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BigDave wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 22:11 Presumably you split hairs as a profession. The point that you seem to miss is that Osbourne acquired the club - a defaulted loan is even worse than a purchase as the Club was obviously bust at the time. He could have gone into administration at any time so every game that Torquay have played since that date is surely a bonus - win, lose or draw - but maybe you don't see it like that. I suppose that you haven't been to any matches or seen any games since Osbourne made a loan that he knew would not be repaid because to do so would prevent you from admitting that the Club had not yet folded. Culmstock may sometimes be deluded in his postings but not on this occasion. TUFC have had a roller coaster ride for the last five years and Osbourne has played a part in that - accept it as such.

What you seem to forget is that Osborne saw an opportunity to to what he had done before several times.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 23:41 What you seem to forget is that Osborne saw an opportunity to to what he had done before several times.

That is irrelevant and a facile comment. Whatever Osbourne's motive was for loaning money and taking ownership rather than forcing administration, it does not negate the fact that the Football Club has continued to operate for a further five years or more. Hitler wasn't a very nice man who invaded countries, caused a World War and was responsible for millions of deaths but that doesn't obliterate the fact that there were some technological and economic developments in Germany whilst he was in power. Osbourne isn't in the same league as Adolf but whilst it is obvious that his ultimate ambition was not beneficial for TUFC in the long term, it should not be denied that there was a long delay of several years between acquisition and entering administration which was of short-term benefit to the Club. I have not forgotten the promotion and the play-offs (or, for that matter, the relegations) that occurred during Osbourne's tenure but none of those were predicated on his property development motives and none of those would have occurred if administration had happened in 2017 rather than now as the Club would not have survived in its present form.

BigDave wrote: ↑07 Apr 2024, 22:11 Presumably you split hairs as a profession. The point that you seem to miss is that Osbourne acquired the club - a defaulted loan is even worse than a purchase as the Club was obviously bust at the time. He could have gone into administration at any time so every game that Torquay have played since that date is surely a bonus - win, lose or draw - but maybe you don't see it like that. I suppose that you haven't been to any matches or seen any games since Osbourne made a loan that he knew would not be repaid because to do so would prevent you from admitting that the Club had not yet folded. Culmstock may sometimes be deluded in his postings but not on this occasion. TUFC have had a roller coaster ride for the last five years and Osbourne has played a part in that - accept it as such.

Laughable response

Huge difference in purchase and loan collateral

It's the same patter rolled out on other platforms like the Yellow Army Facebook group by the likes of that Horler bloke, we can all spot an Osbourne & Edwards supporter

I've been a season ticket holder for 15+ years so been to plenty enough games in recent times as wrong on that point as you are with your others

BigDave wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 00:50 That is irrelevant and a facile comment. Whatever Osbourne's motive was for loaning money and taking ownership rather than forcing administration, it does not negate the fact that the Football Club has continued to operate for a further five years or more. Hitler wasn't a very nice man who invaded countries, caused a World War and was responsible for millions of deaths but that doesn't obliterate the fact that there were some technological and economic developments in Germany whilst he was in power. Osbourne isn't in the same league as Adolf but whilst it is obvious that his ultimate ambition was not beneficial for TUFC in the long term, it should not be denied that there was a long delay of several years between acquisition and entering administration which was of short-term benefit to the Club. I have not forgotten the promotion and the play-offs (or, for that matter, the relegations) that occurred during Osbourne's tenure but none of those were predicated on his property development motives and none of those would have occurred if administration had happened in 2017 rather than now as the Club would not have survived in its present form.

People love to contrast against Hitler, truly bizarre and has no relevance to the current situation

BigDave scraping the barrel now

i'd just like to know what is hapening ! And be saved from endless reruns of the same old arguments.

BigDave wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 00:50 That is irrelevant and a facile comment. Whatever Osbourne's motive was for loaning money and taking ownership rather than forcing administration, it does not negate the fact that the Football Club has continued to operate for a further five years or more. Hitler wasn't a very nice man who invaded countries, caused a World War and was responsible for millions of deaths but that doesn't obliterate the fact that there were some technological and economic developments in Germany whilst he was in power. Osbourne isn't in the same league as Adolf but whilst it is obvious that his ultimate ambition was not beneficial for TUFC in the long term, it should not be denied that there was a long delay of several years between acquisition and entering administration which was of short-term benefit to the Club. I have not forgotten the promotion and the play-offs (or, for that matter, the relegations) that occurred during Osbourne's tenure but none of those were predicated on his property development motives and none of those would have occurred if administration had happened in 2017 rather than now as the Club would not have survived in its present form.

