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Regiment wrote: slightly contradictory there mate. you don't want to hear our opinions on Buckle, but continue to visit our forum, and try to defend him, and criticise us, when you do the same with regard to trollope. so we shouldn't criticise buckle, while you criticise trollope ?? i'm confused what you're really trying to say on this one ?? but i do agree you get a better idea of what managers/players etc are capable of, when it really matters. in this case, we're all in the same boat, new manager, new players, decent pre-season, optimistic for the coming season. we'll find out in 46 games time.

I was referring to the TUFC fans we've had on our forums telling us all Buckles failing's, fair enough not to like the guy as a person but cannot argue against his record. Hopefully he can take the next step with a bigger budget, but who knows it may all go pear shaped.

I and many other fans have met the guy at the funday and nobody has a bad word to say about him.

I've seen a number of good pre season and fantastic looking players only to start the season looking like a bunch of no-hopes. everyones optimistic before a new season but the majority will end up disappointed come May.

Gashead1979 wrote:
I've seen a number of good pre season and fantastic looking players only to start the season looking like a bunch of no-hopes. everyones optimistic before a new season but the majority will end up disappointed come May.

Here's hoping, come May, this is the most aptly prophetic statement.

Matt.

ferrarilover wrote: That is completely false logic. We are back to one of the first things I said. If one man has a car accident and kills his passenger, does this mean that all men are liable to have fatal car accidents? No, absolutely not.

Matt.

All im saying is that you cant say Ling is a good manager purely on the fact he won one promotion to L1 and steadied them at midtable (well that was until he finally left and they were 21st??).

Personally i've stated you cant judge how a new manager will perform at any 1 club, any guesswork is irrelevant. Thats why its so difficult for boards to appoint the right manager.

Gashead1979 wrote:

All im saying is that you cant say Ling is a good manager purely on the fact he won one promotion to L1 and steadied them at midtable (well that was until he finally left and they were 21st??).

Personally i've stated you cant judge how a new manager will perform at any 1 club, any guesswork is irrelevant. Thats why its so difficult for boards to appoint the right manager.

But then my point i said earlier, your all calling Buckle a good manager and he took us from the conference to league 2. Whats the difference?
Any manager is a risk and we all hope for our clubs sakes that the choice pays off. But as it stands im very happy where the Torquay are right now and im pretty sure you are about rovers too

Brett - you have nine subs!

I want to see five only from now on!

Gashead1979 wrote: I was referring to the TUFC fans we've had on our forums telling us all Buckles failing's, fair enough not to like the guy as a person but cannot argue against his record. Hopefully he can take the next step with a bigger budget, but who knows it may all go pear shaped.

I and many other fans have met the guy at the funday and nobody has a bad word to say about him.

fair enough. i can assure you with regard to buckle, it's not a case if sour grapes at our end. the majority here, i believe, didn't like the guy, whether it be because of his ability, or his personality - or both. but of course, such is human nature, these things only come out after the event, as it were.

naturally he's got to come into the new job and make the right impressions, as anyone going into a new job would, and we're equally as impressed with Ling, despite the opinions from his past employer's fans to the contrary.

the true test for all is not now, and will not be while things are going well, but when they're not. i would say that might give you more indication of the buckle we know, but similarly, the CUFC fans will say the same of Ling no doubt.

it's a complicated old web ain't it ?? is it evolution or revolution !??!

Richinns wrote:Brett - you have nine subs!

I want to see five only from now on!

Dam i have been found out, dont take points off me

To save this going on forever, I'm going to ask our Rovers supporting 'friend' to re-read the representations I have already made regards ML and try his hardest to understand what I am saying. If he is incapable or unwilling, then that is his loss, if he is capable, then he needs to stop making the same erroneous point, over and over again.

Matt.

The thing that strikes me here after reading the last few pages is that while Gashead1979 is at last participating in a correct manner he's missing the point that makes his posts contradictory.

He mentions Buckles record and says we cant fault him because of that yet fails to realise that he took a side out of the conference and failed to get them out of League Two in two seasons while Ling took Orient out of League Two, had them operating at the top of League One for a while before tailing off.

So, how come we can't fault Buckles record yet can't say Ling is a good manager?

We can all remember Buckle getting tactically hammered by Tisdale in the BSP semi-final resulting in that 4-1 drubbing at home, this after being 2-0 up on aggregate, we can all remember Pat Evans doing the same thing to him a few times, we've gone 4 seasons without a specialist right-back or left-winger and then low and behold Martin Ling comes in and as Fonda mentions he swaps Mansell with Oastler and cures two problem areas in one foul swoop and then goes out and signs Morris to fill the left flank. Those two positions have probably been written about on here more than any other subject for the past 4 years yet nothing was ever done about it.

