Goodbye Football League....Hello Conference

[Enzo]

Only one hope!

Mr Knill (who we sacked) got 7 points from his last 5 games with us (easily enough to stay up).

Our new manager (who is still here) has got 3 points from his last 5 games, and has taken us from the 1 point from safety we were when he stepped in to 8 points from safety.

:

Stef - you have made the point about Knill's last 5 games several times. Whilst I fully understand your frustration at the appointment of a rookie, I can't understand this line about Knill that you keep peddling with selective stats. We all wanted an experienced fire fighter to work with CH in the hope that he could take over next season - rather in the way that Neil Warnock kept us up and brought in Don O' in the process with the next season in mind. Unfortunately, that was not possible / wanted.

What is the fascination with Knill? I watched some absolute dross under - as bad as anything I can remember over the last 30 years. I'm thinking York at home, Oxford at home, Bradford at home last year - I could go on. Surely Ling is more deserving of this support?

If my rough maths are correct Knill left after 25 games when we had 22 points - an average of 0.88 per game. Relegation form.

I was actually quite surprised when so many fans were so keen on him after his period last year - 16 points from 14 games. 1.14 per game with pro rata final amount of 52. Relegation struggle form, and worse than Lings points return last season. Based on this points return there was no justification for replacing Ling with Knill based on football reasons, although I accept that this was not 'his team'.

There are other factors where Knill may feel agrieved - did he have his budget cut? why did the board not support him in the way that they have (seemingly) supported CH? Fair points. I can only presume that the board looked at a points return of 22 from 25 games and didn't feel confident in backing Knill - you obviously would have after the 7 poins from the last 5, but after the gutless peformances over Christmas against Rovers, City and Plymouth can you really blame the board in not trusting him with extra money?? Have any of his signings other than Pearce impressed you. Take your dislike of CH out of the equation and you may see that Knill was awful. Some helpful poster recently put up a comparison of our points return over the last calender year and it compared with the awful W*bb era. That is how bad it has been - are you absolving Knill of any blame for that?

We all get your point about CH - We are all frustrated that the club took a romantic punt on a rookie when other managers were available, but Knill will still go down as one of our worst ever managers. When taking his overall record can you really present any other view?

To an ignorant outsider like me, the board have really taken their eye off the ball over the last couple of years. This season had a whiff of non-league right from Thea's dreadful interview at the very start. We still owe them an awful lot and they are the only ones prepared to put their money where their mouths are so for all their cock ups I can't get too worked up about them.

Thanks

[okehampton gull]

any bloke who wears a hair band to play football is usually a TIT, and yes he is a big TIT.he coudnt run the canteen , no **** would know when they were working .

[okehampton gull]

even the commentators couldn't believe he took stockley off today,,,, oh and why did he play Thompson on Tuesday , and then ,,,,,,,,,, yes you've guessed hes left out of the squad,,,, good . who the **** will play next Saturday ,,, god only knows cause Hargreaves and his totally useless side kick, wont have a **** clue till they put the names in a hat ,,, he is such a **** ,he might play himself... or that mate of his he signed jan 1st who was **** injured ,,,, Thea he is a piss taker,,,, and yes he has signed another **** Bournemouth player ,,, and guess what he is **** injured as well ,,,,,, sack the asshole now ,,,,,

[AlexGulls]

Talk about over reactions. Give Hargreaves a chance to to get his own side in rather than judge him on the dross Knill left him with. Were not winning games so he may as well rotate the squad and see who is worth keeping next season...Which isn't many of them.

[hector]

Stef - you have made the point about Knill's last 5 games several times. Whilst I fully understand your frustration at the appointment of a rookie, I can't understand this line about Knill that you keep peddling with selective stats. We all wanted an experienced fire fighter to work with CH in the hope that he could take over next season - rather in the way that Neil Warnock kept us up and brought in Don O' in the process with the next season in mind. Unfortunately, that was not possible / wanted.

What is the fascination with Knill? I watched some absolute dross under - as bad as anything I can remember over the last 30 years. I'm thinking York at home, Oxford at home, Bradford at home last year - I could go on. Surely Ling is more deserving of this support?

If my rough maths are correct Knill left after 25 games when we had 22 points - an average of 0.88 per game. Relegation form.

I was actually quite surprised when so many fans were so keen on him after his period last year - 16 points from 14 games. 1.14 per game with pro rata final amount of 52. Relegation struggle form, and worse than Lings points return last season. Based on this points return there was no justification for replacing Ling with Knill based on football reasons, although I accept that this was not 'his team'.

