TorquayFans.com | Torquay United Fans Forum

Apart from the not bothering to go bit, I agree with brucie.

ferrarilover wrote:But can anyone actually point out these goals that we've conceded for having Rice rather than Poke? Dave said they exist, but no one has actually evidenced it yet. I've got all the FLSs on my Sky Plus (it's not deliberate, I'm just enormously forgetful), so pick me a game and a goal and we'll have a look.

Matt.

Sorry old boy; too busy having a life to assist your understanding on this one. Rest assured that we perceptive types can appreciate the difference between a quality pro keeper and a local boy done good.

nickbrod wrote: For me I agree with David Thomas, our season will be defined over the coming five games.

Reading between the lines in Dave Thomas summing up, as well as our season being defined over the coming five games, Knill's season will also be .........

tomogull wrote: Reading between the lines in Dave Thomas summing up, as well as our season being defined over the coming five games, Knill's season will also be .........

Without wanting to take this down the 'should Knill be sacked' route, if our season is defined negatively over the next 5 games, and then Knill gets the chop, then the latter will have come FAR too late.

Agree with Brucie re - the defence, I would also make changes further forward. For me Mansell has been hiding behind the Captain's armband for far too long which has been to the detriment of the team. IMO he needs to look for pastures new like his old mate. In an ideal world he would swap places with Lathrope at Hereford but of course there's no chance of that happening. Our last two managers have shown far too much respect to the number of appearances a player has and their stature at the club rather than whether they actually good enough. Buckle never had this problem even though it resulted in numerous spats! I would go with the following:

Poke
O'Connor Downes(c) Pearce Cruise
Chappell Mozika Craig Bodin
Benyon Marquis/Stockley

Alternatively, I remember in Buckle's day Benyon despite his size operated very effectively as a lone striker due to his ability to run the channels and hold the ball up. In recent games he's looked about the only player up for the fight - we could also go 4-5-1 and flood the midfield. Ideally I'd have Lathrope back for this to replace Mansell.

jonnyfive wrote: Sorry old boy; too busy having a life to assist your understanding on this one. Rest assured that we perceptive types can appreciate the difference between a quality pro keeper and a local boy done good.

if that's how you view the difference between Poke and Rice then you are more warped than Knill. There is very little between the two of them and Rice is in possession of the shirt so it's his to keep or lose, he's done absolutely nothing to warrant being dropped.

royalgull wrote: if that's how you view the difference between Poke and Rice then you are more warped than Knill. There is very little between the two of them and Rice is in possession of the shirt so it's his to keep or lose, he's done absolutely nothing to warrant being dropped.

totally agree.

obviously, some (sad) posters have had enough knill bashing and are now returning to the "old favourite" Martin Rice.

well, hes the last player that should receive any grief.

Playing devils advocate for a minute, I can see both sides to the keeper debate.

Rice is in the side, he's performed admirably, and has done absolutely nothing to warrant being dropped.

Poke is probably the better keeper, and bringing him into the side, COULD, help our defence, who may collectively not have as much confidence with Rice behind them.

I'm not saying which option is right, but we're in a difficult position, and we're all pushing for changes around the pitch. If Poke plays, doesn't have a save to make, but we win, isn't that what we're after?

brucie wrote:Probably our biggest game of the season. I was up for going to this one because it really is a must win game. Lose this one and we will be cut well and truly adrift. However I cannot face the round trip with Knill still in charge.
We shouldn't be quaking in our boots over playing Southend. If you look through our squad we shouldn't be doing as badly as we are with the players that we have got so the blame falls firmly at the feet of the manager.
The debate over Poke or Rice goes on but really Knill has to try something different because what he has been trying isn't working - we are leaking goals like they are going out of fashion.
Knill should bring back Pearce at centre half and Poke in goal - tough on Rice but Poke is a better keeper.
O'Connor apparently isn't a full back but played 50 games there for Burton and plays in that position for the Irish team. He is twice as quick as Tonge and needs to be given a go there. Pearce is too good a player to be left out as is Poke and O'Connor is better than Tonge, simple as that.

Agree with most of the post, but the highlighted bit is the same message I tried to get across, for me Rice does not deserve to be dropped nor does Tonge. However you're spot on, we do have to try something different, often a freshen up can be the very thing that sparks the team, if we carry rolling on blindly from match to match, we're going down for sure, and there will be no coming back from it a second time, there is nobody to bankroll us back like last time.

nickfrench82 wrote:Playing devils advocate for a minute, I can see both sides to the keeper debate.

Rice is in the side, he's performed admirably, and has done absolutely nothing to warrant being dropped.

Poke is probably the better keeper, and bringing him into the side, COULD, help our defence, who may collectively not have as much confidence with Rice behind them.

I'm not saying which option is right, but we're in a difficult position, and we're all pushing for changes around the pitch. If Poke plays, doesn't have a save to make, but we win, isn't that what we're after?

Yep you're right Nick. As said I've been lucky enough to see a heck of lot of professional goalkeeper coaching, one thing you hear constantly drummed into younger keepers is, it's not about the glory saves for a keeper, it's about not having the shot to save in the first place.

Not saying that Martin Rice isn't a good communicator on the pitch, however what can make the difference between keepers is having the ability to get the information out early, clearly with out hesitation, and importantly the right information out to his defenders.

Without wanting to take this down the 'should Knill be sacked' route, if our season is defined negatively over the next 5 games, and then Knill gets the chop, then the latter will have come FAR too late.

Spot on. This is it now The board have entrusted Alan to get us out of this whether by choice or not but we're stuck with him now and these next 5 or 6 games IMO will determine whether we go down or not and whether or not the decision to keep Knill was the correct one. If it all goes wrong over Christmas then there is really no point in sacking him in the New Year because we'll already be well cut adrift. The time to do it was these last 2 weeks but it wasn't done. Now we just have to wait and see if Knill can turn our form around in 6 games. If he can't, and there is no basis to think that he can, then we need a major miracle in the New Year and have to suddenly go on a run of title winning form.

The Southend game on Saturday is probably our most important of the month in all honesty because we've had a break. If we come back with yet another stinker and a loss then the Christmas games become huge challenges for both the players AND the fans who might decide to keep their cash in their pockets over Christmas and also not pay for the privilege of being depressed. In addition to this then it's not inconceivable that going into the Daggers game that we could actually BE 5 points adrift and with the goal difference technically 6 points. Bury with new gaffer Flitcroft have an winnable game at home to Northampton, Accy host Exeter and Brizzle go to Morecambe.

A win and then we're in business. An absolute critical point in the season this game for me.

For what it's worth, my team for Saturday would be.....

Poke

Tonge, Downes, O'Connor, Cruise

Mozika, Mansell, Craig

Chapell Bodin

Benyon

--------------------Rice
---------Oconnor Pearce Downes
Tonge------------------------------------Cruise
---------Craig Mansell Chappell(?)
------------Stockley Marquis

Forget Stockley, he's out injured and gone back to Bournemouth for treatment. Just one thing after another!
Maybe Benyon gets to start and show Southend what they missed?!

Sorry guys but i cant see us winning this one, HOWEVER i fancy us to pick up points from the Daggers and the big 3 after that which should hopefully pull us back up into contention for survival and stop us getting cut off at the bottom. Just hoping for a positive performance we can build on tomorrow and who knows? a draw would be great to be fair and would set us up nicely for Daggers, Bristol, Exeter and Plymouth!

Big month no doubt!