and let him stay and show us what he's made of (with a team of his say and not what's inherited) but at the same time I do think that if an experienced manager is looking for a job by the sea all the way down 'ere then we should go for it. Doubt there are too many takers though. Either way bring on next season, it just has to be better than that one.

lucy6lucy · Post by **lucy6lucy** » 27 Apr 2015, 19:45

A swing in vote so far, CH when I voted last night was 38% to stay! he's now 62%. I voted to keep him. This is his make or break as manager next season, and he probably knows it. Let's get behind him and his new recruits. Many predicted this season a mid table finish and we did this. Many predicted get rid of the high earners, mission accomplished. So in reality, the team have delivered what we expected in August. I just hope the new owners have promotion in there agenda. A budget that can be competitive and have extra funds to aid a promotion push.

Dave_Pougher · Post by **Dave_Pougher** » 27 Apr 2015, 20:35

A well reasoned debate going on here, one which if I'm honest I didn't expect so I thank you all for that, I hope it continues.

I'm just a little bit uncomfortable with my feeling that CH really put himself "out there" For the job a long while before AK was removed, leaving me wondering which he wanted more, the job or the location? Of course I have no evidence to justify my concerns, just a gut feeling, does he still have a shop or shops in Devon? I don't know. But when you see players dead on their feet after 60 mins and the extra weight one or two seem to have carried this season you have to wonder just how much actual training and tactical practice happens between matches.

A few have mentioned training facilities as a factor but when you see what Leroy had at his disposal with no assistant then you have to wonder should the facilities been A1 would this season been any different, I'm not convinced it would have been. Not for one minute would I be advocating a "Leroy return" it was just his time, unfortunately for us and others a one off.

Will CH's time be next season? Not sure it will be.

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