There are other factors where Knill may feel agrieved - did he have his budget cut? why did the board not support him in the way that they have (seemingly) supported CH? Fair points. I can only presume that the board looked at a points return of 22 from 25 games and didn't feel confident in backing Knill - you obviously would have after the 7 poins from the last 5, but after the gutless peformances over Christmas against Rovers, City and Plymouth can you really blame the board in not trusting him with extra money?? Have any of his signings other than Pearce impressed you. Take your dislike of CH out of the equation and you may see that Knill was awful. Some helpful poster recently put up a comparison of our points return over the last calender year and it compared with the awful W*bb era. That is how bad it has been - are you absolving Knill of any blame for that?

We all get your point about CH - We are all frustrated that the club took a romantic punt on a rookie when other managers were available, but Knill will still go down as one of our worst ever managers. When taking his overall record can you really present any other view?

To an ignorant outsider like me, the board have really taken their eye off the ball over the last couple of years. This season had a whiff of non-league right from Thea's dreadful interview at the very start. We still owe them an awful lot and they are the only ones prepared to put their money where their mouths are so for all their cock ups I can't get too worked up about them.

Thanks

An excellent post. You probably won't convince Stefano, who would rather focus on five hand-picked games than look at the whole picture of Knill;s reign. Stefano's selective use of statistics concerning Knill's reign, is a bit like basing future prospects of a team, who score a consolation goal in a 5-1 defeat in the 76th minute, on the fact that for the last 25 minutes they scored more goals than the opposition and therefore are surely about to embark on a winning run.

Sadly, CH has proved to be no better but I suppose he was not left the tools. Knill's most successful period with us, was when he had Martin Ling's team. When he built his own, it was an unmitigated disaster. Hargreaves did not inherit as good a team as Knill, even though the one that Ling left behind, people felt was in need of improvement.

If only the club had gone through a thorough and professional recruitment process a year ago.

Sadly, it seems to be that the bank of goodwill for Hargreaves has already run dry, it would appear - his fledgling managerial career could be over, almost as soon as it has started - although he needs a chance to build his own team but based on his constant chopping and changing, signing players that he then doesn't play, who knows what is going to happen next season?

It is only Mathematics that is keeping us up now, and when Mourinho suggests it is impossible for Chelsea to win the title, even when they are a point clear because he has looked at the likely maths of other fixtures, I wonder what he would say about our chances.

6 games left, 8 points required to overhaul Wycombe, therefore 3 wins and they have to lose 3 games and then match their results in the other three, oh, and their next three games are Dagenham (h), Newport (a), Northampton (h), the 3rd of that run, surely meaning even Maths cannot save us as one of our rivals will be picking up points in that game at least, while not exactly a testing run for Wycombe.

Lose our next two games (Scunthorpe & Bristol Rovers) which is likely, and it could all be mathematically over by then, if Wycombe beat Dagenham and then Newport.

I partly hope it is, as my fear previously was that we would be relegated when we lose to Exeter on Easter Monday, I'd much rather already be down by then, than give them the pleasure of relegating us. Sadly, Exeter's two recent wins, in my view, have saved them and it will be us and Northampton who go down, despite Stefano's assertion that Knill - in his cone collecting role - has performed a minor miracle there.

[hector]

Just looking at the Conference South/North tables - any of these teams could be amongst our opposition - all have a chance of the play-offs at least...

Eastleigh
Bromley
Sutton United
Ebbsfleet United
Dover Athletic
Havant & Waterlooville
Bath City
Eastbourne Borough
Concord Rangers

North Ferriby United
AFC Telford United
Altrincham
Hednesford Town
Boston United
Harrogate Town
Brackley Town
Guiesley
Solihull Moors

...which one of those will be the next Farsley Celtic?

[tktufc91]

Any of those in the first list I would love. All nice and short trips (at least for me at least)

[tufcbrett]

Are we getting a new shirt for the new season in the conference? Is our yellow and white stripe for one season?

Lets be honest it maybe the best way for the club to get any money if season tickets will be down. Get us back to yellow and blue, put together a team who want to play in it. Do something called win games and were all be happy again.

[AustrianAndyGull]

IMO Knill would have taken us down for sure and Hargreaves has simply taken over at the wheel but the brakes still don't work with a huge cliff the size of Beachy Head fast approaching with a big sign on it saying, 'KEEP OFF THE CLIFF EDGE!! CONFERENCE CLUBS ALLOWED ONLY!!!!'. One a vastly experienced manager at this level and one a rookie. Both completely clueless.

I'm just looking to see who comes up and who goes down from the non league divisions.

I want Cobblers to come down with us.

I want Braintree or Barnet to make a run into the play offs and go up with Luton and I want Aldershot and Dartford to drop. Hyde and Tamworth already have.

I want North Ferriby to come out of conference north with Harrogate Town or Boston United and from conference south it doesn't really matter to me as they are all bloody miles away. Bath City would be good though.

