wodger of awabia wrote: Lets look at what he has done at TUFC which is what he must be judged on
Yes, let's
wodger of awabia wrote: He stated when he took over that only a little fine tuning was required to turn things around.
Got a link?
wodger of awabia wrote: He struggled to recruit loan players
Can you prove this? Were you party to the negotiations which took place?
wodger of awabia wrote: the two (quite good)players he loaned were recalled at a vital time in the season.
That might have something to do with the fact that they were a couple of quality players that Knill, somehow, managed to convince to come to Torquay. The fact that they were recalled is hardly Knill's fault.
wodger of awabia wrote: On the other hand Taylor's loan signing (Benyon) was signed until the end of the season
Yup, a bloke who hadn't played for anyone for more than about 5 minutes in the 3 years since he left us wasn't immediately recalled from a loan spell. I tell you, that Taylor, he's a genius...
wodger of awabia wrote: good plan Taylor
Again, the fact that Benyon wasn't recalled is hardly any sort of indictment of Knill, it's just that Southend rated him so little that they really didn't want him back. We know this because he didn't really play for them at all during his time there. While we're on the subject of the DemiGod that is Taylor, do we all need reminding of the decision he made at Aldershot, when, at 1-0 down with a few minutes to go, he bought on a crippled Morris instead of new loan striker E. Benyon. Yeah, that'll work Wodger, try to push the Taylor angle...
wodger of awabia wrote: Knill did not save TUFC, although he may have perhaps instilled a bit of confidence in the players, what ultimately saved TUFC from the Conference was Taylor's player Benyon who managed to get a Morecambe defender sent off, & the comedy goal keeping error that put us one up, Oh & don't let us forget Yeoman's "goal of a lifetime" which gave us the 2-0 score.
This, frankly, is tripe of the highest order and is so bafflingly stupid that it is hard to argue against with any cogency. If we're taking three points earned under Knill, why are we choosing the three against Morecambe where Benyon happened to play (as if that in itself is indicative of anything meaningful) when we could just as easily pick the three points we earned against Chesterfield, when Knill loan singing Ladabie scored the goal which turned one point into three? See how easy this cherry-picking nonsense is, you can use it to "prove" anything.
Please don't try to suggest the Benyon is some sort of tactical master and lured the young, inexperienced defender to his doom. The kid got himself sent off by playing like a headless chicken and diving in when he should have stayed on his feet. To suggest that he would have behaved differently if Howe, Ladabie or Mr Bean had been on the ball is absurd. What you've pointed to here is a goalkeeping error and a really good goal scored by Yeoman, a kid who almost certainly wouldn't have been playing had Ling been manager. Credit here must go to Knill for selecting Yeoman in the first place. Quite how a goalkeeping howler is supposed to count against Knill, I'm really not sure. By this stage, I guess you were struggling for actual arguments, so started typing words in the hope that people would simply take what you said as gospel without thinking.
wodger of awabia wrote: Knill was signed on a permanent contract at the end of last season
Ah yes, a permanent contract, the classic sign of a crap manager...
wodger of awabia wrote: but was not good enough to train up his existing staff, so had to get his little friend Chris Brass in to help him.
This is the stupidest thing ever posted on the Internet. Ever. If I need to explain why, then you need to see a nurse, because I fear you are clinically brain dead. Do you know who else dispensed with the services of the coaching staff when he took over at his new club this summer? David Moyes, the man hand picked by Sir Alex Ferguson (among the top three managers in the history of the game) to take over at the most important and powerful club in English football. To hold against Knill the fact that he chose to work with Brassy, a man he knows, respects, likes and trust, instead of Taylor, a man so dumb he once failed a blood test, shows that you really, really don't have a real argument to present and you are just spouting crap.
wodger of awabia wrote: A lot of spin was put on his failure to sign players before this new season started
No, a load of old shit was hurled about by people who don't have the first clue about the inner workings of a professional football club, but go on...
wodger of awabia wrote: I believe that he has not got any decent contacts in the game, & is not perceived to be a manager to send your young players to for them to gain experience, ( Ball being the exception that proves the rule).
Given the content of this post so far, it wouldn't surprise me to read that you also believe the moon to be made of cheese. Again, I ask you to prove this theory, or at least evidence it. Bearing in mind I probably know an awful lot more about the summer dealings than you do, choose your evidence carefully. (Ha, 'ark at me, as if I expect any evidence to be forthcoming. Still, one can dream). At Bury, he signed Nicky Ajose from Manchester United. Hardly the sort of club to deal with people they don't trust, I suspect.
wodger of awabia wrote: His pre season performance is nothing short of dreadful!
What are you on about? The team's pre-season record read P.5 W.4 D.1 L.0 F.9 A.1.
wodger of awabia wrote: He let Morris an under 21 international player go to Northampton who immediately made him captain
And at almost exactly the same time, they went from Playoff finalists to relegation favourites with a record of P.7 W.1 D.1 L.5 F.6 A.10.
Boy oh boy, what a mistake it was letting our superstar midfield general go there... Oh, no, wait, that isn't right. Morris is the bloke who played 15 minutes for us in two seasons, didn't score, didn't make an assist, and generally didn't do much... What Knill did was swap him for the captain of last year's Playoff finalists. A move which, on paper, was deal of the day. Imagine Wenger swapping Frimpong for Rooney and you've got a similar comparison. Just because Rooney goes on to be a flop, that doesn't mean it was a bad deal
ab initio
wodger of awabia wrote: surely he should have kept him, improved him, & got a sell on fee for the club.
