TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

Andy, you'll almost always be misunderstood on here. Rather than get upset when it happens, try expecting it and then you might find things a little easier. It's a forum, your view is equally as welcome as the next persons, you do love a rant though

Plainmoor78 wrote: ↑01 May 2018, 16:29 I think you have got this all out of context. Higgins and Lathorpe are in the position of having their careers finished, whilst having to support their families and I doubt very much those two earned an absolute fortune during the careers. They are both victims of fate which can befall anyone, they didn't choose for what has happened to them to occur, it is bad fortune.
The fans make their sacrifice out of choice. They don't have to attend matches or pay for raffle tickets etc. You yourself have made a choice not to attend matches, so can anyone. If the fans are victims of is because they have chosen to be so.

At the risk of coming across as an insensitive old sod, back in 1985, I was turning out for Bishopsteignton United in SDL div 3 (1st team) & div 6 ( reserves ) Lewis Parker was 1st team mgr & Stevie Sprague reserve mgr any way I digress.
We were getting towards the end of the season & we were at Thurlestone & as left full back I managed to rupture my anterior cruciate ligament in my left knee sliding in on an attempted tackle.
The thing I'm getting at is my knee swelled up so I was in able to go to work the next day (no company sick pay, for the first week & then only SSP ) No hand outs for me I'm afraid to say, had to get back at it asap to bring in a proper age to pay the essentials is mortgage ,electric ,gas ,poll tax etc etc
Why do we feel that it is necessary to fund an injured players misfortune ? Surely there was an insurance policy in place to cover wages due to serious or career ending injury, or at least their contracts would be paid up in full ?
I had to have operations in '87, '89, knee reconstruction '91, clean up op in '08 & now am waiting for a complete knee replacement within the next 18 months at the tender age of 50.
Has it stopped me working ? It has restricted me on what I can & can't do.
Has it put me at a disadvantage ? No, I've made it work for me.
Have I lost out ? No, I've raised a family with my supportive wife, bought & paid for our house, all this done despite suffering a horrendous crippling injury at such an early age.
In other words bad fortune can strike anyone at any time, yes it's sad but you have to stand on your own 2 feet to survive, harsh but so very very true, I speak from real experience.

Andy does have a po0int though he didn't put it across very well. Fans giving money to a player whose career on the pitch is over. and that is the crux of the matter. it's only his football career that's over. they sometimes go on as if the guy has died. he is still capable of work in other areas. and able to earn a decent income. in fact many part-timers earn even better wages because they have a job outside the game. secondly. footballers are covered by insurance and there is a pension payout if their career ends. so they have a pretty decent pot to dip into. We can all come across hard times. I know that better than most. my health has dipped to levels I would never have expected when I played football. but there are no collections for me. not that I'm asking for one. but look at how the country generally treats disabled people. the genuine ones are being hammered. and many of the propaganda papers. are fuelling that with distorted news.
Looking back at the club years ago. Many had a right go at Mike Bateson. (i bet they would bite his hand off now) he had insults thrown at his family and nearly everyone couldn't wait to see the back of him. no wonder he got well and truly fed up propping us up. yet he cared. I remember lying in my hospital bed and having a personal card from him wishing me well. you wouldn't see that from Osbourne and co. I had loads of calls from the players too. made quite a few friends who are still in contact today. They had a heart. not now. journeymen who go from club to club, getting what they can. no Ian Twitchens now. no Kevin Hills, Kevin Nicolsons. Lee Mansell. and others.
it's such a shame when the attitudes of the millionaires are slowly percolating down to amateur levels. clubs are not exempt from criticism either

Agree with everyone's view on this one. I don't see a issue with some sort of benefit gig as such. Do nothing and you don't care ...do too much and everyone feels it's too much.