I've heard it all now - Hitler and Osborne...
It was blatantly obvious what he was up to - have you forgotten his "new stadium?" A mock up of one already used!
If he was so keen for us to move to a new stadium, why didn't he just build one first?
Oh, hang on, he's never done that before, so why start now?
Have you not considered that after 5 yrs and his "5 year plan" when he finally realised that his £5m gamble wasn't going to work, that's when he decided to put the club into administration?

What's the point in going over the past, Osbourne has gone and yet we're still arguing about him. Whatever the reasons, and there are plenty, we've finally reached the point where we stand on the abyss.

This has been on the cards for years, probably decades, the Bristows bankrolled us, Osbourne has (in his own way). We've been spending more than we receive for decades. We've not made any money from player sales in years, we've been fortunate that we have a incredibly loyal fan base around the 1800 mark.

We're all entitled to opinions, but until we know who will own us, their plans and the division we'll be in, it's all speculation. If you can't influence what's actually happening, may as well just wait until something does.

No point in arguing about what's gone on before.

By the way, paragraphs people.

Taelee73 wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 09:30 What's the point in going over the past, Osbourne has gone and yet we're still arguing about him. Whatever the reasons, and there are plenty, we've finally reached the point where we stand on the abyss.

This has been on the cards for years, probably decades, the Bristows bankrolled us, Osbourne has (in his own way). We've been spending more than we receive for decades. We've not made any money from player sales in years, we've been fortunate that we have a incredibly loyal fan base around the 1800 mark.

We're all entitled to opinions, but until we know who will own us, their plans and the division we'll be in, it's all speculation. If you can't influence what's actually happening, may as well just wait until something does.

No point in arguing about what's gone on before.

By the way, paragraphs people.

Jeez, it's the grammar police......
By the way, it's "Osborne."

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 10:54 Jeez, it's the grammar police......
By the way, it's "Osborne."

I'm pretty sure it's ''Osborne".

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 09:26 I've heard it all now - Hitler and Osborne...
It was blatantly obvious what he was up to - have you forgotten his "new stadium?" A mock up of one already used!
If he was so keen for us to move to a new stadium, why didn't he just build one first?
Oh, hang on, he's never done that before, so why start now?
Have you not considered that after 5 yrs and his "5 year plan" when he finally realised that his £5m gamble wasn't going to work, that's when he decided to put the club into administration?

Yes it was blatantly obvious but without his £5m gamble and 5 year plan it was even more blatantly obvious that TUFC would go into administration 5 years earlier: if you thought about it, even you and UnitedinDevon should be able to realise that. I am no apologist for Osborne but what you don't seem to be able to understand is that he was not responsible for the fact that he had an opportunity: the responsibility for that lies with the previous maladministration.
Why be concerned with motive when the reprieve is the important thing? Why don't you blame the Council for failing to keep him on the hook regarding his gamble for another few years? Who was at fault for Waters, Wright and Buse missing penalties in the play-off final that could have taken TUFC back to the EFL? Season ticket holders with 15+ years experience and an ego as big as their blinkers will doubtless blame Uncle Clark for that as well.
Many TUFC fans have delusions of grandeur which cloud their judgement but in nearly a century of playing in English national leagues the only title that Torquay United have won is the National League South in 2019 when Osborne was the chairman. I have followed TUFC for 40 years, during which time they have provided a great deal of excitement and entertainment, but the 'Yellow Army' can be very fickle if results are not what they desire and I can remember the Popside showing their disapproval of Mike Bateson. However, since he relinquished control the Club has been poorly run and in decline to the point that it may well soon cease to exist.

BigDave wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 13:10 Yes it was blatantly obvious but without his £5m gamble and 5 year plan it was even more blatantly obvious that TUFC would go into administration 5 years earlier: if you thought about it, even you and UnitedinDevon should be able to realise that. I am no apologist for Osborne but what you don't seem to be able to understand is that he was not responsible for the fact that he had an opportunity: the responsibility for that lies with the previous maladministration.
Why be concerned with motive when the reprieve is the important thing? Why don't you blame the Council for failing to keep him on the hook regarding his gamble for another few years? Who was at fault for Waters, Wright and Buse missing penalties in the play-off final that could have taken TUFC back to the EFL? Season ticket holders with 15+ years experience and an ego as big as their blinkers will doubtless blame Uncle Clark for that as well.
Many TUFC fans have delusions of grandeur which cloud their judgement but in nearly a century of playing in English national leagues the only title that Torquay United have won is the National League South in 2019 when Osborne was the chairman. I have followed TUFC for 40 years, during which time they have provided a great deal of excitement and entertainment, but the 'Yellow Army' can be very fickle if results are not what they desire and I can remember the Popside showing their disapproval of Mike Bateson. However, since he relinquished control the Club has been poorly run and in decline to the point that it may well soon cease to exist.

