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Not an unreasonable post Hector. I thought he was barking to take the job in the first place. If you are right about him being given time to build his own team, then he has been here for 3 months without achieving anything other than abject failure and the finger should point at the people who decided to sack a manager 1 point adrift in a relegation battle with half a season to go and appoint him to be the saviour. Or did they not actually want a saviour? That has got to be a possibility. I have said before that I think CH has got all the attributes to be a good manager but thought at the time 'wrong club wrong time'.

Whatever .... it's too late now!

hector wrote:I have felt sorry for Hargreaves. He was left a shambles by Knill. He changes the team around too much and it has almost become a bit of a joke about Hargreaves' tombola approach to picking the team but he has so much dross and mediocrity that I don't think there is much he can do.

Saying that, he hasn't helped himself either and there has been a bit of a groundswell against him recently and if there was a moment when it felt like the majority of fans turned against him, then it was today when the no.27 board was held up and our only threat, Shaq, a player on loan from Spurs, was substituted for a player who not long ago was on loan at Bideford.

The booing and the chants of 'that's why we're going down, that's why we're going down...' suggest CH has some work to do to win over many of the fans. He is perhaps in even a worse predicament than Knill, as there were some, misguided perhaps, who wanted to keep Knill and they will feel somewhat justified because Hargreaves has been even worse, without it occurirng to them that a Sturrock or Allen, may have clawed us clear.

Hargreaves has certainly been tainted. From people I talk to, most feel like they do not trust him to sign the right players or have any idea of what team/formation/approach he would adopt.

It is such a gamble - a gamble to stick with him (but I sense we have to) and to let him build a team, that could do badly and have to sack yet another manager, and a gamble to get rid (which I really do not see happening). He has only been here three months and I think he probably deserves a chance to build his own team first.

thats a problem.

and another of the "issues" I have with CH's appointment is that clubs in threat of relegation have appointed a manager with league experience - and we get him.

a complete novice.

I agree with Hector, CH's final act of madness was when he took off the only player capable of unlocking the Scunthorpe defence, Coulthirst, and brought on Benyon. The fact Coulthirst was stuck on the wing was bad enough but to take him off seemed crazy.

For some reason, Chapell appears to have gone right down the pecking order. Has there been a falling out? Is he injured?

Chapell on one wing, Cameron on the other with Bodin playing just behind Coulthirst up front would be my preferred setup. This would be Bodins last chance to prove he's got it. CH would also have to play these guys for 3-4 matches to give them chance to gel. Stop swapping everybody around every week.

When CH was commentating on games he would be very critical of the performances but as somebody has already commented, it's not as easy as it looks. Perhaps Chris should have stayed as a media whore and left managing to people who can do it.

Chris Hargreaves = Wes Saunders

stefano wrote:Not an unreasonable post Hector. I thought he was barking to take the job in the first place. If you are right about him being given time to build his own team, then he has been here for 3 months without achieving anything other than abject failure and the finger should point at the people who decided to sack a manager 1 point adrift in a relegation battle with half a season to go and appoint him to be the saviour. Or did they not actually want a saviour? That has got to be a possibility. I have said before that I think CH has got all the attributes to be a good manager but thought at the time 'wrong club wrong time'.

Whatever .... it's too late now!

I don't think there is any basis at all for the board having made the wrong decision to sack Knill. One point clear at the time, but at one point we were further clear and we were in freefall under Knill. It's not like 1 point clear of the relegation zone is doing a good job.

The error the board made was appointing a rookie. Like you, I too think that Hargreaves has the right attributes to be a good manager, especially once his 'mates' are cleared from the club and also like you, I think it is a case of 'right man but wrong time' as it was a situation just asking for Sturrock to take the lead with Hargreaves being groomed to take over, in the way O'Farrell did with Rioch.

The tragedy of it, is I think plenty of fans have already now made their mind up about Hargreaves and he has a lot to do to convince people that he has a clue about what he is doing, let alone demonstrate he has the potential to be a good manager.

I just hope, that this very steep learning curve will ultimately benefit him. If he struggles with a club our size in the conference, then he isn't going to do it but I do wonder where he is going to get the players from. Buckle knew the conference when he took over. Hargreaves would benefit by bringing in someone like Dave Hockaday instead of Hodges, someone who knows that league. The basis of that team yesterday would probably cope in the Conference if they could offload the 'forwards' - and I use that term in the lightest of ways - and find someone who can score. That has to be the priority.