Do for others what you would hope would be done for yourself ......though for most of us no one would give a shit

I think this is going off my original point slightly. I never said the club shouldn't show their support for ex players, i said that they should also show their support for the people who keep the club going and most deserve a helping hand too - the fans. There is no balance and whilst it has rightly been pointed out that it's up to the fans as individuals whether or not to put their hands in their pockets for these players, wouldn't it be great if the club put on a free concert and fans appreciation evening at Plainmoor or something like that to show their gratitude.

It always seems to be gratitude for players, staff, ex players, ex staff which is admirable but it's never for the folk who keep churning through the turnstiles and the club shop week in week out unless someone dies. Unless a long standing fan dies. Only then do clubs consider doing something like a tribute or a day out for the family involved.

I'm a firm believer you should always tell people you love them and appreciate them when they are alive to truly appreciate the sentiments. No good telling them when they've passed away is it?

I just think that clubs in general, not just Torquay.

Yorkie think this discussion going to get a bit boring mate if it drags on anymore..some people agree some disagree ....we could discuss the price of milk and it would end up same way

What annoys me is we got relegated and now we hear about massive budgets and all these trialists.....
Rediculous

Fair enough Westie. It matter to me but not to others it seems so i'm with you.

How much is a pint of milk anyway?

Those farmers get a raw deal don't they? But not as much as the cows do.

Well I'm a delivery driver , drive class 2 trucks. I deliver to around 3 or 4 farms every week. When people talk about the poor farmer ....or how hard it is for them...
Well I've never seem yet a poor farmer...the amount of classic cars I've seen stashed away in barns or top of the range cars is unbelievable. All mod cons everywhere !!

No doubt they work bloody hard for it !!! Why not work hard and have best things !!

So when I go to Morrison's and I have the option of paying extra for milk to ' give extra 10p to the farmer ' I don't feel its needed
Anyhow I used to do a milkround before school in the 90s and a pint then was 38p. Now 4 pints are a quid odd....
Obviously the luxury of having a daily milkround bring fresh milk in glass bottle costs !
I also don't think milk tastes like it used too. I used to love that cream bit on top of the pint , the silver top ones ...
Now it tastes so flat with no body to it.

I get what you’re saying Andy.

As fans, if we allow ourselves to be ridiculed and taken for mugs, clubs will take advantage. The sensible ones start to see this and distance themselves. I’ve always been a big fan of the club but this season is one too many for me and that’s why I’m taking the decision to keep my money and not spend it on a ST etc.

Football plays on the emotions and like you, I wish Damon and Ryan well but I feel no obligation to put money into any fund. They will be able to find work of a non-physical nature that allows them to support their families just like a number of fans on the Popside each week.

Hold onto yourself, Squadron Leader, because you're not going to like this. The saving grace is it won't be here long, because the admin will sling it in the bin before because of all the swears...

Yorkieandy wrote: No doubt i'll get misunderstood with the following comments by the usual suspects but here goes...

If you get misunderstood once, you got misunderstood. If you get misunderstood all the time, you are the problem. Don't **** whinge about it; change.

Yorkieandy wrote: Season ends against Ebbsfleet and so it seems does any recognition or reward for the fans.

I thought Merse talked a load of bollocks (he does, and his half-bolded retort can get to ****, I'm not arsed), but this takes the biscuit. Of the 22 engagements from the official Twitter handle of the club since the end of the Ebbsfleet match:

1 was Gravy Boy's post match "thoughts" (as if that **** does any thinking of his own, the prick)
1 was the match highlights
1 was a RT of a message from Efete thanking the club for his time on loan and wishing us all the best for the future
1 was a RT of a message from the National Football Museum which referenced the untimely demise of former player Justin Fashnu (black and gay, that will annoy the Brexit Bunch)
3 have been about the U16s training on the pitch
1 was a link for a gallery of images taken over the course of the season, mostly the images are of the fans.
3 were tweets or RT relating to the Schools finals held at Plainmoor
1 was a RT of some Vanarama promotional bullshit for a Nissan Kumquat (which is a **** abysmal car. Save yourself the bother and, if you must buy a disgusting 'soft roader', get whatever Hyundai are calling the ix35 these days. It's still not a particularly good motor, but it's better than the alternatives)
1 was a RT relating to TULFC's match against Charlestown LFC being off.
1 was the retained list
1 was a tweet telling us about the upcoming events (remember when you used to moan about the club not doing anything to A) engage with fans outside of match days and B) advertising their alternative revenue streams?)
1 is about the Staff v Fans match being played this evening
2 are relating to Ryan Higgins. Neither asks for money, but makes readers aware that donating is an available option
2 are tweets about Damon Lathrope's benefit match. Neither asks for money, both make fans aware that donating on the gate is an option
2 are RTs from attendees regarding the Damon Lathrope match. Neither asks for money.

So, of the 22 tweets, a total of 6 relate to fundraising for men who have had their careers taken away by sheer bad luck and none of those actually asks for money.

Yorkieandy wrote: Apparently the club sold raffle tickets to give away a brand new Dacia Sandero car.

**** me, it was a **** quid you **** mongrel. The old bastards on here bang on and on and on about 'entitled' young people. Does it get any more 'entitled' than being upset at the idea of having to pay a nominal sum to enter a raffle? Dacia are donating a car as a prize and you want the tickets to be free too? Phone call for you, it's the real world, it wants to know if you'll be joining the rest of us in it any time soon.

Yorkieandy wrote: How about giving each fan that came through the turnstile a FREE raffle ticket and the chance to be rewarded for enduring 5 seasons of absolute arrogant club ownership and dogshite football?

So you could be bought off by a free raffle ticket? You're almost as easily pleased as Merse's mum.

Yorkieandy wrote: Of course not as that would mean thinking about the fans which Osborne doesn't do

No argument from me. Only sensible thing you've said.

Yorkieandy wrote: Then there is the Fans v Staff match at Plainmoor. Wonder if there will be any staff left to play against if they keep leaving after being treated like shit. Well, at least they'd know how the fans felt. So this match is a great idea. Long suffering fans get to line up on the hallowed turf and enjoy a rare experience and reward for their support from kind altruistic owner Clarke Osborne yes? No? No, of course not. It'll cost you 50 quid.

What's your obsession with getting everything for free? If you want to play football for free, nick a ball from Tesco and go to a local park. TUFC isn't a charity (which is a good thing, since you don't seem to like charitable activities very much), if you want the chance to participate in a special event, it'll cost you some money. Just like absolutely anything else.

Yorkieandy wrote: The club have set up a GoFundMe page for retired player Ryan Higgins who tragically had to retire from the game with a serious heart condition. Naturally it goes without saying that sympathies are with Ryan and everyone wishes him well for the future and thanks him for the brief time he was at the club.

But that's all it was, brief. According to Wikipedia he made just 16 appearances for Torquay and yet the club put more effort into making life a little easier for him than they do fans that have spent endless amounts of time, money and inconvenience helping to keep the club afloat and helping to pay the players wages these past 5 or so years.

Over the last 5 years, various people have frittered away in excess of £5m. An average staff of 30 have worked an average of 40 hours/week for 45 weeks of the year (a total of 270,000 man-hours). The matchday staff have driven getting on for 250,000 miles, they have spent an average of three weeks each year away from their families/homes. Some, like Youngy, have been horribly injured and still come back to give their best. Others, like Damon, have given their long term health, although he was playing for someone else at the time, it could just as easily have happened while he was here. All this (and about 1000x more) was done purely so there would be a matchday for us to attend.

But yeah, you're right, the fact that someone spent 5 minutes creating a platform for people to voluntarily donate money to a guy with only a vague connection to the club really is beyond the pale. Heads should roll.

Yorkieandy wrote: Again, i cannot emphasize enough how much of a tough time Higgins must have been going through and no doubt people will say i'm being heartless and insensitive when i'm not.