Do you that as a fact??
Did you know that there were other potential new owners looking to buy the club instead of Osborne? But they were pushed aside??
It was the players "fault." They missed them.
Ever since that day Osborne took another route, for us to be where we are now.
Blame the council??
Well, that would have worked out well wouldn't it?
He'd have got the freehold and we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one - just like for all the other sporting teams he's been involved with.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 13:44 Do you that as a fact??
Did you know that there were other potential new owners looking to buy the club instead of Osborne? But they were pushed aside??
It was the players "fault." They missed them.
Ever since that day Osborne took another route, for us to be where we are now.
Blame the council??
Well, that would have worked out well wouldn't it?
He'd have got the freehold and we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one - just like for all the other sporting teams he's been involved with.

This is exactly the information I was trying to get out of Southampton gull but short of torture I think he had enough of me for one weekend. There is no sarcasm intended but from your posts you are far more knowlegeable than most of the fan base on the inner workings of out club. Who exactly were these other bidders, names would help and, who were these people within the club who thwarted those attempts, again names would help all of us to understand the situation far better than we do now., and rest assured anything you say is not libel if the statements you make are truthfull and factual.

You've tried to get what out of me? I've laid all the information out on here many times so if you're unaware that isn't my fault. I actually agree with a lot of what BigDave says except that he credits Osbo(u)rne whereas I don't.

I was given information at the time, in confidence, and by someone who should know....... I have always held that confidence but posted what I could at every opportunity. If he or she wants to divulge any more to satisfy your blinkered curiosity then that's up to them.

Talee, the point of this forum is to discuss matters, if you don't like what is being said then scroll on by instead of adding a pointless view, especially considering your continued arguments with Yeofan.

BigDave wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 00:50 That is irrelevant and a facile comment. Whatever Osbourne's motive was for loaning money and taking ownership rather than forcing administration, it does not negate the fact that the Football Club has continued to operate for a further five years or more. Hitler wasn't a very nice man who invaded countries, caused a World War and was responsible for millions of deaths but that doesn't obliterate the fact that there were some technological and economic developments in Germany whilst he was in power. Osbourne isn't in the same league as Adolf but whilst it is obvious that his ultimate ambition was not beneficial for TUFC in the long term, it should not be denied that there was a long delay of several years between acquisition and entering administration which was of short-term benefit to the Club. I have not forgotten the promotion and the play-offs (or, for that matter, the relegations) that occurred during Osbourne's tenure but none of those were predicated on his property development motives and none of those would have occurred if administration had happened in 2017 rather than now as the Club would not have survived in its present form.

I dunno - if your argument boils down to "but Hitler actually got a lot right!", it feels like you're onto a loser.

SuperNickyWroe wrote: ↑08 Apr 2024, 13:44 Do you that as a fact??
Did you know that there were other potential new owners looking to buy the club instead of Osborne? But they were pushed aside??
It was the players "fault." They missed them.
Ever since that day Osborne took another route, for us to be where we are now.
Blame the council??
Well, that would have worked out well wouldn't it?
He'd have got the freehold and we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one - just like for all the other sporting teams he's been involved with.

Try reading the post before you reply and then try to understand it. (It would also help if your own posts made sense without having to guess the missing words.) I would not expect you to recognise irony or sardonicism particularly as your use thereof is palpably inadvertent: "we wouldn't have a stadium, because he'd have never built one" - presumably so much more satisfying to have a stadium without a team to play in it.

Obviously the players were to blame for missing penalties and obviously the council is blameless but all the knowing comments now about rejected alternatives to Osborne do have a whiff of hindsight about them. At the time there was apprehension about his track record (pun intended) but even Southampton Gull was posting in March 2016 " I spent last week looking into his links with Swindon Robins speedway and other involvements and he does have success with finding places to develop. He was part of a group that bought Pontins out but couldn't find out much more than Merse has revealed. Is it a bad move for the club? I'm not sure either way but what I do know is that the current Board need to bring in some kind of investment or the club will go under. TUST are still not in a position to do anything so what choice do we have?" and in April 2016 "I want to know as much as anyone else what the incoming people envisage for the club BUT I trust the current Board to do what is in the best interests of our club. We all have an emotional interest which is obviously what sets it apart from Tesco, I figured most would take that as read, obviously not. The point remains the same though, it is a business for those coming in and it has had to be run as a business by those who took over last summer. It baffles me why people don't grasp that and continue still to demand some answers."

At the time of the takeover by Osborne, TUFC were in a financial mess and in a relegation battle (albeit n a higher division): plus ca change.