It's absolute fact to suggest we were in the relegation zone when Knill departed. So it's perhaps understandable to many that the board panicked and dispensed with him. At that point, it would have seemed a gamble to keep him. And with the pressure from the terraces, they did what they thought everybody wanted. But 1) we weren't in 'freefall' at the time they pulled the trigger. If anything, it looked like we'd bottomed out and had turned a bit of a corner. We won two games in December I think? Were much the better team against Exeter (and had Hawley taken an in any way acceptable penalty, might well have won that one too). He got fired after the absolute 'humiliation' of defeat at Argyle. A team it was seemingly forgotten historically we've lost to more often than not, and which was a difficult place to visit at the time. And 2) Quite apart from whether you believe the board was right or wrong to get rid of Knill - to then hand the job to a rookie, seemingly because he was very keen to have it and it would be popular with the kids on the Pop? The board didn't cover themselves in any glory and have paid the ultimate price.

Fonda wrote:It's absolute fact to suggest we were in the relegation zone when Knill departed. So it's perhaps understandable to many that the board panicked and dispensed with him. At that point, it would have seemed a gamble to keep him. And with the pressure from the terraces, they did what they thought everybody wanted. But 1) we weren't in 'freefall' at the time they pulled the trigger. If anything, it looked like we'd bottomed out and had turned a bit of a corner. We won two games in December I think? Were much the better team against Exeter (and had Hawley taken an in any way acceptable penalty, might well have won that one too). He got fired after the absolute 'humiliation' of defeat at Argyle. A team it was seemingly forgotten historically we've lost to more often than not, and which was a difficult place to visit at the time. And 2) Quite apart from whether you believe the board was right or wrong to get rid of Knill - to then hand the job to a rookie, seemingly because he was very keen to have it and it would be popular with the kids on the Pop? The board didn't cover themselves in any glory and have paid the ultimate price.

Absolutely. That is my last witness M'Lud.

I did not like the way Hargreaves got the job in the first place , I don't give a shit what sort of player he was , management ( in any shape or form not just football ) is about motivating people , making them feel good about themselves and believing .pulling together , comoradery , This bloke has got it all wrong no one knows if there playing from week to week ( I sat next to a plyers father on Saturday he doesn't know what the hell is going on ,I suspect the rest of the team feel the same . what good does it do keeping people behind in a locked dressing room (southend ) when they have a 5 or 6 hour journey in front of them , yes none .. taking off the best footballer to pull on a torquay shirt in the last 30 years , and put on , one of our crap players was the biggest joke he has done yet ,, and by Christ hes done several ,
with him in charge we have no chance whatsoever , next season, he couldn't manage a one man canoe, hes a cock....... he forgets he is playing a game with peoples lives , sack the **** tomorrow ,,,,,, give Geoff harrop ,the reigns he possesses all the skills dickhead doesn't .. what is all this shit about tonge grabbing the ball surely it is sorted who will take the penaltys before the match,, a full back who hasn't scored.!!! another **** joke .... it sais just how crap our forwards are .

Can someone list the attributes that CH has to be a good manager

Neal wrote:Can someone list the attributes that CH has to be a good manager

Errrrrrrr..... Popular with the Football Manager generation maybe??
No idea to be honest Neal. Maybe he will grow into the job?

To be fair here, Chris Hargreaves has arrived at the wrong club at the wrong time, and that indeed isn't his fault, he was offered the opportunity and who can blame him for taking it, a rookie learning his he went wasn't what was needed, but again being fair CH does deserve a chance over the summer to shake things up , rebuild the squad and see how things pan out.

For me personally the jury is out big style on CH, I don't think he has want it takes, and what I want CH to do now, is make me eat my words, and prove me wrong.

Unless the miracle of all miracles happens and we win our last five games, CH can make a good start with a miniscule retained list at the end of the season, and then emulate Paul Buckle by building his own squad and motivating it towards success in the Conference.

I doubt Hargreaves will be keen to be compared too closely with Buckle. That was a different time. Buckle enjoyed the support of a knowledgable DOF, and a sizeable budget compared to his direct opposition. Hargreaves will have no such luxuries.

hargreaves has had 16 games in charge and still doesnt know his starting eleven.how many times as he took some one out of the starting 11 and dropped them out of the squad altogether , also the same the other way out from the cold to a starting place.To erratic springs to mind,forget changing dugouts, forget warming up in different areas,forget the long ball, just pick your starting 11 play the ball on the ground, and STICK WITH IT.

He's probably been trying to give everyone a game so he can judge who to keep on his retained list for next season.
Not so easy, is it Chris..?? :~D

Hargreaves got the tactics just right today at Bristol Rovers with the players who were prepared to play for him. On this display no matter how the season ends CH knows what it needs to make us successful once again.
We played with attacking intent and our shape showed that with confidence the future's bright.