[frenchgull]

I would like to thank all the board for their help but you have failed.Back when we first went into the conference the new owners seemed full of life and ideas but since ,a couple of chairmen have passed the buck to leave Mrs Bristow holding the very hot potato,to me not a very chivorus decision taken by our other board members.I suppose Mrs Bristow is a Torquay United fan but like others I suspect she would rather be at home with her grand children enjoying a quiet life she richly deserves but feels obligated to stay. If I were her I would settle any outstanding debts and leg it leaving the rest of our estimed board to put their money where their mouths are and get Torquay out of the mess its in.Before the member from east Devon writes to tell me the board should never be ridiculed can I just remind him that they have failed in every aspect and in retail parlence are not fit for purpose.I can not think of anybody who would put money into Torquay,why would Marks and Spencer buy Arkwrights,there is no reason so without any backing of note we will,as I predicted last November,find our level in conference south unless of course Austrian Andy wins the Eurolotto.

[AustrianAndyGull]

Talk about over reactions. Give Hargreaves a chance to to get his own side in rather than judge him on the dross Knill left him with. Were not winning games so he may as well rotate the squad and see who is worth keeping next season...Which isn't many of them.

Alex, I fully get where you are coming from and in essence I totally agree. Hargreaves has been left with a load of waste only suitable for landfill and not for playing football and his hands have been tied to a certain extent having this has the major problem. There isn't much he can do about improving players and making them into world beaters all of a sudden.

My issue is that he at the very least needs to give it a try and this is where he falls down IMO. It seems that both CH and the fans have accepted that our playing staff is not very good. That's fine, but what can we do about it and what do we TRY and do about it moving forward are my questions? Questions that have not yet been anywhere near to being answered by CH and his 'conservative' approach to what is an almost impossible situation now given this approach.

All he can do is try and make as good as damn it the best of what he can with what he has to work with and it just has not been acceptable. You've been on some long trips these past few months Alex and you've identified some problems that perhaps CH could try and address with a bit of common sense yet we're still in the same boat now having not seen any of these attempts at salvation implemented. That is the worry for me for next season if we get into another rut. I don't actually believe CH has what it takes to make a difference.

I will give CH a chance but I also think it is reasonable of fans to express their concerns now about him as boss next season should they see fit. I'm sure many like myself take on board the job he has been left, the players he has been left with and also take into account his inexperience and whilst we sympathise and account for this, I myself cannot account for exiting the football league having not attempted absolutely everything and having exhausted every avenue open to Chris. This is my issue, we're going down with a whimper having not even tried all the locks. It's just not on IMO and no matter what experience you have as a manager, this is so obvious that I find it difficult to comprehend why CH wouldn't just throw kitchen sinks at the problem. Most others would without any prior knowledge of management.

Yes once Chris gets his own set of players and his own way of playing then we can judge him for better or worse but for now at least I think we can express concern based on what has been presented to us overall. Let's not forget he has had 3 months worth of games in order to look at players and bring about improvements and although he has gained a few wins, overall the football has actually worsened on a weekly basis to the point where we don't know anymore how to play a game of football with a clear gameplan.

I respect your views Alex and you are right but I hope you can see where I'm coming from and not being unrealistic or unreasonable about CH.

[AustrianAndyGull]

I'm not sure if this is an appropriate example but Palace beat Chelsea yesterday despite having players nowhere near good enough to have done so. It happened. Why? Because of desire, commitment and a gameplan. Ok so such a simplistic view of management isn't going to work EVERY week but if it gets enough results to survive then it's done the job. Obviously Pulis is very experienced and CH isn't but it was the kind of performance that we have needed to emulate this season and haven't done so. The players have belief and a never say die attitude and the manager uses his motivational skills and the basics to get a side well drilled and committed to the cause. Meanwhile.....................

If they can do it then why do we lose every week AND play shit AND look like we're not even interested?

[stefano]

An excellent post. You probably won't convince Stefano, who would rather focus on five hand-picked games than look at the whole picture of Knill;s reign.. drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone drone

There you go again! The 'last 5 games' IS NOT selective. It is used by forecasters of all sports throughout the World to illustrate current form. The only thing you got right in your as usual verbose post was that Enzo did an excellent post. Jackanory Jackanory

[hector]

There you go again! The 'last 5 games' IS NOT selective. It is used by forecasters of all sports throughout the World to illustrate current form. The only thing you got right in your as usual verbose post was that Enzo did an excellent post. Jackanory Jackanory

It IS selective when you choose to ignore the other 40 odd games. Anyway, Stefano, I don't think you are going to convince anyone of the merits of Alan Knill, other than your reflection, and I suspect, even he may disagree with you!!!

[stefano]

It IS selective when you choose to ignore the other 40 odd games. Anyway, Stefano, I don't think you are going to convince anyone of the merits of Alan Knill, other than your reflection, and I suspect, even he may disagree with you!!!

You are never going to get it are you? I don't know how I would have got through these last few depressing months without you!