Goodbye Hargreaves

tommyg · Post by **tommyg** » 17 Mar 2015, 22:37

Something must change. I don't think Harrop is the answer but we cannot continue like this. Hargreaves doesn't know his best team or formation. His broken hand is a tell-tale sign that he's crumbling under the pressure.

hector · Post by **hector** » 17 Mar 2015, 22:40

brucie wrote:Yes that was the game - his team selection was excellent. We looked solid,played well and should have won but for an undeserved late equaliser.

So you are basing one game, 14 months ago, a game we didn't even win, as a strong argument for putting Harrop in charge?

Goodness, Hargreaves had a run of 10 games where the football was stunning, so on that basis we should be extending his contract. I just hope the board don't read your post, as that would be too easy and be a bit like the last two appointments...'it's what the fans want'...'he did ok in that one game'...'he'll be cheap'...etc

PlainmoorRoar · Post by **PlainmoorRoar** » 17 Mar 2015, 22:43

hector wrote: So you are basing one game, 14 months ago, a game we didn't even win, as a strong argument for putting Harrop in charge?

Goodness, Hargreaves had a run of 10 games where the football was stunning, so on that basis we should be extending his contract. I just hope the board don't read your post, as that would be too easy and be a bit like the last two appointments...'it's what the fans want'...'he did ok in that one game'...'he'll be cheap'...etc

#brucielogic

Phipsy · Post by **Phipsy** » 17 Mar 2015, 22:43

I have defended Hargreaves previously but not now.
His tactics are un fathomable .
To play three central defenders at the same time is sheer lunacy.
There is absolutely no creativity in the middle of the park?
The wing backs were not too bad but lack the pace to get in behind the opposing defence.tonight was as humiliation.
Marks out of 10.
Rice 6
Dawson 5
Ives 6
Downes 5
Pearce 1
Gugeon 5
Richards 4
Young 5
Ajala 6
Bowman 4
Campbell 6.

brucie · Post by **brucie** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:03

What I have clearly said was that I would prefer Harrop in charge rather than Hargreaves because he showed more tactical nous in that game because of the tactics he employed - which were far in excess of anything Hargreaves is currently coming up with.
Whether we won the game is irrelevant - we looked strong, should have won easily and were undone by a late freak goal.
On that basis I would prefer it if Harrop was in charge on Saturday because I reckon he would pick a team which had more chance of winning the game than Hargreaves would.

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:06

hector wrote: So you are basing one game, 14 months ago, a game we didn't even win, as a strong argument for putting Harrop in charge?

Goodness, Hargreaves had a run of 10 games where the football was stunning, so on that basis we should be extending his contract. I just hope the board don't read your post, as that would be too easy and be a bit like the last two appointments...'it's what the fans want'...'he did ok in that one game'...'he'll be cheap'...etc

Face facts the club is in the shit and have got no money Harrop is the only person within the club able to perhaps put them back on track. The formation he played the only time he was in charge suited the players so I think he has some idea of how to pick a side plus he's got a sense of humour which a manager of this club needs. Hargreaves has knocked the confidence out of the side by swapping and changing.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:13

Yet you keep harping on about changing the team yourself. Strange ........

supergulls · Post by **supergulls** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:22

Harrop didn't even pick the team that day, the first thing he did was sit down with manse and nico and he asked them how they should play. They told him to recall Lathrope from aldershot and play the diamond that had served so well under Ling which is what he did. Did he pick the team most definitely not but he put the names on the team sheet and took the applause

arcadia · Post by **arcadia** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:23

Southampton Gull wrote:Yet you keep harping on about changing the team yourself. Strange ........

Only for what I believe in.

Your just a wind up merchant time for bed now nesting time!

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 17 Mar 2015, 23:27

So you wouldn't change the team then?

hector · Post by **hector** » 18 Mar 2015, 06:41

I think what we are seeing from Hargreaves is what we were seeing last season, when the team chopped and changed around so much because he a) didn't know his best team or b) whatever side he put out, he was unable to fashion any sort of performance from them or c) both.