I'm not racist, but...

Yorkieandy wrote: I'm pointing out a fact that Higgins was PAID whilst he was at the club

*Catherine Tate old nan voice* What a ****' liberty! He was paid to play football, not to have a **** life-limiting genetic condition which will almost certainly kill him before his time.

Yorkieandy wrote: whilst the fans HELPED TO PAY part of his wages

If you don't want to contribute to players' wages, don't go. I don't want to support bestiality, so I don't subscribe to labradorstakingituptheshitter.net. This isn't rocket science.

Yorkieandy wrote: yet according to the club Higgins is more deserving of financial help that fans who may be on benefits or minimum wage and who may have to pay travel expenses on top to get to games and support the club.

No one HAS to pay to get to games. No one HAS to pay to get in. If people choose so to do while being in financial dire straits, that's their own **** problem. The club provides a service and names a price. If it's a price you'll pay for a service you want, then pay it. If not, don't. The club don't send heavies into the town to force people to attend.

The tax and NI paid by both the club and Higgins go towards the benefits paid to those "seeking work" and on low incomes. So, just as you pay Higgins' salary, he pays their benefits money. Thing is, Higgins doesn't do so voluntarily. If he doesn't pay his fair share, the Government take it from him anyway, then send him to prison.

Yorkieandy wrote: In addition there are signed Everton shirts and allsorts to help raise money for him. It would be good to know if TUFC have chucked in a load of shirts etc to raffle too.

Why would they? He only made a handful of appearances for us. We have set up a charitable donations page (an effort to which you object) and are publicising the auction of items much more likely to make money than some bloody shirt from a side knocking about in the pub leagues.

Yorkieandy wrote: the fact that fans are once again being asked to fork out

No they're not. The club have made it known that the facility to donate exists. Not once has money been either asked for or demanded. It's not news that charity exists. You're all for giving out stuff for free when it would benefit you (why don't the club give us free raffle tickets), but woe betide them if they ask for of it back to benefit someone who isn't you.

Yorkieandy wrote: recognition and rewards themselves for also going through such tough times then i find it a bit off.

So you want the club to somehow offer you a reward and some recognition for, what, attending matches? What colour is the sky on your planet?
I bought another Jaguar a while ago. I can't believe they haven't even been in touch to offer me a holiday or a new pair of sunglasses or something. Don't they know how lucky they are to have me as a customer?

Yorkieandy wrote: i don't begrudge Higgins anything at all

You've **** begrudged his former employers doing so much as spending 5 minutes setting up a charity giving page.

Yorkieandy wrote: but it just seems to me another thing that fans get asked to help with when they get **** all help themselves from this selfish, greedy owner.

It's not Higgins' fault that the club is owned by Osbourn and the two things aren't connected. He isn't less sick because we're owned by a bellend. No one is asking for us to help Higgins.

Yorkieandy wrote: Another similar story is that of Damon Lathrope. I am aware that the fundraising match was set up by a fan and therefore facilitated by the club but once again it's hands in pockets time for a player who broke his leg and had to retire whilst playing for ANOTHER CLUB!!

Yeah, forget the 152 official and x other friendly matches that he played for us over two stints totalling 6 seasons. Forget the fact that he's a perfectly decent bloke with a family to support and a new career to find. He wasn't playing for us at the time, so of course he should be forgotten the minute he signs for someone else.

As with Higgins, we're not being forced to donate. We're not being forced to attend the benefit match. We're not being forced to do anything. If you want to go or donate or participate or advertise the opportunity to others, then do so, but you don't HAVE to.

Yorkieandy wrote: I don't doubt the service Lathrope has given to Torquay but again, he was paid for it and was hardly a club legend.

**** him, then. I'm just sad the prick didn't have the good sense to die in the ambulance on the way to hospital.

Yorkieandy wrote: He'd left and was a Woking player yet fans, good souls that they are set something up for him and go along and dip their hands in their pockets once more.