To Rovers fans I'd say they should reserve their judgement on Buckle until they face some real important games and to Cambridge fans I'd say that so far Ling has addressed a lot of problems already that we've waited 4 seasons to see fixed and I personally love the way we're trying to play football. A lot of Greek fans that saw us demolish their full-strength first team have been very complimentary about how we played and while only a PSF you can only beat what's in front of you, we did that handsomely, to Bristol City too. Am I optimistic? Yes, very much so. Am I missing Buckle? You've got to be kidding. I've already heard stories from around the Club that everyone is enjoying going to work again, that says it all.

Southampton Gull wrote:The thing that strikes me here after reading the last few pages is that while Gashead1979 is at last participating in a correct manner he's missing the point that makes his posts contradictory.

He mentions Buckles record and says we cant fault him because of that yet fails to realise that he took a side out of the conference and failed to get them out of League Two in two seasons while Ling took Orient out of League Two, had them operating at the top of League One for a while before tailing off.

So, how come we can't fault Buckles record yet can't say Ling is a good manager?

We can all remember Buckle getting tactically hammered by Tisdale in the BSP semi-final resulting in that 4-1 drubbing at home, this after being 2-0 up on aggregate, we can all remember Pat Evans doing the same thing to him a few times, we've gone 4 seasons without a specialist right-back or left-winger and then low and behold Martin Ling comes in and as Fonda mentions he swaps Mansell with Oastler and cures two problem areas in one foul swoop and then goes out and signs Morris to fill the left flank. Those two positions have probably been written about on here more than any other subject for the past 4 years yet nothing was ever done about it.

To Rovers fans I'd say they should reserve their judgement on Buckle until they face some real important games and to Cambridge fans I'd say that so far Ling has addressed a lot of problems already that we've waited 4 seasons to see fixed and I personally love the way we're trying to play football. A lot of Greek fans that saw us demolish their full-strength first team have been very complimentary about how we played and while only a PSF you can only beat what's in front of you, we did that handsomely, to Bristol City too. Am I optimistic? Yes, very much so. Am I missing Buckle? You've got to be kidding. I've already heard stories from around the Club that everyone is enjoying going to work again, that says it all.

I said you can't fault him considering he took a side with 3 contracted players (?) in the BSP and got you close to L1, but didnt say you had to admit he was a good manager

Nobody realistically is going to have a season winning everything and everything going well, everyone has bad patches and makes wrong decisions, if they didnt players and managers would be managing a lot higher than basement level....hindsight is wonderful eh?

The point ferrari is missing is that many managers can win a promotion, it's easier to do in L2, but it doesnt make them a good manager. I said before when we got the last play off spot and won promotion in 2007 we were awful for almost 2/3 of it.

As far as Ling is concerned he seemed to be heading downwards in his career until he got the job at Torquay, so your board must see something in him, but like I said there are no guarantees especially in football, thats what makes it a great game.

I said you said we can't fault him, but if we can't fault him then by definition he's a good manager, no?

As for Ling, he's used his time away from managing to good effect. He obviously had a good idea of the type of players he would look at if he got back into management and that helped us to get a very good goalkeeper in and some good players at this level for no money. Sometimes things aren't as they appear to an outsider, Buckle had big games while he was here, lost to Exeter in the play-offs, lost to Ebbsfleet at Wembley, lost to Crawley at home in the cup which cost us a dream tie with Man Ure, lost to Stevenage at Wembley but did manage to beat a poor Cambridge side at Wembley. Like I said, wait until you have some big games, that's when the penny will start to drop.

Southampton Gull wrote: Like I said, wait until you have some big games, that's when the penny will start to drop.

From what I've heard from the club with no roof they don't regard any games as big games particularly in League 2

Can i summarise...? Rovers think Buckle is the new Messiah, we think him nothing more than a very naughty boy. We're very satisfied with they way Ling has started, Cambridge would have us believe it won't last. And that's it. After 31 pages, is anyone else getting the idea there isn't going to be any change in those opinions for a little while yet? There aren't going to be any sudden concessions. I can't see a widespread moment of clarity where we all suddenly say 'well, as you've now said the same thing 700 times, i now believe it'. Shall we leave it there then? Maybe we could revist this in a couple of months time, you know, when some football has been played?

Fonda wrote:Can i summarise...? Rovers think Buckle is the new Messiah, we're confident they're wrong. We very satisfied with they way Ling has started, Cambridge would have us believe it won't last. And that's it. After 31 pages, is anyone else getting the idea there isn't going to be any change in those opinions for a little while yet? There aren't going to be any sudden concessions. I can't see a widespread moment of clarity where we all suddenly say 'well, as you've now said the same thing 700 times, i suddenly believe it'. Shall we leave it there then? Maybe we could revist this in a couple of months time, you know, when some football has been played?

HUZZAH!

stevegull wrote: HUZZAH!

B**gger the reply to your very sensible post Fonda has taken it to 32 pages! I would bet that BRFC and CUFC fans will even find something to argue about in your post and that we will have reached 40 pages by kick off time!