It felt that, during that early run in September, that he finally hit upon a line-up and formula that worked for this group of players but any semblance of that has long gone now, and we are back to the rather clueless line-ups and formations with this side, that characterised the performances last year, yet we are a division lower and getting spanked by pub teams.

Dave_Pougher · Post by **Dave_Pougher** » 18 Mar 2015, 08:14

First time in over 40 yrs I have not thought about attending, listened or looked out for the result. I've been on the other side of the world previously and done my best to listen or at least tried my damnedest to updates on the score.

Thanks Chris, Bill (sorry Bill, I take that back, you've wanted this all along) Simon and absent, recently reigned board members your all equally to blame for the demise of my passion.

Post by **Southampton Gull** » 18 Mar 2015, 08:14

It is almost identical as Hector says, the common denominator being the players from both campaigns, are they affecting the younger players brought in by Hargreaves or is it that Hargreaves is such a bad manager?
Hargreaves has brought in some good youngsters and most of them have been good signings. The downside is that younger players suffer dips in form more regularly than senior players yet I can't rid myself of the feeling that it's the senior players who are letting everyone down.

Rather than call the line-ups clueless though, I imagine the manager is searching for a performance from the squad that isn't forthcoming, some blame him entirely for that but I'm not so sure.

CP Gull · Post by **CP Gull** » 18 Mar 2015, 08:35

The thing is Dave, we are only really talking about Downes and Pearce now aren't we? For all his failings, I don't see Downes as a disruptive type, and likewise with Pearce - to me, he just doesn't look like his heart is in it anymore, a shadow of the player he once was. As for the rest, well Hawley was moved on, Tonge seems finished and hasn't featured for a long time, Benyon is out on loan and these days Harding can't even make the subs bench!

No doubt about it these players have been a big part of the problem - and have taken up a disproportionate amount of Hargreaves budget. For me, he had two choices at the start of the season when he realised that moving these guys on was going to be extremely difficult. He could have, as some would advocate, have completely frozen these guys out, forced them to train with the kids and made their lives hell in the hope that they would move on, or he could have embraced them in the team, made it clear that they still might have a future at the club (and more importantly for them in the game) and used their services while he still had them.

Unfortunately, he has done neither one or the other, he has used these experienced pros (with the exception of Downes) sparingly in the main. Pearce has been fairly regular but often dropped, Tonge was a regular until he found someone better (Berry) and Harding, Benyon and Hawley early on have hardly ever been given a chance despite all picking up very decent wages!

Richinns · Post by **Richinns** » 18 Mar 2015, 08:54

Truth told - on the face of it he should lose his job but as indicated by SG above the problems at TQ1 run far deeper than the performance of a rookie manager this season.
Last night was desperate and it was a desperate formation that clearly backfired. But that is where we are with this crop of players. The many recent games which have ended so badly for us (where CH stuck to his preferred formation) has forced his hand to try something radical to stop the fall.
The young players were good players for this division in the early stages of the season and dragged the club into the automatic promotion fight. There were some great performances which now seem a million miles away.
However - the confidence has gone and the darkness (which was here before Hargreaves arrival) has re-appeared over the club. Young players massively out of form and the senior pro's (not signed but CH) who got us relegated out the league (who have given up along time ago) has created this new low. Yes - Hargreaves needs to be blamed to a certain extent for not being able to re-find the confidence and form of 'his' signings but for me you need to address other situations before you can wholly blame him for our current reality.
We need to get to the point of safety (I realise there is a danger to this way of thinking on current form), lose the dead wood from the squad and rebuild with fresh faces. We also need to look at ourselves as destructive fanbase and shoulder some of the responsibility as truly some 'fans' have been nothing short of a poison in an already foul tasting recipe. Essentially in all of this we need to hope the rot on the board are replaced with people who can push the club forward - instead of dragging it further down the dark hole.
As said above - desperate times but one man is not to blame and doing so is the easy option and will fix nothing.

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