Oh good, we're on to Football Manager mode. Surely we should have kept Carayol or Mohammed and got fees for them. Equally, surely we should have kept Mo Camara and Eyesdown Christie. That's the choice managers make. Knill didn't rate Morris, Morris wanted to leave, Morris left. We were never going to get a fee for him because, as he is proving with his performances for NTFC, he is never going to be a player in sufficient demand to command a fee.
wodger of awabia wrote: Knills next master stroke is to release Joe Oastler, who joins Aldershot in the Conference
Ah yes, that footballing powerhouse Aldershot Town. Remind me, are they the ones that play at San Siro, in the blue and black stripes and attract some of the world's top professionals? Oh, no, my mistake, they are a non-league side in England who, at the time, were on -10 points, owed £1,000,000 and had 3 players to start the season. Oastler, a player so immensely talented that the best offer he got was Aldershot Town. Meanwhile, we recruited in his place the starting right back from a team in the division above us.
You really aren't very good at this, are you.
wodger of awabia wrote: & is almost straight away selected for the England "C" team
The England C team, another hotbed of footballing excellence. There, he gets to play alongside such luminaries as Preston Edwards (what do you mean you've never heard of him?) and the ever impressive Kieron Forbes...
wodger of awabia wrote: Knill next failed to hold on to Saah
Who left at the end of his contract, despite an offer from us. He went to Dagenham (who are as likely as not to go down) and we got Pearce in to replace him from League 1 Notts County. Do you see a pattern emerging here? We're letting players go to clubs not as good as us and we're recruiting, mainly, from clubs demonstratively better than us.
wodger of awabia wrote: Howe
Again, end of his contract, was leaving long before Knill had even heard of Torquay United and was offered a deal by the previous
drunk manager which he rejected. The Board would not be held to ransom and he is, consequently off setting the world alight at Burton. Oh, no, sorry, that's another error on my part. He's actually scored one goal this season. I'm sure that would have been £1500/week well spent. At that average, he'll finish the season on 6 goals, 7 if he's lucky.
wodger of awabia wrote: Jarvis ( 4 goals already this season for York).
As I demonstrated in another thread (or perhaps earlier in this one), Jarvis is one of a very large number of players to have scored three or more goals so far this season. Well done to the boy, it's an achievement no doubt, but let's not go kidding ourselves that he'll end up on 28 goals by the end of the year (which is his present average).
wodger of awabia wrote: He could have signed Cooper as a midfielder & central defender but wasted the budget on other players & failed to recognize quality & experience.
I'll give you the first half of that sentiment, we could have signed Cooper. However, the rest of it is up to (or down to) the same standard of the rest of this junk. Knill recognised perfectly what quality Cooper possesses, it's just a case of unfortunate timing. We didn't have a space in the squad for a midfielder and he was too short to be Knill's first choice centre back. For me, not signing Cooper was a mistake, but then, it likely freed up the money for us to bring in Mozika, and, with him and Pearce in the team, I feel that Knill has not only got two specialists in place of one Jack-Of-All-Trades, but he's done it without spending any more money. I'd love for TUFC to have the money to have Cooper in the squad, on the bench every game to bring on at a moment's notice to cover any one of half a dozen positions (a bit like a really good Chris McPhee). Sadly, the apathetic Torbay public would rather spend their money on abortions and tattoos, so we can't afford the luxury of paying that type of player a fairly hefty wage. Sad but true and ultimately not Knill's fault.
wodger of awabia wrote: Knill then signs Harding in a tit for tat for them getting Morris.....not enough imagination to look elsewhere!......
Sorry, I didn't realise it was story time. What the **** is this supposed to mean? Since when has "imagination" been anything to do with recruiting players. This is the dumbest thing you've said since the last thing you said.
wodger of awabia wrote: There are quite a few other points that could be made about his management of the club, I have just listed the ones that really pi## me off.
As opposed to listing any valid criticism at all. Well, it's an unconventional technique, let's see how it works out for you...
wodger of awabia wrote: Knill has fu#ked up what was a reasonable L2 side
So reasonable, in fact, that they managed to stave off relegation in the last week having lost more league games in a single season than any Torquay side had managed for 6 years, and that was the year we finished 92nd of 92.
wodger of awabia wrote: his team is failing badly
His team is doing what is has every right to, it's behaving like a mediocre League Two side. Have a look around the relevant forums and you'll see that the performances coming out of expensively assembled Plymouth, Northampton, Cheltenham and Bristol Rovers are far worse than ours and they have budgeted for promotion. Give up getting your panties in a bunch because we haven't secured the League title after 6 games.
wodger of awabia wrote: he hasn't a clue how to turn it around.
Indeed, he is working hard to rectify the issues which he has identified. He is working within tight budgetary constraints and other factors which are limiting his manoeuvring room. He is dealing with Championship level clubs in order to rectify the issue of lack of goals.
All in all, one of the very worst efforts I (and I'm sure others) have ever seen at justifying an evidently unjustifiable position. Knill has been here, for the purposes of fair and honest appraisal, for 7 games. He's Alan Knill and we are Torquay United. Right now, with the off field investment as it is, the global financial situation as it is and other factors considered, I would consider where we are right now (19th) about three places below an acceptable finish. Meaningful chunks of the football we have played this year have been head and shoulders in advance of anything we saw under Ling and there is surely more to come, given the potential locked within the squad this year.
Matt.