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Southampton Gull wrote: ↑06 Mar 2018, 22:07Nicholson used someone he trusts to do the future opponent analysis, another common misconception.

And that clearly isn't good enough Dave; ask any manager, there is nothing like first-hand evidence, not just on forthcoming opponents but on prospective signings. The geography dictates many long hours on the road, but it simply has to be done if the best decisions possible are to be made.

You can't have a manager opting not to commit to that and if he had he wouldn't have been having the time and enrgy to do all the other stuff that get's him so venerated by the drooing masses.

He was a chancer, and look at the legacy he left!

I didn't say that was all he did. To be honest I'm getting fed up pointing out the obvious. You championed Owers from the beginning and he turned out to be a far bigger dud than Nicholson ever did. I don't need your insight into the merits of the management, I have a much clearer view than someone who just wants to throw in a dig every few days.

We'll never know what he would have got out of his squad, he was given 4 games. Enough said.

Southampton Gull wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 14:38 I didn't say that was all he did. To be honest I'm getting fed up pointing out the obvious. You championed Owers from the beginning and he turned out to be a far bigger dud than Nicholson ever did. I don't need your insight into the merits of the management, I have a much clearer view than someone who just wants to throw in a dig every few days.

We'll never know what he would have got out of his squad, he was given 4 games. Enough said.

Absolutely spot on Dave

Kevin Nicholson motivated players. There are plenty of examples of players who have moved on and not played to the level that they played for him. A few examples are Tyrone Marsh, Dan Lavercombe, iffy Allen, Nathan Blissett and Aman Verma.
Who knows what he would have done with his summer signings and how he intended to use them? Just because a dud manager and a dud coach can't inspire them doesn't mean that they wouldn't have come good under a different regime ( not necessarily KN). The two aforementioned duds can't even motivate the players that they have signed themselves for heavens sake!

I am really angry that Owers and Kuhl are still here masquerading as Head coach and coach or whatever their titles are. They have destroyed our Club and should do the decent thing and clear off back to whatever their day jobs were before they came here.

They have all been duds since the ling sacking , feels that way. Sunderland fans must feel the same. Simply feels rotten of it.

Don't want to join the debate with nicho and owers ... makes you wonder if nicho was here where would we be ....could be worse ..could be better.
Yes engaged with fans more but that doesn't get any points on the table

westyorkshiregull wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 15:20 Don't want to join the debate with nicho and owers ... makes you wonder if nicho was here where would we be ....could be worse ..could be better.

To what extent could we be worse? debate!

Not to mention that Nico managed through the stressful and uncertain transitional periods under various regimes during his time as manager and also had the hassle of having not much or no money for hotel stays and a reliable team coach etc. Not only was he managing a team to NL survival but he also had to wander around the club everyday with a box of elastoplast just to keep things together with no guidance or support from above.

Owers has come into to a settled club, settled in terms of backroom staff and one owner and been allowed to get on with things unhindered. He has been afforded the opportunity to bring in loads of his own players (loanees and otherwise), afforded most of the entire season to get things finally moving forward and up the table and on top of that he's had no other distractions and yet STILL the club are to be relegated.

The debate is not about whether Nico or Owers is best, the debate is about hard facts. Nico kept the club up twice and Owers gets one extremely decent crack at it and will fail.

I'm not a fan of either of the managers tbh although as a player Nico was my favourite behind Billy Bodin but if the job was just to keep the club above the trapdoor this season then we've got rid of a man who has seen it, done it and would have done it again in favour of a man who hasn't seen it, hasn't done it and won't do it.

Jack wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 15:17 Absolutely spot on Dave

Kevin Nicholson motivated players. There are plenty of examples of players who have moved on and not played to the level that they played for him. A few examples are Tyrone Marsh, Dan Lavercombe, iffy Allen, Nathan Blissett and Aman Verma.
Who knows what he would have done with his summer signings and how he intended to use them? Just because a dud manager and a dud coach can't inspire them doesn't mean that they wouldn't have come good under a different regime ( not necessarily KN). The two aforementioned duds can't even motivate the players that they have signed themselves for heavens sake!

I am really angry that Owers and Kuhl are still here masquerading as Head coach and coach or whatever their titles are. They have destroyed our Club and should do the decent thing and clear off back to whatever their day jobs were before they came here.

Our club was destroyed way before Owers and Kuhl were appointed.

MellowYellow wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 16:24 To what extent could we be worse? debate!

Could be bottom of table already relegated

westyorkshiregull wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 17:45 Could be bottom of table already relegated

Being 2nd from bottom and getting relegated makes me feel so much more positive

Looks that way , I've little hope looks like some have no hope. We been 6 points and 6 games and survived before

Yorkieandy :
Please tell me you were kidding ?
Billy feckin Bodin !

Teigngull wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 21:59 Yorkieandy :
Please tell me you were kidding ?
Billy feckin Bodin !

Yorkieandy wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 16:53
the debate is about hard facts. Nico kept the club up twice and Owers gets one extremely decent crack at it and will fail.

You excluded an important fact. Nicho sole task (as eluded to by the CE at the time) was to keep TU in the National League. He completed his task (twice) and was sacked. So to this end, what was Owers tasked to complete this season - better or worse than Nicho? Discuss.

westyorkshiregull wrote: ↑07 Mar 2018, 15:20 They have all been duds since the ling sacking , feels that way. Sunderland fans must feel the same. Simply feels rotten of it.

This.

Hargreaves, Knill, Cox, Nicholson and now Owers have presided over some of the worst football I have had the misfortune to watch in all my days of supporting Torquay. In reality they have all been crap.

The fast flowing beautiful football played by Leroy, and the direct free-scoring Buckle side seem like an eternity ago.

DevonYellow wrote: ↑08 Mar 2018, 14:51 This.

Hargreaves, Knill, Cox, Nicholson and now Owers have presided over some of the worst football I have had the misfortune to watch in all my days of supporting Torquay. In reality they have all been crap.

The fast flowing beautiful football played by Leroy, and the direct free-scoring Buckle side seem like an eternity ago.

Yep an eternity ago , how spoilt were we back then ? 2 manager's who admittedly, were backed with ample finance, knew the strengths & weaknesses of their opponents but more's the point knew exactly how to get the very best out of their own squads to the n'th degree.
I fear we'll never see the likes of those teams again, the grace of Russell & Fowler the pace of Gritton & Graham the skill of Kuffour the ruggedness of Hockley the spring in the step of Hill the nous of Woods & Taylor, make no bones about it we were good very very good indeed, God we were on a par with Hull & Huddersfield if not better than them , look at them now compared to us, it's sickening just sickening.
And I haven't even mentioned Buckles squad.