And again, no one has a gun to your head. If you don't want to donate, don't.

Yorkieandy wrote: I know the above sounds insensitive but it is absolutely not meant to be in any way, shape or form.

Protip: If something sounds like it makes you sound like a **** knobend and you don't want to sound like a knobend, don't say it. We're back to, 'I'm not racist, but...'

Yorkieandy wrote: I'm simply trying to point out with brutal examples that it's always the fans who get shit on by people who run the club

You really are desperate to be a victim here, aren't you? Two blokes have had their careers ended through no fault of their own. One of them learned of his condition when his sister was rushed to hospital and the other was very nearly crippled simply by turning up for work. But yeah, you're right, you had to read a couple of tweets that didn't ask you for money. All the bad shit really does happen to you.

The club aren't shitting on anybody. They're ending out innocuous tweets.

Yorkieandy wrote: and yet it's the fans expected to fork out and help out on top.

No one is expected to 'fork out'. If you want to, do so. If you don't, don;t. Couldn't be simpler.

When are the fans going to get recognized, afforded as much consideration as a player with only 16 games under his belt has and hen are the fans going start being treated with dignity for their long standing support and loyalty.

Yorkieandy wrote: It's a good job you run a football club because if this was any other business you'd have no customers left.

Basically every brand in the country will have ties with charities. Every year, we have Children in Need. In 2017, the BBC asked viewers for money. They raised in excess of £50m on the night. Your suggestion that requests for charitable donations drives people away is farcical.

Yorkieandy wrote: THINK ABOUT WHAT OTHERS SACRIFICE FOR A CHANGE

You're on here whinging about not getting a free raffle ticket while also being upset at having the chance to donate a few pence to a couple of blokes who have had their careers ended by sheer bad luck. Physician, heal thyself.

Yorkieandy wrote: Just needed to point that out again as there are people out there who are incapable of interpreting my posts correctly in the spirit and way they were intended and instead choose to misunderstand.

You wrote the words. There is only one way to interpret what you have written. I have not misrepresented anything you have said. What you typed is what you typed. If it's not what you meant, you should have typed different words. You really can't blame the waiter if you want a burger, but you ask for a hotdog and he brings you a hotdog.


And before you start, I don't give a **** about "it's all an opinion". It's not an opinion. Opinions are based in fact. To suggest that the club being minimally charitable towards a couple of ex-employees is somehow worthy of scorn is not capable of being an opinion based on a reasonable interpretation of the facts. Any such suggestion is a nonsense.

Matt.

Ouch !

Matt88 wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 21:03 Hold onto yourself, Squadron Leader, because you're not going to like this. The saving grace is it won't be here long, because the admin will sling it in the bin before because of all the swears...

<snip>

Matt.

The most rationale post on a thread that should never have seen the light of day.

Matt88 wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 21:03 Matt

It's Matt - Ferrarilover. He's back !!!! Hooray !! We've disagreed more than once, but how I looked forward to his outrageous posts. Hope life has been treating you well, Matt. Cheers!

Matt88 wrote: ↑02 May 2018, 21:03 Hold onto yourself, Squadron Leader, because you're not going to like this. The saving grace is it won't be here ............

Matt.

Matt is it ?
More than likely aka Geoffrey Harrop

I normally lose the will to read posts that go past 3 paragraphs, but that post above had me hooked from the start, best entertainment I've had all week.

Not meant as personal criticism against anyone, but I'm surprised by some of the points made on a number of posts. As pointed out by Matt, I'm no doctor, but Higgins could be facing a situation when the next day might be his last, don't know how serious his condition is, but what job can he go on to do.

I believe Lathrope currently requires the use of a wheelchair, although temporary doubt he's going to find a new career anytime soon.

We're not just talking serious physical injuries, we may well be talking mental scars here. I donated £5 for each player, not a lot of money, but it was what I could afford and was happy to do so, wish them both well.